The Return of the most infamous HB thread of all time... :D

[Tishimself]

Fuck the speed, its irrelevant, and you DO NOT NEED SOME TOP SPEED to have the plane take off. You are beginning to sound like him. He already told you, the treadmills top speed match the plane's. Well duh, of course he did. But it still DOES NOT MATTER!!! That's not whats play here. Go read snoc's post over again, and think about you or a car or a top fuel dragster in a treadmill, and then an airplane. Then you MIGHT get it. MIGHT is the operative word here. I am not counting on it though.

Don't yell at me. This example is all about Newton's third law. AS long as the wheels of the plane are turning faster than the treadmill, it will take off. When the two numbers match, it will not move forward. Get over it. Planes use air to grab a hold of, cars use the road. Two completely different scenarios. One does not equivocate to the other.

[2manymustangs]

There is no set speed for the treadmill. It can go as fast as it needs to in order to counter any forward movement of the plane. Remember, the moment the wheels start turning faster than the treadmill, the plane will move, once they are spinning at the same speed, the plane will stop. Since the wheels will not ever be able to spin faster than the treadmill, the plane can not move. As for what it represents. Nothing. Its just the instrument used to illustrate this version of the question.

THRUST is going to move the plane foward (either jet or SCREWING ITSELF through the air)... I'm just trying to find out how fast you have the plane going backwards on the pretend treadmill... I wanna know how long (not IF but WHEN) it will take me to lift off as soon as I start making thrust, without any thrust the wheels are glued to the treadmill belt just like the aero-plane is and she is going backwards...

[Tishimself]

THRUST is going to move the plane foward (either jet or SCREWING ITSELF through the air)... I'm just trying to find out how fast you have the plane going backwards on the pretend treadmill... I wanna know how long (not IF but WHEN) it will take me to lift off as soon as I start making thrust, without any thrust the wheels are glued to the treadmill belt just like the aero-plane is and she is going backwards...

Let's say for the sake of argument, that the engines on a jet propel it forward at 800 miles per hour (I have no idea how fast they really go, but bear with me here). Now imagine that the plane is sitting on a really long conveyor belt. Both the belt and the plane are stationary, and the jet engines are off. Now, imagine that the conveyor belt starts moving at 800 mph. Seeing that the plane's engines are off, the plane gets dragged backward at 800 mph by the belt.

Now, if the pilot fires up those engines, that 800 mph of force is only going to counteract the backwards-moving conveyor belt, right? 800 mph in one direction less 800 mph in the other direction equals 0 mph. So, the plane sits stationary as the conveyor belt goes by beneath it.

If the plane isn't moving, then the air isn't moving above and beneath the wing at the required 800 mph, thus creating no lift. And that's that.

[niceguyeddie]

This was a great thread! It was my favorite next to "GOD IS FAKE"

[2manymustangs]

Let's say for the sake of argument, that the engines on a jet propel it forward at 800 miles per hour (I have no idea how fast they really go, but bear with me here). Now imagine that the plane is sitting on a really long conveyor belt. Both the belt and the plane are stationary, and the jet engines are off. Now, imagine that the conveyor belt starts moving at 800 mph. Seeing that the plane's engines are off, the plane gets dragged backward at 800 mph by the belt.

Now, if the pilot fires up those engines, that 800 mph of force is only going to counteract the backwards-moving conveyor belt, right? 800 mph in one direction less 800 mph in the other direction equals 0 mph. So, the plane sits stationary as the conveyor belt goes by beneath it.

If the plane isn't moving, then the air isn't moving above and beneath the wing at the required 800 mph, thus creating no lift. And that's that.

It will take a fraction of the TOTAL thrust to stop the plane from moving backward and start moving forward... Do I have one mile? How long is your "really long conveyor belt"???

At 800 MPH backward I don't have very long before I'm in the abyss...

[WESTERNAERO]

Tish, I said I was done, but now I really am. Read this. And stop trying to twist this into something you think is plausible.
http://www.airplaneonatreadmill.com/
Make sure you read the whole thing.

[Tishimself]

Tish, I said I was done, but now I really am. Read this. And stop trying to twist this into something you think is plausible.
http://www.airplaneonatreadmill.com/
Make sure you read the whole thing.

There are just as many peeps out there saying it will work as there are saying it wont. Don't have time to read, it, most likely I already have when I researched this subject way back when...LOL....

[gn7]

Don't yell at me. This example is all about Newton's third law. AS long as the wheels of the plane are turning faster than the treadmill, it will take off. When the two numbers match, it will not move forward. Get over it. Planes use air to grab a hold of, cars use the road. Two completely different scenarios. One does not equivocate to the other.

You are too funny. First it was converted thrust to the wheels in one post, now its AIR verses Surface. Your screwing yourself with you own posts. Its too funny. You know what you want to say, because you see it in you head, but you can make sense of it in words.

Like I said, its a hypothetical brain teaser that doesn't allow the plane to move forward on the hypothetical tread mill. None of which has anything to do with REAL physics.

[Tishimself]

It will take a fraction of the TOTAL thrust to stop the plane from moving backward and start moving forward... Do I have one mile? How long is your "really long conveyor belt"???

At 800 MPH backward I don't have very long before I'm in the abyss...

It never stated the length of it.

[2manymustangs]

It never stated the length of it.

Lets say that the conveyor is an infinite length... Is it a hard surface or squishy like grass/dirt AND are the wheels on the aero-plane rigid or soft/pneumatic???

DO you dispute that the thrust will in short order overcome the rolling resistance (once you start spinning up the jet) and will cause enough thrust to stop the backward motion of the airplane?