The Great Life Jacket Debate

**gn7** · 05-30-2014, 08:38 AM

Although some I/O and outboards have self closing throttles, most don't.
Think about somebody getting tossed from a 18ft flat bottom and it idles around until...... and a twin engine cat doing 110 until.........

**Just Electric** · 05-30-2014, 09:37 AM

Originally Posted by gn7

Although some I/O and outboards have self closing throttles, most don't.
Think about somebody getting tossed from a 18ft flat bottom and it idles around until...... and a twin engine cat doing 110 until.........

Very true gn7 most of the bigger boats run fast in more open waters I was was leaning towards all the smaller boats running the more narrow parts of the river. Plus what I've seen at som of Tom papps memorials where people are running hardware that's pretty darn scary with no regards to the other peeps safety. I guess we can't fix stupid

**KAP** · 05-31-2014, 01:29 PM

Commentary:

This topic comes up all the time with me. Why? Well everyone in my boat wears PFD's like or not. If not then get in your own boat and make your own rules.

It comes up because sometimes people want to talk smack. For Example..."hey KAP were's the race at"...why are you all "rickey racerd up" with jackets and stuff. My common reply is my wife needs to recover the body so she can collect the life insurance! The other is because I drive faster than your 55 MPH boat. Usually it's crickets after that if not I have more arrows in the quiver.

This topic is an interesting one. First and foremost, I am emphatically against mandatory PFD's on boats for adults and that goes for licensing as well. The marine industry is in the dumps right now so we don't want more obstacles to people boating we want to be inclusive.

A key issue that has not been discussed is what type of water are you boating on? Also speed is an issue if your driving a pontoon with a 90 HP outboard your top speed is like 19MPH. [You can skip this section.] In the ocean or anything remotely offshore if you don't wear a PFD in a performance boat... your simply a dumb azz and you need to be eliminated from the gene pool...just kidding...with some truth tinged in. Speed aside the ocean is not a place to mess around I don't care if your going 10knots. If your boat sinks and your not wearing a PFD your chances of dying are extremely high.

We can all agree on the above right! It should still be a choice but good Captains should make it a requirement.

Next is all other water types big lakes and rivers. In those situations I would say speed is more critical in making a determination. For Example...if you cruising LOTO in a 75ft Viking the PFD issue is a non-issue. Yeah you may have the but if X or Y...it is still an exception but the majority of the time a PFD is a moot point. I would not wear one it's uncomfortable when I'm trying to make a sandwich or use the facilities...note...large amounts of sarcasm.

Now if your cruising a performance boat at high speed you most certainly should be wearing a PFD and everyone on board. Will it save everyone's life probably not but it boosts your odds of surviving. Even more so if you have a performance PFD such a Lifeline, SRP, or Mustang. Now I own a Lifeline and can tell you it is 100% amazing. I have done the pool test dunk test and it is worth every penny. As a big guy it holds me high out of the water and rolls me onto my back. Plus, what people fail to realize is the impact absorbing ability of the vest. At high speed the body impacts both the water and possibly the boat. The impact will certainly render you incapacitated or unconscious that is where the high performance vest shines over the standard type Class IV PFD.

Sidenote: Water intrusion at high speed [for argument lets say 100MPH or more] will certainly kill you easily. Either through your mouth or rear end hence the need for ballistic shorts and helmets. The water intrusion is a completely different topic.

I regularly cruise at speeds in excess of 80MPH and even at that speed you can get killed. So anything over 90MPH should be a no brainer everyone gets a PFD.

I have done many a Poker Run and find myself and crew to be usually... the only ones wearing PFD's. I don't point fingers at those that don't unless it is a kid without one then get ready to hear it. If I am cruising my PFD is right next to me it only takes a minute to put it on...and yeah I don't always do the leg straps but buckled in a KILL SWITCH attached. [That is for another thread but rarely do I see anyone wearing a kill switch attached.]

Have I run without a PFD at high speed answer is YES but it is a rare occasion. Mr. & Mrs. Hotboat have witnessed first hand my requirement of everyone wears a PFD aboard my boat. Lastly, it is up to the Captain of the boat to make the rules because ultimately they are responsible for everyone aboard their vessel...and that is the law.

Wishing all my Hotboat members a safe and enjoyable summer boating season.

**Eli** · 05-31-2014, 02:12 PM

Originally Posted by KAP

Commentary:

This topic comes up all the time with me. Why? Well everyone in my boat wears PFD's like or not. If not then get in your own boat and make your own rules.

It comes up because sometimes people want to talk smack. For Example..."hey KAP were's the race at"...why are you all "rickey racerd up" with jackets and stuff. My common reply is my wife needs to recover the body so she can collect the life insurance! The other is because I drive faster than your 55 MPH boat. Usually it's crickets after that if not I have more arrows in the quiver.

This topic is an interesting one. First and foremost, I am emphatically against mandatory PFD's on boats for adults and that goes for licensing as well. The marine industry is in the dumps right now so we don't want more obstacles to people boating we want to be inclusive.

A key issue that has not been discussed is what type of water are you boating on? Also speed is an issue if your driving a pontoon with a 90 HP outboard your top speed is like 19MPH. [You can skip this section.] In the ocean or anything remotely offshore if you don't wear a PFD in a performance boat... your simply a dumb azz and you need to be eliminated from the gene pool...just kidding...with some truth tinged in. Speed aside the ocean is not a place to mess around I don't care if your going 10knots. If your boat sinks and your not wearing a PFD your chances of dying are extremely high.

We can all agree on the above right! It should still be a choice but good Captains should make it a requirement.

Next is all other water types big lakes and rivers. In those situations I would say speed is more critical in making a determination. For Example...if you cruising LOTO in a 75ft Viking the PFD issue is a non-issue. Yeah you may have the but if X or Y...it is still an exception but the majority of the time a PFD is a moot point. I would not wear one it's uncomfortable when I'm trying to make a sandwich or use the facilities...note...large amounts of sarcasm.

Now if your cruising a performance boat at high speed you most certainly should be wearing a PFD and everyone on board. Will it save everyone's life probably not but it boosts your odds of surviving. Even more so if you have a performance PFD such a Lifeline, SRP, or Mustang. Now I own a Lifeline and can tell you it is 100% amazing. I have done the pool test dunk test and it is worth every penny. As a big guy it holds me high out of the water and rolls me onto my back. Plus, what people fail to realize is the impact absorbing ability of the vest. At high speed the body impacts both the water and possibly the boat. The impact will certainly render you incapacitated or unconscious that is where the high performance vest shines over the standard type Class IV PFD.

Sidenote: Water intrusion at high speed [for argument lets say 100MPH or more] will certainly kill you easily. Either through your mouth or rear end hence the need for ballistic shorts and helmets. The water intrusion is a completely different topic.

I regularly cruise at speeds in excess of 80MPH and even at that speed you can get killed. So anything over 90MPH should be a no brainer everyone gets a PFD.

I have done many a Poker Run and find myself and crew to be usually... the only ones wearing PFD's. I don't point fingers at those that don't unless it is a kid without one then get ready to hear it. If I am cruising my PFD is right next to me it only takes a minute to put it on...and yeah I don't always do the leg straps but buckled in a KILL SWITCH attached. [That is for another thread but rarely do I see anyone wearing a kill switch attached.]

Have I run without a PFD at high speed answer is YES but it is a rare occasion. Mr. & Mrs. Hotboat have witnessed first hand my requirement of everyone wears a PFD aboard my boat. Lastly, it is up to the Captain of the boat to make the rules because ultimately they are responsible for everyone aboard their vessel...and that is the law.

Wishing all my Hotboat members a safe and enjoyable summer boating season.

Great post!

Why not just tell the people who make sarcastic comments "there are exits in every direction, feel free to use one."

Sent from my Bat Cave

**KAP** · 06-02-2014, 09:49 AM

Originally Posted by Eli

Great post!

Why not just tell the people who make sarcastic comments "there are exits in every direction, feel free to use one."

Sent from my Bat Cave

Eli:

It really gets old a lot of times I simply do not say anything anymore. If they need me to explain it to them...its already an uphill battle lol.

This topic can bring out a lot of personal issues for people. I for one don't preach PFD use it is up to responsible boat Captains to exercise prudence. Another issue aka pet peeve for me is when Captains of performance boats fail to wear kill lanyards/switches. So if you choose to not wear a PFD in YOUR boat at least wear the kill switch. Even more so if your out boating solo or with one other person. In the ocean you better be wearing both your PFD and KILL switch if you get tossed out. You will not only have a hard time treading water for hours but your boat could be heading off without you for miles. Versus being within swimming distance of where you got tossed out.

P.S. Great topic...it would be interesting to see who uses their kill switch lanyard. I know of some boaters that do not even know why it's on the boat.

**gn7** · 06-02-2014, 10:36 AM

Originally Posted by KAP

Eli:
In the ocean you better be wearing both your PFD and KILL switch if you get tossed out. You will not only have a hard time treading water for hours but your boat could be heading off without you for miles. Versus being within swimming distance of where you got tossed out.

I can't say my heart bleeds too much for somebody that is stupid enough to drive a boat, or ride in a boat in the ocean that doesn't have a lanyard kill switch.
But you wouldn't want to be the moron that got tossed from his boat doing 100+ on the river. You couldn't swim fast enough or far enough.

**ptc** · 06-04-2014, 03:54 PM

Originally Posted by thatguy

Regulating common sense and self preservation by gov. mandate is never a good idea. There is little doubt that, eventually, there will be required boat operators permit that will be obtained by paying for a Gov. approved or taught "safety course". Like most things the gov requires in the name of safety, it will be a revenue generator, and branch into regs that resemble 49 CFR.

While it may seem like a good thing to "require" this or that, you just can't regulate stupid, and you can not mandate common sense. Case in point, Drunk driving. Every single person not in a coma knows it is illegal to drink and drive. Who here is 100% not guilty? (I know there are a few)

I had a DUI. From arrest to end 3 years later it cost me about 20k. NOT ONCE in the process was safety or dangers with drunk driving mentioned. Not from the LEO with his boot on my neck, the loser dyke intake officer, the judge who was running about 30 DUI cases through before noon, the court monkey who I gave $150.00 to so I could be analyzed for level of corrective counciling required to correct me, the MADD mother seminar I had to pay to attend, the 3 days of incarceration, the 3 years of SR22, etc. The ONLY topic ever discussed or decided during this process was how much I would pay.

Having ranted on with that, I will say that my love of fast, loud, insane looking boats is in part a conscious decision to remove myself from doing that on the street. Having a division 7 points earning super street Nova tended to cost me a lot in violations, so I trailered it and just raced. Fun for 10 seconds at a time, at about 50 bucks a second minimum. So I took a ride in a 5 rib Sanger one day and the light bulb came on!!!

Now we are discussing bringing the rules of commuting to the last vestige of affordable recreation and enjoyment? I don't think so.

"Let's make a life vest law"? Seriously? "Let's make a license law" Are you kidding me?

We wear our high dollar vests while under way 100% now. Have I pegged it without the vest? Yes I have, and I always think how foolish it was later on. NO ONE rides without a vest I approve of or supply.

A person that can afford a half million dollar, 150 MPH boat can do as they wish. Personally, I would have a few HP boat classes under my belt before I turned the key on such a machine. We are way past bobbers at that point.

So yeah, wear the vest or be an idiot.

But at least own a fucking boat before trying to dictate law and regs on me and my hobby.

God I love drunk posting!!!!

Thank You very Much Tommy for posting the OBVIOUS!!!! All you people out there posting that dont even own boats should STFU!.... your vote doesnt and shouldnt COUNT EVER until you take the responsibility of being a boat owner!

As for what Tommy also stated - he is absolutely right in the fact that you need to follow the money! thats where this will all lead, you know it will. Manufacturers, LEOS the courts, and lawyers will make bank off this.... and thats all they care about. They dont give one shit about your safety are you kidding me?????

Boating really is the last vestige of still allowing un-adulterated "speed" as we all know it.... all of our rights for hot-rodding have been totally taken away on the streets with laws (over stupidity I know) do we really want them on the water too now? When will it end? Where will we get our thrill for speed anymore 'legally'? Will everything have to be done outside the law in the future??? Sure seems so for our kids!

As for Vic stating anything about Moto helmets and voters that DONT RIDE.... WTF? Vic do you ride? Why do any of you people think you can make rules for what I do when I ride???? CA LAW says I have to have INSURANCE to pay for my death or my injuries if in an accident (with or without a helmet on) so dont give me no shit about having to pay for my emergency services because none of you pay shit for me or any other rider.

This life jacket discussion crap is a bunch of bullshit.... STUPID should HURT!!!! If you dont wear one you DIE.... simple as that.... clean out this GENETIC POOL of garbage and you'll find life a lot easier to deal with....

sorry to be harsh....