The really "Old School" boating thread

[gn7]

28585
NDBA Blown Fuel Flat record holder ... 137.82 mph Howard Custom Boats, Howard Brown driver .... 1960's
Looks like the family ski boat with a Blown Chrysler in it!

That thing was amazing. I can't think of another boat that helped launch Howard Boats more than that thing did. That boat did for Howard what the Mouse did for Hondo.

[westair]

That thing was amazing. I can't think of another boat that helped launch Howard Boats more than that thing did. That boat did for Howard what the Mouse did for Hondo.

Back when racing was a lot about promoting and selling boats.
I always wonder if any of these boats survived over the years but I guess very few did if any ...... would love to hear that Chrysler fire up!

[Sharp shooter]

One more request, Gary Owens pix.

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[2manymustangs]

Hey S.S. , while on the OLD drag boat topic, do you have a better/nicer/bigger shot of the "007" 15 feet in the air like the one I posted in the DRAG BOAT thread? If so could post here AND give us some history on that event/crash???

I'm suffering from CRS and don't recall any of the story/location...

[Sharp shooter]

Hey S.S. , while on the OLD drag boat topic, do you have a better/nicer/bigger shot of the "007" 15 feet in the air like the one I posted in the DRAG BOAT thread? If so could post here AND give us some history on that event/crash???

I'm suffering from CRS and don't recall any of the story/location...

Seriously....?

[2manymustangs]

Seriously....?

I didn't mean pictures that YOU shot... :( I thought you may have something from your archives/magazines...

[Sharp shooter]

1976

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[Sharp shooter]

'76.

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[westair]

1976

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That was a good year:thumbup:

[GotHalos]

28585 How 'Bout That
NDBA Blown Fuel Flat record holder ... 137.82 mph Howard Custom Boats, Howard Brown driver .... 1960's
Looks like the family ski boat with a Blown Chrysler in it!

Awesome! :thumbup:

[2manymustangs]

Aue natural... :thumbsUp:

[Sharp shooter]

'78

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[Sharp shooter]

'75

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[gn7]

'78

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Cool poster Jerry. That thing has it all. The Speed and Marine E.T. and G.N., Duff, and Rocky Aoki.
Wonder how many know who the presenter RB Racing even is. They were HUGE in the endurance races in Florida.
Or that Rocky Aoki raced GN boats. Or who Rocky Aoki even is.

http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2454/4017112977_bb3af61c54_m.jpg

[RyanPartridge]

Cool poster Jerry. That thing has it all. The Speed and Marine E.T. and G.N., Duff, and Rocky Aoki.
Wonder how many know who the presenter RB Racing even is. They were HUGE in the endurance races in Florida.
Or that Rocky Aoki raced GN boats. Or who Rocky Aoki even is.

http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2454/4017112977_bb3af61c54_m.jpg

Years back I used to run in the same circles as Aoki's son Steve. He's still close with my old room mate...

Benihana!

[gn7]

Those were great days in boat racing when you have people like Rocky and Al Copeland(Popeye's Chicken) running offshore. Couple astronauts, Mike Gordon (Gordons Fish) and Red Adair racing GN.

https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTp-uuzY9OeJ9X3RjZE9YpGf5jsGd73w8If3pR46-hY82lqPWhPhQ
http://img476.imageshack.us/img476/9215/benihana5dk5.jpg

[Sharp shooter]

Cool poster Jerry. That thing has it all. The Speed and Marine E.T. and G.N., Duff, and Rocky Aoki.
Wonder how many know who the presenter RB Racing even is. They were HUGE in the endurance races in Florida.
Or that Rocky Aoki raced GN boats. Or who Rocky Aoki even is.

http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2454/4017112977_bb3af61c54_m.jpg

I wonder what $40,000 IN '78 equates to today?

[HB Vic]

i wonder what $40,000 in '78 equates to today?

$2.775m :d

[gn7]

I wonder what $40,000 IN '78 equates to today?

A new DeVille was 10,000, a Charger was 5,500, and a Nova was 3,500
And I bought my house for 66,000.

[Sharp shooter]

A new DeVille was 10,000, a Charger was 5,500, and a Nova was 3,500
And I bought my house for 66,000.

Out of all of those your house was the only one worth buying.

[WESTERNAERO]

Out of all of those your house was the only one worth buying.

Yeah, no shit. 1978 cars.:puke:

[CampbellCarl]

All 21 Cruisers you see racing and that vast majority of the recreational cruisers have less freeboard than the mold. There are very few full height cruisers out there, and when you see one, you know it. I have only seen one.
I think there may be a slight height difference with the boats that have the crown deck like the B&W pics I posted, the boat in the as that Shooter posted, and the ones Ryan posted. I believe the flat ski deck like the ones on the majority of the boats racing GN. The only crown deck that comes to mind that raced recently is Devine's GN47. I don't think its a lot different in the freeboard, but I think its slightly taller. The deck plays a role in how far they cut down the hull. The more they cut the sides, the shorter and narrower the boat gets and the deck doesn't fit properly and needs modifying.
The mold is about 6" taller than the boats you see racing GN. Most of the boats that are taller than the GNs are less than 2 inches taller, even though they look much taller. A full height 21 cruiser is HUGE looking. The one and only full height cruiser I have seen was a outboard center console whaler. The guy worked for Rudy back in the 70s and uses it for fishing in the ocean and runs to Catalina.


They have been built in every conceivable configuration you can think of. V drive, jet, outboard, open bow, whaler. Not too many boats that do very well in competition, ski, circle and offshore, usually do well as recreation boats. He sold a ton of them.



Bob, I think that Sammons may have a 'full-height' cruiser that he is threatening to make a Whaler out of. I know that Armen had a fairly tall cruiser that he sold to RCL and I look to see if I can find a pic of the two side by side but the one that Sammons got (from RCL's buddy Tim) had to be 4" taller than the tall one that Armen had.

[RyanPartridge]

This jacket, along with a bunch of cool old water ski stuff, is hanging up in this really good breakfast spot called The Crooked Duck here in Long Beach.

:smile:

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[2manymustangs]

Bob, I think that Sammons may have a 'full-height' cruiser that he is threatening to make a Whaler out of. I know that Armen had a fairly tall cruiser that he sold to RCL and I look to see if I can find a pic of the two side by side but the one that Sammons got (from RCL's buddy Tim) had to be 4" taller than the tall one that Armen had.

Vdrive? with gear box and engine?

[CampbellCarl]

Found it.....but there is another one with the two 21's side by side...
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[CampbellCarl]

Vdrive? with gear box and engine?

Trying to campare pix of the one Ryan posted, the Elephant Bastard and this brown one. The blue one appears that the cav rod is about at midpoint from the plates to the cap while the white one and brown one look to be about one third from plate to cav rod and two thirds from rod to cap.

Bruce, unsure which boat you are asking about but both Armen's and (now) Sammons' cruisers are both v-drives.

[gn7]

Found it.....but there is another one with the two 21's side by side...
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Yes, Daves cruiser certainly appears to be full height. Its kind of funny because from this angle it doesn't really seem to be that much taller. Then you look at the one you posted from the back and look at the distance from the cap line to the cav control bar, and its way tall. You would have to cut that down to about the top of the dark brown gel coat graphics to get close to a "normal" cruiser.

It wouldn't be the first cruiser whaler. I believe Danny Bell has a full height hull he was going to make into a center console whaler, but now I think he considering a wood deck with the dash moved forward. Rudy laid up a whaler for a customer that never picked it up, and he eventually traded it with a flat deck installed for a 20ft flat and some cash. That boat is now Andy's "Shakedown" boat.

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[CampbellCarl]

This transaction happend over the weekend of RCL's birthday and a bunch of us were up there and took the tour of Tim's garage. This brown one has a floor in it and when Sammons was standing in the boat, the gunnel hit him about waist high.....

[Digger]

Found it.....but there is another one with the two 21's side by side...
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Where are the super secret spy photos? Karl. :wink2:

[gn7]

Where are the super secret spy photos? Karl. :wink2:

They are seriously off limits.

[gn7]

Vdrive? with gear box and engine?

I am going to smack you aside the head next time I see you. :knockout:
Of course with an engine. A SOHC turning a ditch pump. :wtf:

[2manymustangs]

Trying to campare pix of the one Ryan posted, the Elephant Bastard and this brown one. The blue one appears that the cav rod is about at midpoint from the plates to the cap while the white one and brown one look to be about one third from plate to cav rod and two thirds from rod to cap.

Bruce, unsure which boat you are asking about but both Armen's and (now) Sammons' cruisers are both v-drives.

I was asking about this brown cruiser, assuming this is now Sammon's... YOur pic answered the question about Vdrive... :thumbsUp:

[Wheeler]

Bob, I think that Sammons may have a 'full-height' cruiser that he is threatening to make a Whaler out of. I know that Armen had a fairly tall cruiser that he sold to RCL and I look to see if I can find a pic of the two side by side but the one that Sammons got (from RCL's buddy Tim) had to be 4" taller than the tall one that Armen had.


I heard that it was getting an old skool hemi and a roll bar, for safety of course.:wink:

[Sharp shooter]

Progress Report
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[Wheeler]

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Thanks Jerry!

Owens and Polacia used to hang around my Fathers shop back in the day.
They both raced go carts at Trojan Speedway, probably around '67 or '68.

[Wendi]

I imagine that Karl still has his old Travco sitting in the south forty and I hear he's ready to make a deal! :thumb:

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Seriously you had to bring this up again? Bad subject, let it go :shhh:

[Wendi]

Have you not figured out that Karl was just messing with you? :shock:

I have always thought the Karls Koach was pretty cool. :action-smiley-035: Ummm NO he was very serious. He does have a cool coach, better than what I have that is for sure, cuz I have nothing!

[2manymustangs]

Have you not figured out that Karl was just messing with you? :shock:

I have always thought the Karls Koach was pretty cool. :action-smiley-035:

IF those MOHO walls could talk, I bet they could tell some stories... :party1:

[CampbellCarl]

Have you not figured out that Carl was just messing with you? :shock:

I have always thought the Carls Coach was pretty cool. :action-smiley-035:



Just when you think that you might know somebody................you'd be flat assed wrong..........

[WMC]

Just when you think that you might know somebody................you'd be flat assed wrong..........





Just when you think that you might know somebody................you'd be flat assed wrong..........

:thumbdown:

Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk

[gn7]

Progress Report
28760

Cool article Jerry. There is that damn "paralax" bottom again. I am stumped. I need to talk to Fitz or Duff about that.
Its as a few things off a little. His first drag boat was called Phffft, not POOF. Also, I think he won 100 consecutive SK races in his first glass 16 fter, and was the reason he used the number 100 on his 17 1/2 ft that followed it. I think Kenny Wilcox had the 100 boat, and now its at Jet Boat Plus. Ms K034 may have the inside on where that boat is.

Of all the trophies Rudy won, when he died there was only one left. And that was only because his daughter had it at her place. If I am not mistaken it if for the Gulf Hall of Fame.
He threw out hundreds when he moved out of the shop, straight into a roll off dumpster, including the first Salton Sea 500 trophy, which now there is only a picture of him with it. Wish I would have gotten by there more when he was moving that stuff out. I got a bunch of stuff, but no where near what I wish I would have.

[Sharp shooter]

Of all the trophies Rudy won, when he died there was only one left. And that was only because his daughter had it at her place.

That's a shame. I guess he earned so many that they just didn't mean much anymore.

[westair]

Rayson Craft manufacturing building, 41,000 sq ft ....... nice building Rudy had!

[Sharp shooter]

'76
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[Sharp shooter]

When you love outboards, but you're a jet boater at heart. :D

'76

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[2manymustangs]

When you love outboards, but you're a jet boater at heart. :D

'76

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hey Jerry, those are VERY VERY popular here on the ozark streams... My cousin had the bragging rights of having the FASTEST aluminum GIGGING boat on the Meremec river for a while... He ran a BIG looper OMC V6 OUTBOARD/JET and his GIGGING boat would run 100MPH in the 1/4 mile so im told... THey are actually a pretty cool boat that you can run right through the shallows/rocks when up on plane...

Gigging "suckers" is very popular here in the winter and they are great fish to eat... The boats haul a large gasoline generator and have the BIG flood lights as shown...

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http://youtu.be/seh1qzxXtII

[WMC]

There's some cool stuff in this thread. Thanks all

Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk

[gn7]

Rayson Craft manufacturing building, 41,000 sq ft ....... nice building Rudy had!

It was originally his dad's foundry. His dad did a lot of work during WWII, mostly for Lockheed, and was a incredibly intelligent man. It was actually his dad Ray's idea to lay up high performance boats in fiberglass, and his dads connections with the aircraft engineers to show them how. There were low speed, low powered small outboards and canoes made of glass, but nobody trying to build a 100mph inboard. The foundry remained after they started making boats, they cast parts for Rayson's as well as stuff for others like Glenwood and Casale and Hallcraft V drive cases during that time. But in time the boat thing took over the place.
It wasn't really "A" building, in was a number of buildings.

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[Mitch]

You'll never see this going down the highway. :D

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Pretty sano Regatta considering its in the year.

[Sharp shooter]

Needles drag boat races '75.


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"Pussy Galore" lol

[gn7]

Mecom's "SAINT" one of the original "Rawhide" boats raced by Lou Brummett and sold to Mecom.
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[westair]

Needles drag boat races '75.


Colorado River Days .... what happened to it? ..I would think Needles would always welcome these events! ..never knew they had drag racing there.

[Sharp shooter]

Mecom's "SAINT" one of the original "Rawhide" boats raced by Lou Brummett and sold to Mecom.
http://www.hotboat.com/frm/attachment.php?attachmentid=28836&d=1387510489

That boat deserves a top notch resto if any boat does.


Colorado River Days .... what happened to it? ..I would think Needles would always welcome these events! ..never knew they had drag racing there.

I think they did these every year for a while. I never attended and didn't know they raced there either....

[westair]

Mecom's "SAINT" one of the original "Rawhide" boats raced by Lou Brummett and sold to Mecom.
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Nice pic ..1961 ..looks like good acceleration out of the gate!

[HotWater]

Needles drag boat races '75.


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"Pussy Galore" lol
Someone needs to run that name again. :smile:

[gn7]

Someone needs to run that name again. :smile:

Depends on the organization. APBA has a clause about boat names. It all started with a boat called the X Muscle. They got after Paul Brochauser about his Rayson LP ProStocker called Soggy Bitch. He died before they really pushed the issue. But they have "approval" right to boat names, specially "new" names.

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[HotWater]

Depends on the organization. APBA has a clause about boat names. It all started with a boat called the X Muscle. They got after Paul Brochauser about his Rayson LP ProStocker called Soggy Bitch. He died before they really pushed the issue. But they have "approval" right to boat names, specially "new" names.

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Yeah that probably wouldnt go over to well.

[gn7]

Yeah that probably wouldnt go over to well.

Always wanted to call my boat "The Bone Holster" but I am pretty sure they wouldn't care for that.

[Sharp shooter]

Always wanted to call my boat "The Bone Holster" but I am pretty sure they wouldn't care for that.

I always liked Tony's idea for "Suck my D' Cucci". lol

[HotWater]

Can you imagine one of those names being announced at the races. Haha!

[gn7]

I always liked Tony's idea for "Suck my D' Cucci". lol

That's GREAT!!!! Only Tony!

[papaletch4130]

There is a old Rayson Craft.. Rudy behind the wheel and what it looks like now..

[RyanPartridge]

That boat deserves a top notch resto if any boat does.

Already happening.

I saw it for sale in Texas a few years back, the listing had all kinds of misspellings. I called Barry about it since I knew his family connection with those boats, my buddy Joe just about had it...next thing I knew, Carson had it. I believe Kornowski did the repairs. I haven't seen it, not sure if the original gel was saved...

[westair]

I think they did these every year for a while. I never attended and didn't know they raced there either....

Also cool to see pics of Crazy Horse ... thanks! ...in Needles of all places. Pretty interesting that it had a Pfaff chevy in it, Paul's been around awhile.
This almost sounds like the beginning of Al Bush and Crazy Horse the way the article reads.

[westair]

There is a old Rayson Craft.. Rudy behind the wheel and what it looks like now..

Very cool! thanks for posting .... it seems very few of these boats survived, love the history.

[gn7]

Also cool to see pics of Crazy Horse ... thanks! ...in Needles of all places. Pretty interesting that it had a Pfaff chevy in it, Paul's been around awhile.
This almost sounds like the beginning of Al Bush and Crazy Horse the way the article reads.

Paul goes way back. Pfaff & Sowens made a name for themselves building blown fuel small block chevies that ran with the hemis.

[Sharp shooter]

Already happening.

I saw it for sale in Texas a few years back, the listing had all kinds of misspellings. I called Barry about it since I knew his family connection with those boats, my buddy Joe just about had it...next thing I knew, Carson had it. I believe Kornowski did the repairs. I haven't seen it, not sure if the original gel was saved...

Sweet!! One more I will look forward to seeing completed!!:partyguy:

[Sharp shooter]

Paul goes way back. Pfaff & Sowens made a name for themselves building blown fuel small block chevies that ran with the hemis.

Mid 60's at least.

http://www.v-drivevideo.net/pictures/albums/2/Vintage_ads_3_007.jpg

[gn7]

Shooter, I saw that you posted this on PB awhile back. This is a great shot.
Double eagle asked you when and where. I loved you answer, "give me 5 guesses and I can tell you" Sums up the boats history in a nutshell.
I can pretty much narrow it down to Salton Sea, and as you know, 64 or 65.

There are a couple give things that make me say its at SS. Straight over the top of the Ford wagon is Rudy's U6 Phffft with a large Rayson script on the side. Rudy usually drove that boat. He used it to win the Clear Lake enduro in 1964 even though he had the Allison boat, he used the U6 boat in that race. The 2 very seldom if ever raced in the same race except SS 500. 1964 Fowler drove it to 2nd place behind the Allison, ahead of the 1963 winner #69 Sanger of Wells Wilson.
The other give away is the device on the helmet you see resting on tank. That thing, whatever it is, only appears when Rudy ran the Salton 500 in the Allison boat. I have seen others with the same thing, but only at SS 500. I also think it is some how linked to the thing mounted on the rear deck in this picture, although I think they relocated that part somewhere else in the boat because it doesn't show up other pictures.

No matter where or when it was shot, its a great pic. I'm think I'll have a print made of that one.

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[Sharp shooter]

Shooter, I saw that you posted this on PB awhile back. This is a great shot.
Double eagle asked you when and where. I loved you answer, "give me 5 guesses and I can tell you" Sums up the boats history in a nutshell.
I can pretty much narrow it down to Salton Sea, and as you know, 64 or 65.

There are a couple give things that make me say its at SS. Straight over the top of the Ford wagon is Rudy's U6 Phffft with a large Rayson script on the side. Rudy usually drove that boat. He used it to win the Clear Lake enduro in 1964 even though he had the Allison boat, he used the U6 boat in that race. The 2 very seldom if ever raced in the same race except SS 500. 1964 Fowler drove it to 2nd place behind the Allison, ahead of the 1963 winner #69 Sanger of Wells Wilson.
The other give away is the device on the helmet you see resting on tank. That thing, whatever it is, only appears when Rudy ran the Salton 500 in the Allison boat. I have seen others with the same thing, but only at SS 500. I also think it is some how linked to the thing mounted on the rear deck in this picture, although I think they relocated that part somewhere else in the boat because it doesn't show up other pictures.

No matter where or when it was shot, its a great pic. I'm think I'll have a print made of that one.

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I love that pic! It doesn't just capture a few guys and a couple of boats. It captures an era!!!:thumbup:

[Sharp shooter]

One of many boats found in the pages of Hot Rod magazine (Jack Cayer). Reminds me of my childhood. '67

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[gn7]

One of many boats found in the pages of Hot Rod magazine (Jack Cayer). Reminds me of my childhood. '67

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the Cayer Package. Great boat. Like you said, it a throwback boat. Reminds me of my uncles Gold flake Stevens powered by a 392 with 6 Strombergs.
Never was able to nail down the manufacture of that hull. Rear deck looks like a Haller, but the nose is too pointy. Angular transom with a recess.
The girl in the back looks like she is blowing on her wet nails, and the boy is staring at the beast running inches away from him.

And of course mom has the "do" 2MM was looking for.

[Sharp shooter]

And of course mom has the "do" 2MM was looking for.

She sure does! lol

[gn7]

Another early pic of the U9 Allison. This is earlier than the one on the ramp because it still has 4 Carter AFB 4 bbls carbs. Note the 61-62 Vette in the backround.

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White Mist III in the ramp. You have to wonder if this was taken minutes before it was destroyed.
OK Jerry, how do I know this is White Mist III and not IV? The two are virtually identical.
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[Sharp shooter]

Another early pic of the U9 Allison. This is earlier than the one on the ramp because it still has 4 Carter AFB 4 bbls carbs. Note the 61-62 Vette in the backround.

Since I'm not motivated enough to go digging through magazines trying to figure this out I'll take a guess. Injection was changed. :)

[gn7]

Since I'm not motivated enough to go digging through magazines trying to figure this out I'll take a guess. Injection was changed. :)

WM III was a single prop and IV was a counter rotating dual. I think the crash had something to do with that decision.

[Sharp shooter]

Stocker!

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[Sharp shooter]

WM III was a single prop and IV was a counter rotating dual. I think the crash had something to do with that decision.

Now that you bring that up, I have a powerboat mag somewhere with the feature on that. Would've taken me at least 45 minutes to find it. :D

[Sharp shooter]

This is pretty amazing for 1959.

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[gn7]

Heres a few with some history and celebs

Marion Beaver receiving a trophy for driving Gummy's Ghost AND Uncle Gummy. Not sure exactly when he stopped driving them, but Bob Ellis and Wayne Thompson drove them all the time I saw them, and that was pretty much the mid and late 60s.

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Keith Black receiving a trophy for driving a cracker. I don't think KB Racing Engines has opened its doors yet. :hmmm:
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But this one has some real history.
Left to right in the back:
Stu Hilborn, Hi Johnson(propellers) Paul Sawyer boat owner, and in the foreground, Clay Smith.
has to be pre 1954 because Clay was killed that year.
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[Sharp shooter]

Heres a few with some history and celebs

Marion Beaver receiving a trophy for driving Gummy's Ghost AND Uncle Gummy. Not sure exactly when he stopped driving them, but Bob Ellis and Wayne Thompson drove them all the time I saw them, and that was pretty much the mid and late 60s.


Keith Black receiving a trophy for driving a cracker. I don't think KB Racing Engines has opened its doors yet. :hmmm:


But this one has some real history.
Left to right in the back:
Stu Hilborn, Hi Johnson(propellers) Paul Sawyer boat owner, and in the foreground, Clay Smith.
has to be pre 1954 because Clay was killed that year.


Way before my time....

I did see that we just lost Stu Hilborn. RIP Stu.

[Wheeler]

Summer of '89, down river from Badenochs.

The little girl is a cancer survivor of childhood Leukemia. She is now a nurse at CHOC.

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[Sanger_Spectra]

Here is Dad and Mom in their 63' Spitfire with 401 Nail head, they raised 7 kids in this thing planted a lifestyle that still has us vacationing together!

[RyanPartridge]

Great stuff everyone!

[2manymustangs]

Summer of '89, down river from Badenochs.

The little girl is a cancer survivor of childhood Leukemia. She is now a nurse at CHOC.

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THis picture and story is a treasure, ty for posting Wheeler!!! :thumb:

[westair]

Here is Dad and Mom in their 63' Spitfire with 401 Nail head, they raised 7 kids in this thing planted a lifestyle that still has us vacationing together!

That's a great pic of them cruising in the boat!

[Sharp shooter]

Chris on the left.

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[SnoC653]

Chris on the left.

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That is a neat picture, complete with ski jump in the background. I remember when almost every lake had several ski jumps set up. Lucky to find even one today.

[2manymustangs]

That is a neat picture, complete with ski jump in the background. I remember when almost every lake had several ski jumps set up. Lucky to find even one today.

Lake St Louis :) where I learned to ski:

http://www.lslski.com/ (http://www.lslski.com/)

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[Sharp shooter]

Those pics don't look very old Bruce.

Here's a 1959 Wickens.

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[gn7]

Those pics don't look very old Bruce.


Yeah Bruce, try to your shit together.

Bruce, name this boat and the class it ran in. This is an EASY one.
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Or the driver(s) of this as well as the passenger(s) Shit, I'll settle for the last name of all of them.
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[SnoC653]

Can we all guess? I would have PM'd the answer, but your box is full.

[Sharp shooter]

Cool cover!

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[2manymustangs]

Those pics don't look very old Bruce.

Here's a 1959 Wickens.



I just pulled those pictures off of the club website... It was probably 38 years ago when I learned to ski... I gave up skiing about 10 years ago for the wakeboard, MUCH better on my knees/hips... :)

Glen was commenting about how you don't see ski jumps anymore and as shown in the recent pictures from the LSL club (where I grew up), they still have and use their ski jump...

[Sharp shooter]

I just pulled those pictures off of the club website... It was probably 38 years ago when I learned to ski... I gave up skiing about 10 years ago for the wakeboard, MUCH better on my knees/hips... :)

Glen was commenting about how you don't see ski jumps anymore and as shown in the recent pictures from the LSL club (where I grew up), they still have and use their ski jump...

Post the pics of you learning to ski 38 years ago. That's what the threads about.;)

[2manymustangs]

Post the pics of you learning to ski 38 years ago. That's what the threads about.;)

I can't get the daguerreotypes to scan very clearly... :hmmm:

[Sharp shooter]

Doesn't this Parallex look like a flatbottom...?

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[gn7]

Shooter, we have a problem with the image.

[SnoC653]

Doesn't this Parallex look like a flatbottom...?

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Shooter, we have a problem with the image.

Looks more like a polar bear lost in a snow storm on my screen. I'll second the problem motion.

Wow, a new site and GN7 and I already agree on something. Must be the season. ;)

[gn7]

I saw it once. It was a Rayson ad with Ron Carter standing behind his boat "Never Satisfied"

Then, poof, it was gone

Edit: Its back!
There's that parallax bottom again, Now I can ask both Ron and Fitz about this "special" bottom.:wink:
Looks like a 18ft LP flat to me. I know he ran a 18 ft LP flat until at least 1970, and possibly later. How do you put this "parallax" bottom of the GN on a flat???

Rare ad Shooter. Paul didn't do a lot of skiing, but a shit load of observing and driving.
Had to have been a tough blow to Ron to switch to Chevy BBC. He wad a die hard FE guy.

[Wheeler]

He's a die hard FE guy.

2902029021290222902329024.........

[Wheeler]

29030290292902629028290312902529027

//////////////

[Wheeler]

Spike& The Mortician and ??? :smilies_mit_hut019:

25769

I know who Spike is but who's the guy with the big stain on his T-Shirt?
He looks like a foreigner.:happy:

29032290332903429035

[Wheeler]

29036290372903829039290402904129042290432904429045 290462904729048290492905029051290522905329054..... ....

[Sharp shooter]

Good stuff Wheeler! A lot of great shots there!

http://www.v-drivevideo.net/pictures/albums/userpics/Chris_Blev_pics_007.jpg

[Sharp shooter]

http://www.v-drivevideo.net/pictures/albums/2/Grich_031.jpg

[Sharp shooter]

http://www.v-drivevideo.net/pictures/albums/2/sceaminmeemie.jpg

[Sharp shooter]

http://www.v-drivevideo.net/pictures/albums/b/v-drive_ads_046.jpg

[Sharp shooter]

http://www.v-drivevideo.net/pictures/albums/userpics/Copy_%286%29_of_wow.jpg

[Sharp shooter]

http://www.v-drivevideo.net/pictures/albums/userpics/Wild_Child80.jpg

[Sharp shooter]

http://www.v-drivevideo.net/pictures/albums/userpics/Griffin_Archives_010.jpg

[2manymustangs]

2902029021290222902329024.........
:bowdown:
29080
:bowdown:

[gn7]

Jerry, it look as though the guy that won the World Outboard Championship with a 3 outboard Rayson ran it in the Parker 9 hour as well.

2nd outboard, right smack in the middle of a bunch of Switzer wings. Not a bad showing for V bottom.

29093

[gn7]

:bowdown:
29080
:bowdown:

I posted that boat for your worshipping benefit over on PB. So whats the WINNING history of that boat. You must have that Bruce. Otherwise its just a trailer queen.

[Sharp shooter]

Jerry, it look as though the guy that won the World Outboard Championship with a 3 outboard Rayson ran it in the Parker 9 hour as well.

Right smack in the middle of a bunch of Switzer wings. Not a bad showing for V bottom.

29093

Maybe it's time to switch your program. :D

[gn7]

Maybe it's time to switch your program. :D

Yeah, a 3 engine in the COR class.:gas:

[Wheeler]

29111291122910929106291042910729113291142911529116 29105291032911729118291192912029121291222910829123 2912429110

.......

[westair]

I knew Sally from school in Hacienda Heights ...didn't realize at the time how much she accomplished in water skiing!
Pretty cool being pulled by Panic Mouse!
29126

[westair]

29129 I think 69 or 70.

[Sharp shooter]

:bowdown:
29080
:bowdown:

I would love to have a have Cammer in an old flatty or a 64 Galaxy.

[Sharp shooter]

62

I think Rudy had an affection for 60's t-birds.

2913029131

[Sharp shooter]

http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb39/Roadroamer1/funny_zps59ed6fcb.jpg (http://s208.photobucket.com/user/Roadroamer1/media/funny_zps59ed6fcb.jpg.html)

[gn7]

I knew Sally from school in Hacienda Heights ...didn't realize at the time how much she accomplished in water skiing!
Pretty cool being pulled by Panic Mouse!
29126

Not only did that girl hauls, she was very easy to look at. Not sure why, but she left the sport early. She could have accomplished a lot more.
I don't believe she was pulled by the Panic Mouse. Stearns was. I think she was pulled by Bob Nordskogs Viking Spirit.
Bob put up the big show with a couple box vans, bunch of crew wearing shop shirts, banners, the whole deal. He made it quite the deal. At that time, Nordskog Marine Center was building the engines for the Panic Mouse, so they used it to pull Stearns.

[2manymustangs]

62

I think Rudy had an affection for 60's t-birds.

2913029131

My father in law bought a new white 61 Tbird in Hollywood CA and drove it 300K miles, one new 390 engine AND sold it for 5K when he moved back to Cali in 1984... Not baaad... :)

[Sharp shooter]

1962
29132


29133

[Sharp shooter]

1961

29134

29135

[gn7]

I am guessing that article was from 1961 like the Cragar ad. That was SS 500 number uno. That was the race that served notice to the East coasters they weren't coming back there to race them anymore because they had kicked their asses 3 years running in the Gold Coast 9hr. in Florida. So if the best of the east wanted to race them best in the country they needed to head to SS. Rudy won that race in a 16ft with a 392 Hemi.

Not sure when the last SS 500 ran, but my guess is 1967. Funny, it lost a lot of lime light after the 1965 race. I know who won 61-65, and no clue who won 66 and 67.

[westair]

Not only did that girl hauls, she was very easy to look at. Not sure why, but she left the sport early. She could have accomplished a lot more.
I don't believe she was pulled by the Panic Mouse. Stearns was. I think she was pulled by Bob Nordskogs Viking Spirit.
Bob put up the big show with a couple box vans, bunch of crew wearing shop shirts, banners, the whole deal. He made it quite the deal. At that time, Nordskog Marine Center was building the engines for the Panic Mouse, so they used it to pull Stearns.

Yep, very pretty with the blond hair and the long legs .... I remember that part well:biggrin: ... I think close to 6 ft also. She was a little ahead of me in HS and after she graduated that was the last I seen or heard of her. I'm always looking to see if she pops up at any of these ski events but I don't think she does. I thought maybe the Catalina Race since she is a past champion.

[gn7]

Yep, very pretty with the blond hair and the long legs .... I remember that part well:biggrin: ... I think close to 6 ft also. She was a little ahead of me in HS and after she graduated that was the last I seen or heard of her. I'm always looking to see if she pops up at any of these ski events but I don't think she does. I thought maybe the Catalina Race since she is a past champion.

I haven't heard anything about her once she left skiing. I don't know if it was because she got married or what. She just disappeared from the scene and Debbie Norblad, Lori Dunsmore, and Marsha Mier(Fitzgerald) took over. While Sally was skiing, she had to compete with Janie Mobley Welch. That was like competing against Force in Funny car. Debbie owned the joint for two decades. She was virtually unbeatable. Sally was younger and owned he age class, and would have taken over for Janie, but she left.

Maybe Skiskier knows what happened to Sally.

[FLATS ONLY]

Lot of different hulls but still all chev power I see.... sure wish I would have known about the circle boats back then, lot of competition and no shortage of boats it seems.


So were these small blocks when it first started ..... what speeds, 100mph+? ..... now I see what the PC boats are also, thanks
Truitt Beal ran Hemi's as well as Duff Daily in the SK Class

[FLATS ONLY]

Thanks Ryan!!:cool

Here's the list of SK entries from a Marine Stadium race in 1964.
28069
Cecil Florence's boat won quite a few races in this era. He also ran a E Boat too

[Wheeler]

62

I think Rudy had an affection for 60's t-birds.

2913029131


Great looking boat!

[Sharp shooter]

Cecil Florence's boat won quite a few races in this era. He also ran a E Boat too

Hey Ben, it's good to see you over here. :thumbup:

[Sharp shooter]

This is compact? lol
'61

29222

[Sharp shooter]

61

29223

[Sharp shooter]

The big boat look has been hip since the early '60's! Who knew....? lol

29224

[Sharp shooter]

This boat sure looks wide to me. :)

'61

29225

[gn7]

This boat sure looks wide to me. :)

'61

29225
Funny, a Yamaha boat with Merc outboards.

[Sharp shooter]

Who's been here? Looks awesome!!

29226

29227

[CampbellCarl]

Funny, a Yamaha boat with Merc outboards.


Just guessing around here, gunnel to motor cutout 1', motor cutout 2', rear deck to inside of motor cutout 1' = 4' X2 = 8' plus maybe 2.5' for steps width = 10.5' beam?

21'r with a 10.5' beam would be exactly a 2:1 length to width ratio...........maybe them Yamaha dudes were on to something...

[Sharp shooter]

1967

29229

[Sharp shooter]

Early Dragboat race. '59

29230

[Sharp shooter]

1959

29231

[RyanPartridge]

1967

29229


Now that's beautiful.:smile:

[Sharp shooter]

Now that's beautiful.:smile:

Owners name was Charles Brown. True story. :D

[RyanPartridge]

Owners name was Charles Brown. True story. :D

Good Grief is a good name...

[Sharp shooter]

1960

29301

[gn7]

29307
29308

[Sharp shooter]

I guess that bottom one would be like a modern day STV. :) Never seen one before...

This is an outboard engine research and test boat.

29311

[Sharp shooter]

Woodpecker.

29312

[gn7]

Woodpecker.

29312
Cool picture.
Theres that mag driven fuel pump like on Panic Mouse. Damn that had to out some torsional strain on the camshaft!!
Shooter, did you twist of the pump drive on Hocho? Can you imagine driving the mag and the fuel pump?

Morse dry stack, naturally And a Morbet hydraulic throttle. Morse cables must not have been as smooth as they are today.

Strangest thing is, the blower still has the lip on this side to help "hang" the blower on the side of a diesel engine while to the bolts are installed. Usually that lip is machined away to match the other side. If you notice the ribs on the blower look very "deep" and taper out the very edge of the blower. When the blower case is machined off, those ribs are flat about the last 1" or so and the blower hold down bolts are closer to the edge of the case.
On the later 6-71, there were 2 tabs, on the early blowers it was one continuous lip.
Never seen a blower setup for racing with the lip still on the original GMC case. On some engines like Pontiacs, Olds, and SBC, the lip will hit the valve covers, so they usually all get machined off.
But my favorite is the chrome plated Home Depot water plumbing fittings. AN was simply tooooo expensive to use for water. But chroming brass fittings was cheap.
http://www.project33.com/carimages/blower2.jpg

[gn7]

Ray Caselli and Panic Mouse.

29313

[Sharp shooter]

Cool picture.
Theres that mag driven fuel pump like on Panic Mouse. Damn that had to out some torsional strain on the camshaft!!
Shooter, did you twist of the pump drive on Hocho? Can you imagine driving the mag and the fuel pump?

Morse dry stack, naturally And a Morbet hydraulic throttle. Morse cables must not have been as smooth as they are today.

Strangest thing is, the blower still has the lip on this side to help "hang" the blower on the side of a diesel engine while to the bolts are installed. Usually that lip is machined away to match the other side. If you notice the ribs on the blower look very "deep" and taper out the very edge of the blower. When the blower case is machined off, those ribs are flat about the last 1" or so and the blower hold down bolts are closer to the edge of the case.
On the later 6-71, there were 2 tabs, on the early blowers it was one continuous lip.
Never seen a blower setup for racing with the lip still on the original GMC case. On some engines like Pontiacs, Olds, and SBC, the lip will hit the valve covers, so they usually all get machined off.
But my favorite is the chrome plated Home Depot water plumbing fittings. AN was simply tooooo expensive to use for water. But chroming brass fittings was cheap.

All I can really say is you're amazing Bob. :D

Yes, I broke my pump drive and when I pulled the extension shaft out it was corkscrewed. I would guess the corkscrew twist happened over time but all that force probably would've been too much for a mag. :)

I don't know anything about those old blowers except that they were used on old school buses (among other things). I have seen the old brass water fittings many times and always thought they were kind of "mickey mouse."

[gn7]

All I can really say is you're amazing Bob. :D

Yes, I broke my pump drive and when I pulled the extension shaft out it was corkscrewed. I would guess the corkscrew twist happened over time but all that force probably would've been too much for a mag. :)

I don't know anything about those old blowers except that they were used on old school buses (among other things). I have seen the old brass water fittings many times and always thought they were kind of "mickey mouse."

The deacon trained me to pic thru the pictures. I never really looked all that close until he started looking at the smallest details on the Mouse project. I can see where you have to. They did some strange things back then.

Chrome plated brass plumping hardware was the buck$ up stuff. Plain jane brass or even galvanized was not unheard of on a "budget" deal. I can remember my uncles putting their flatties together with brass stuff, maybe polished to get rid on "brand" and casting look. Then have them pull a few off and have them chromed during the winter months. It was all about the "budget" then.
AN fitting were big bank. Bill's dad use to go to aircraft surplus places and buy surplus lines and cut the ends off, but then still had to buy the hose end and the adaptors. All he could use was the line itself. Big money. Even Rudy's Allison used black hydraulic line and crimped ends for most of the water stuff. And that was top drawer stuff. Stainless braid was almost unheard of.

Of course, we can never forget the cherry red clear fuel lines. This stuff was the shiznit back in the day. Mooneyes still sells this stuff.
29314

[Wheeler]

Woodpecker.

29312


I haven't seen that pic in about 50 years.
Thanks Jerry!

[gn7]

So why did some of the earliest drag boats run off the snout. They had to know it wasn't as strong and the flywheel flange, and they didn't need it for turning on a circle course anymore than a drag boat does today. So what was the reason????

[Wheeler]

So why did some of the earliest drag boats run off the snout. They had to know it wasn't as strong and the flywheel flange, and they didn't need it for turning on a circle course anymore than a drag boat does today. So what was the reason????

Because we are north of the equator, eh? :hmmm:

[gn7]

Because we are north of the equator, eh? :hmmm:

And NOW we are south, so they now run virtually all drag boats off the flywheel flange, even if they are just carbed gas deals compared blown injected alky/nitro deals in the late 50s?

[Wheeler]

And NOW we are south, so they now run virtually all drag boats off the flywheel flange, even if they are just carbed gas deals compared blown injected alky/nitro deals in the late 50s?

I imagine that it's something simple and logical like a casting or an ignition or maybe it has to do with Reynolds #'s. I just don't know!

I'm tired of racking my brain Bob and I now have a headache from over use so would you just answer you own question so I can get some sleep! please. :)

[westair]

Maybe it just seemed strange to them mounting an engine backwards:biggrin:

[Sharp shooter]

So why did some of the earliest drag boats run off the snout. They had to know it wasn't as strong and the flywheel flange, and they didn't need it for turning on a circle course anymore than a drag boat does today. So what was the reason????

Woodpecker is a circle boat Bob, remember....? :D

[CampbellCarl]

So why did some of the earliest drag boats run off the snout. They had to know it wasn't as strong and the flywheel flange, and they didn't need it for turning on a circle course anymore than a drag boat does today. So what was the reason????



I know that this is really reaching but I have also pondered the question. One conclusion that I have is that it was done to keep the oil sump and pump toward the back of the boat and eliminating the need for a new oil pan and pickup arrangment.

I dunno...

[gn7]

I imagine that it's something simple and logical like a casting or an ignition or maybe it has to do with Reynolds #'s. I just don't know!

I'm tired of racking my brain Bob and I now have a headache from over use so would you just answer you own question so I can get some sleep! please. :)
Don't feel alone, it drove me crazy for years, so I finally sucked up my ignorance and asked Rudy WTF??

Maybe it just seemed strange to them mounting an engine backwards:biggrin:
They were backwards in crackers, PDOHs and hydros long before flats, so I don't think it bothered then to install an engine backwards.

Woodpecker is a circle boat Bob, remember....? :D

Oh yeah, DUH!:hilarious:



Before V drive flat bottoms, virtually all high speed boats were crackers or hydros with direct drive. There were V drive boats but they tended to be semi planning displacement boats like Chris Crafts and Hackers. Not exactly rockets on the water. Direct drive boats almost always have the engine in backwards because the engine is installed on the same angle as the prop shaft, which is a pretty steep angle. The flywheel has to be to the front, just to get the crankshaft center line low enough to hook to the propshaft. Imagine a cracker with the flywheel to the rear and you can imagine how high the engine would have to sit. By turning the engine around, and putting it on the prop shaft angle, the flywheel almost automatically clears.

So all the best props and development for high speed use in the early days of v drive flats were for the boats with direct drive. V drive flats were an up coming oddity. If you drive a boat thru a v drive, you have to drive it off the nose to use the same props. It was better in a circle boat anyways, and in a drag boat it was just cheaper and easier to run off the snout.
Flywheel forward started to really take hold when the FE Ford became popular because the snout on the cast crank FEs couldn't take it, and they had to run off the flywheel. About the same time, the drag boats were making to much power for the snouts to drive the boat and the high over drive blower, and they were forced to follow suit,

Originally running v drive flats off the nose was strictly due to available props.

[Wheeler]

Don't feel alone, it drove me crazy for years, so I finally sucked up my ignorance and asked Rudy WTF??

They were backwards in crackers, PDOHs and hydros long before flats, so I don't think it bothered then to install an engine backwards.


Oh yeah, DUH!:hilarious:




Thanks Bob! I'll sleep better tonight. :thumb:

[GotHalos]

Thread of the year :thumbup:

[Sharp shooter]

Thread of the year :thumbup:

Right on. :)

1960 19 foot Chris Craft with 283 chevy.
29406

[Sharp shooter]

A true "inboard outboard". :D

29407

[Sharp shooter]

29409

29410

[Sharp shooter]

'61

29411

[Sharp shooter]

Another -inboard outboard. :D

29425

[gn7]

29410

That's an early one. I wonder how many boats the Stearns bought from Rudy. Had to have a few.

[GotHalos]

29409

29410


:thumbup:

[gn7]

Caselli and Panic Mouse

29443

[gn7]

Very early Hondo:biggrin:
29444

[westair]

29409

29410

Really a cool old ad .... when the different manufactures were competing against each other on the race course and claiming titles to sell their boats.

[westair]

Very early Hondo:biggrin:
29444

Cool looking boat .... looks a little like a Rayson Craft

[gn7]

Cool looking boat .... looks a little like a Rayson Craft

For the most part it is Irv Brendel's version of an original wood Mandella. So were Raysons, with change to the entry that would have extremely difficult to do in wood, but being glass, it was no problem with the Rayson.

[RPB]

Caselli and Panic Mouse

29443

WOW...almost unreal

[Havasuing]

Not sure how many Rayson Crafts Bill and Chuck Stearns had, but somewhere in the mid to later 1960s Stearns switched over to Aqua Craft for his ski race boat. I used to occasionally drive their old all-white #3 Aqua Craft (which was a lightweight Unicore hull with a Gus Davis 427 hi-riser Ford) at the ski races when Bill's hip and leg were really bothering him. Not sure why, but Stearns' Unicore Aqua Craft was the only hull of that type that didn't seem to have a bottom problem. Several of the other Unicore Aqua Crafts of that vintage were constantly repairing the bottom. When they ran, they were fast.

[GotHalos]

Caselli and Panic Mouse

29443


Wow. Crazy.

[CampbellCarl]

A true "inboard outboard". :D

29407


I recall being told that the 'inboard-outboard' shown here (I think called a dory) was done to keep the engine away from 'following-seas'. The waves were faster than the boats and would 'push' the boat and sometimes overwhelm and kill the air that the engine needed.

[CampbellCarl]

'61

29411



The story told in Campbell circles is that in developement of the 'Martini', Billy and Bobby desired a hull type that would allow an owner to make a run to and from Catalina without spilling a martini.....

[Sharp shooter]

I recall being told that the 'inboard-outboard' shown here (I think called a dory) was done to keep the engine away from 'following-seas'. The waves were faster than the boats and would 'push' the boat and sometimes overwhelm and kill the air that the engine needed.

Sounds reasonable. I wonder how they sealed the floor where the lower unit dropped through....?


The story told in Campbell circles is that in developement of the 'Martini', Billy and Bobby desired a hull type that would allow an owner to make a run to and from Catalina without spilling a martini.....

They must have been joking if this is true... right? I'm definitely no Campbell expert, but all the Campbells I've seen (if they weren't flattys) only have a slight v. Maybe they were thinking on those rare days where the ocean is really calm with just a little gin in a really tall glass. :D

[gn7]

WOW...almost unreal


Wow. Crazy.

That single shot does look a little crazy. But the reality is its not as crazy as it appears. If you look closely, the 2 boats have already had contact and there is damage on the side the #69 Sanger as hull damage on the left side slightly obscured by the water spray caused by the damaged hull.
If I remember correctly the Sanger crossed in front of Caselli and he hit the Sanger, jumping over it. But I could be mistaken on the exact events.
29470
29471
29472

[2manymustangs]

That single shot does look a little crazy. But the reality is its not as crazy as it appears. If you look closely, the 2 boats have already had contact and there is damage on the side the #69 Sanger as hull damage on the left side slightly obscured by the water spray caused by the damaged hull.
If I remember correctly the Sanger crossed in front of Caselli and he hit the Sanger, jumping over it. But I could be mistaken on the exact events.
29470
29471
29472

Bob, any idea about how many times Ray had bad crashes or got wet??? Im guessing the above crash wasnt when he lost his life, was it???

[gn7]

I have no idea how many times Caselli got wet, but I am not mistaken, the one restored Mouse is the only one he didn't destroy if you count the last one as well. I think maybe 4 Panic Mouse boats were built.

No, this is not the accident that took his life. That was a single boat accident just after he crossed the finish line, winning the race.

[2manymustangs]

i have no idea how many times caselli got wet, but i am not mistaken, the one restored mouse is the only one he didn't destroy if you count the last one as well. I think maybe 4 panic mouse boats were built.

No, this is not the accident that took his life. That was a single boat accident just after he crossed the finish line, winning the race.

wow :(

[gn7]

Hey 2MM, if the mere sight of a SOHC gives you a woody, I figure just looking at this should have you telling the kids to leave the room before you do something lewd and lascivious.


You just know these guys are thinking, "OK, we have spent a bazillion dollars on this morphidite, I sure hope this makes this pile competitive or Henry the 2nd is going to have out asses."
29473

[2manymustangs]

Hey 2MM, if the mere sight of a SOHC gives you a woody, I figure just looking at this should have you telling the kids to leave the room before you do something lewd and lascivious.


You just know these guys are thinking, "OK, we have spent a bazillion dollars on this morphidite, I sure hope this makes this pile competitive or Henry the 2nd is going to have out asses."
29473

I like it, that will do nicely... When can I pick it up for my hydro???

[gn7]

I like it, that will do nicely... When can I pick it up for my hydro???

Sorry Bruce, but that animal made soooooo much power that they could only sell them to highly trained professionals, and even then it proved to be completely uncontrollable and they were forced to destroy the tooling to avoid litigation.

AND IF YOU BUY THE COCK AND BULL STORY, I HAVE A BRIDGE IN BROOKLYN FOR SALE. I'LL EVEN THROW IN SOME MAGIC BEANS.

However, if you are willing to give up a few HP over that Cammer, N/A on gasoline, you could always turbo the hell of one of these and put it on nitro and get close to the power:speechless-smiley-0

https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSkh98UEzvqQ6NketsbLgIYNy9vsIF15 ZEsh6w0op2eLyPyJ4nvEw


Personally, I think they both belong right were they ended up, IN THE LITTER BOX WITH THE REST OF THE SHIT.

[2manymustangs]

Sorry Bruce, but that animal made soooooo much power that they could only sell them to highly trained professionals, and even then it proved to be completely uncontrollable and they were forced to destroy the tooling to avoid litigation.

AND IF YOU BUY THE COCK AND BULL STORY, I HAVE A BRIDGE IN BROOKLYN FOR SALE. I'LL EVEN THROW IN SOME MAGIC BEANS.

;)





......

[westair]

I have no idea how many times Caselli got wet, but I am not mistaken, the one restored Mouse is the only one he didn't destroy if you count the last one as well. I think maybe 4 Panic Mouse boats were built.

No, this is not the accident that took his life. That was a single boat accident just after he crossed the finish line, winning the race.

I read that his boat he crashed and died in was the new Hondo T-deck or GT Deck that he just helped design to make it safer for the drivers, I think it said it wasn't even painted yet.
Although I guess there is some confusion on whether Ray ever ran a t-deck or not.

[CampbellCarl]

Sounds reasonable. I wonder how they sealed the floor where the lower unit dropped through....?



They must have been joking if this is true... right? I'm definitely no Campbell expert, but all the Campbells I've seen (if they weren't flattys) only have a slight v. Maybe they were thinking on those rare days where the ocean is really calm with just a little gin in a really tall glass. :D


There was an actual well created in the floor. Picture a four sided box (open top and bottom) glassed into the floor. Then remove the floor from within the box and drop an outboard into the box and mounting it to the forward wall of the box.

I never said the Martini story was true. Only that it is rumored to have been Billy and Bobby's goal to create a cruiser so smooth that passengers might enjoy a martini on the way over and back.

[steveo143]

I read that his boat he crashed and died in was the new Hondo T-deck or GT Deck that he just helped design to make it safer for the drivers, I think it said it wasn't even painted yet.
Although I guess there is some confusion on whether Ray ever ran a t-deck or not.

Ray created the 1st T deck, he took a chain saw to a new boat and cut it to his likeing and said fix it. This is the best thread on all the boating forums by the way, hope it keeps going!!!!!!!!!!!

[gn7]

Ray created the 1st T deck, he took a chain saw to a new boat and cut it to his likeing and said fix it. This is the best thread on all the boating forums by the way, hope it keeps going!!!!!!!!!!!

As I remember it, came up with it after Larry Schwabenland's accident.

Imagine, a boating thread like this being popular on a boat site. Who'd a thunk it.

[Sharp shooter]

Imagine, a boating thread like this being popular on a boat site. Who'd a thunk it.

Lol!!!!

-------------------------------------------------------------

I believe this is the boat ray died in it was a t-deck. The 1st T-decks I've seen were 73 hulls and Ray died March of '73


http://www.narberthpa.com/Bale/bmp/dbc/RCaselli/caselli_03_ico.jpg

Copy/paste from the Drag Boat and Water speed record racer memorial page.

Ray Caselli


Born: November 4, 1933

Died: March 18, 1973


Buried:

Age: 39

Full Name: Raymond Caselli

Nickname:

Location: Oakland Marine Stadium, California

Event: American Powerboat Spring National Championships

Accident Date: March 18, 1973

Boat: "Panic Mouse" blown fuel flatbottom

Biographical: Just after winning his race at a speed of 131.38 MPH, the boat started riding on its side and then nosed into the water. It was thought that he may have broken a rudder. He was thrown clear of the boat and his emergency parachute opened, but hit the water at a bad angle on his neck. It was a freak accident. He was transported to Alameda Hospital where he died five hours after the crash. He was a former world record holder from Reseda, California. Just a week earlier he had won the blown fuel flatbottom class during the California Drag Boat Championships at Long Beach with a speed of 144 MPH.


Sources

"Drag racer dies in Oakland crash," Hayward Daily Review, March 20, 1973

"Boat driver dies in flip," Long Beach Press-Telegram, March 20, 1973

[Donnell Culpepper column], Long Beach Press-Telegram, March 21, 1973

"Crash claims boat racer," Bryan Times, March 20, 1973

"Racer killed," Ellensburg Daily Record, March 20, 1973

Social Security Death Index (Raymond Caselli, born Nov. 4, 1933, died Mar. 1973, SS# issued in Illinois)

[Sharp shooter]

This is the best thread on all the boating forums by the way, hope it keeps going!!!!!!!!!!!

Thanks Steve!

I'll do my part to keep it rolling at least for a while I'm off work. Hopefully others with keep it going too. I am going to start loading up some more videos to my youtube channel soon so that will take away some of my time from here.

[Sharp shooter]

I have no idea how many times Caselli got wet, but I am not mistaken, the one restored Mouse is the only one he didn't destroy if you count the last one as well. I think maybe 4 Panic Mouse boats were built.



Panic mouse boats not including the Guasti.

http://www.v-drivevideo.net/pictures/albums/b/EZ_lift.jpg

http://www.v-drivevideo.net/pictures/albums/userpics/007_1967_PB_part_2.jpg


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7BOO9QWloqc


http://www.performanceboats.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=80979&d=1280247357

http://www.v-drivevideo.net/pictures/albums/userpics/normal_mousewoody.jpg

http://www.v-drivevideo.net/pictures/albums/userpics/normal_Blevens_archives_003.jpg

http://www.narberthpa.com/Bale/bmp/dbc/RCaselli/caselli_03_ico.jpg

[gn7]

29480
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[Sharp shooter]

'62

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[gn7]

I've always wondered if this is the same boat. Its for sale back east, I'd love to have this thing to run in the SE class
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[Sharp shooter]

I've always wondered if this is the same boat. Its for sale back east, I'd love to have this thing to run in the SE class

It looks like it could be....?

http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb39/Roadroamer1/longbeachdrags61_zps4cef73c1.jpg (http://s208.photobucket.com/user/Roadroamer1/media/longbeachdrags61_zps4cef73c1.jpg.html)

[CampbellCarl]

Looks to me like the one that Bob posted is a center deck (mid-deck) deal while the race boat doesn't appear to have that. Perhaps added later?

[gn7]

Looks to me like the one that Bob posted is a center deck (mid-deck) deal while the race boat doesn't appear to have that. Perhaps added later?

Good eye. It is possable that the center deck was added. When you look at the race boat it has braces where the center deck would be. It is possible that a center deck was added, IF IT IS THE SAME BOAT. The braces may have saved weight over having a center deck.

Not sure how much power that baby hemi put out, but I bet it wasn't the hot setup long after that was built. Small block Chevies really started to come into their own right around 63 with the introduction of the 327 and the bigger heads. But it sure has more appeal with the hemi and six 2s then any SBC, regardless the power that mini hemi made.

[2manymustangs]

As I remember it, came up with it after Larry Schwabenland's accident.

Imagine, a boating thread like this being popular on a boat site. Who'd a thunk it.

:) who'd a thunk it???

[Sharp shooter]

1960

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[Wendi]

Sharp shooter you have quite the library of photographs I'm impressed. Thank you for sharing with all of us

[Sharp shooter]

Sharp shooter you have quite the library of photographs I'm impressed. Thank you for sharing with all of us

Thanks Wendi! I'm just scanning these from old magazines (most of them anyway). :)

[gn7]

WOW, I thought that house boat engine had it's work cut out for it with that 45 HP or so 4 cylinder Merc. But that toon boat's engine is REALLY pushing the envelope with that little wacker.. Guess nobody was in too much of hurry in those things back then, just so long as they did move. ;)

[Wheeler]

I hope Vin is not in any of these. ;)

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[westair]

Those are some good old pics Wheeler! Any idea how many guys have drivin the Climax BFH, seems like a quite few over the years. Nice find on the Verns Marine Hondo Boats receipt ... Vern Amaral was the guy in the BFF Sanger that crashed with Caselli a couple pages back here

[Sharp shooter]

Mighty Ray.

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[Sharp shooter]

Cheyenne Cruisers on their way to be delivered.

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[Sharp shooter]

These are good rags.

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[Sharp shooter]

Inside.

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[Sharp shooter]

Sanger super JET.

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[CampbellCarl]

Kings River, Highway 99 in the background.....Riverland Resort (?)....unsure of the resort name.

[Sharp shooter]

http://www.v-drivevideo.net/pictures/albums/userpics/Climax2.jpg

[Sharp shooter]

http://www.v-drivevideo.net/pictures/albums/b/v-drive_ads_028.jpg

[doubleeagle]

Here is a couple more from Arrow Craft Boats our familys first Boat Company.
The first 3 are a 13'6 Lancer with a pair of Merc 78's Jim Macillwain and my uncle George Trevett in the first one and Jim and my Dad Clarke Trevett in the other 3
The last one is the same model with a single 58

[CampbellCarl]

Great pix! Looks like the ArrowCraft didn't like to 'roll' over onto plane without a little help.....LOL

[westair]

Good stuff on Climax .... lot of history with that boat and those two drivers. Pretty much made Sanger boats at that time.

[Sharp shooter]

'75

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[Sharp shooter]

Connelly

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[Sharp shooter]

'75

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[Sanger_Spectra]

Here are some oldies
*My Dads Cracker Box, they called it "Steam Pot" was a late 50's Champion Hull with a Nail Head Buick. My dad and uncle built the deck on this, my brother who will be 60 in March is sitting on the trunk in one of the pictures.
*Late 50's Mandella with a Caddy, was a good friends boat, Richard Dyt, had really nice stuff!
*69 Sanger with a Boss 9 motor, Dad and Brother bought this together in 1979 or 80, under restoration currently.
*61' or 62' Howard, if I am correct this was the first or second Glass boat out of Howards mold. Same friend with the Mandella owned this one and it was full custom. Had a Keith Black stroker 392 and everything was custom made, they used it as a show boat and towed with a matching 63 Corvette owned by the Brother Andy Dyt. Boat was painted by Junior. Unfortunatly the boat burned to the water in the early 80's, it floated down the river on fire and burned back just befor the engine and went under, engine is in tack and in my brothers garage, just waiting for a project, the full transom with all hardware is hanging in my dads garage, was a stunning boat.

[Sharp shooter]

Here are some oldies
*My Dads Cracker Box, they called it "Steam Pot" was a late 50's Champion Hull with a Nail Head Buick. My dad and uncle built the deck on this, my brother who will be 60 in March is sitting on the trunk in one of the pictures.
*Late 50's Mandella with a Caddy, was a good friends boat, Richard Dyt, had really nice stuff!
*69 Sanger with a Boss 9 motor, Dad and Brother bought this together in 1979 or 80, under restoration currently.
*61' or 62' Howard, if I am correct this was the first or second Glass boat out of Howards mold. Same friend with the Mandella owned this one and it was full custom. Had a Keith Black stroker 392 and everything was custom made, they used it as a show boat and towed with a matching 63 Corvette owned by the Brother Andy Dyt. Boat was painted by Junior. Unfortunatly the boat burned to the water in the early 80's, it floated down the river on fire and burned back just befor the engine and went under, engine is in tack and in my brothers garage, just waiting for a project, the full transom with all hardware is hanging in my dads garage, was a stunning boat.

THATS WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT!!! Great pics and details!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Looking forward to the '69 getting done!:thumbsUp:

[Wendi]

Awesome pics Sanger spectra

[Wheeler]

A friends '66 wood deck flatty.

Any guess on the make??

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[doubleeagle]

Great pix! Looks like the ArrowCraft didn't like to 'roll' over onto plane without a little help.....LOL

Yea something about 300 lbs of outboards hanging off the back of a 14' boat with 40 gallons of fuel and 22 pitch props and a hell of alot of rocker. When she rolled over it was doing 40 mph

[doubleeagle]

A couple more for today

18' Cabin Cruiser this is at Pier Point Landing in Long beach Grandpa and the boys would set up demo days to take customers for rides.My dad at the Helm mom in the black outfit The other boat in the shot is also a Arrow Craft. The cabin on this was Fiberglass first use of glass in our shop.
Here,s a Lancer just out of the spray booth the insides were finish just like the deck and sides.
Grandpa getting his boat train ready to haul from Factory to our retail outlet
This is a Vandal new model for 1958 notice the raised deck.It was 16' to handle the new Tower of Power Mercs
The larger boat behind the Ranchero is the Cabin Cruiser with out the cabin called it a Sport Fisher

[westair]

Here are some oldies
*My Dads Cracker Box, they called it "Steam Pot" was a late 50's Champion Hull with a Nail Head Buick. My dad and uncle built the deck on this, my brother who will be 60 in March is sitting on the trunk in one of the pictures.
*Late 50's Mandella with a Caddy, was a good friends boat, Richard Dyt, had really nice stuff!
*69 Sanger with a Boss 9 motor, Dad and Brother bought this together in 1979 or 80, under restoration currently.
*61' or 62' Howard, if I am correct this was the first or second Glass boat out of Howards mold. Same friend with the Mandella owned this one and it was full custom. Had a Keith Black stroker 392 and everything was custom made, they used it as a show boat and towed with a matching 63 Corvette owned by the Brother Andy Dyt. Boat was painted by Junior. Unfortunatly the boat burned to the water in the early 80's, it floated down the river on fire and burned back just befor the engine and went under, engine is in tack and in my brothers garage, just waiting for a project, the full transom with all hardware is hanging in my dads garage, was a stunning boat.

Some great old pics! thanks ..... also I think the Sanger you own was one of the nicest looking hulls ever made by any manufacture, having one could be my next project as soon as I finish the one I'm on.

[CampbellCarl]

A couple more for today

18' Cabin Cruiser this is at Pier Point Landing in Long beach Grandpa and the boys would set up demo days to take customers for rides.My dad at the Helm mom in the black outfit The other boat in the shot is also a Arrow Craft. The cabin on this was Fiberglass first use of glass in our shop.
Here,s a Lancer just out of the spray booth the insides were finish just like the deck and sides.
Grandpa getting his boat train ready to haul from Factory to our retail outlet
This is a Vandal new model for 1958 notice the raised deck.It was 16' to handle the new Tower of Power Mercs
The larger boat behind the Ranchero is the Cabin Cruiser with out the cabin called it a Sport Fisher



So Grampa's boat train was one mounted to the Ranchero and two (2) in tow? Very VERY cool pix! Thanx!

[doubleeagle]

So Grampa's boat train was one mounted to the Ranchero and two (2) in tow? Very VERY cool pix! Thanx!

Yea we rented the mafacturing shop in Anaheim that my Dad and his brothers all worked at. Grandpa and Grandma ran the Retail store in West Anaheim on the corner of Lincoln and Manchester it was a old fruit and vegetable stand with a great big lot behind it. The front of the store didn't have doors it had two great big tilt up doors with poles attached it took 2 guys to open one would grab the pole while the other would push the door up when it got up the other guy would swivel the pole down and stick it in the hole to hold it up. The factory was about 5 miles from the shop and on Thursdays grandpa would start picking up what ever boats were ready to go so he had new inventory for the weekend. Grandpa signed up as the first Mercury dealer in southern Calif in 1954 he bought 2 Merc 30 hp outboards. If you go to Fiber Classic and search Arrow Craft you can see a Mercury Boat House Bullentin on a 1954 or 1955 runabout that was part of the deal for becoming a dealer. Those boat were built in grandpas garage until he burnt it down which is why grandma told him he needed to get a regular shop so he got 2 a factory and a retail store. The store in Anaheim later became West Anaheim Marine and was part of the mid to late 60,s Glastron race program it continued until the the 80,s.

[Sharp shooter]

'75
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[Sharp shooter]

lol!!

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[Havasuing]

Glastron had a pretty good stable of boat drivers back in the late 1960s and early 70s. The trio out of West Anaheim Marine were among the best -- Jim Macillwain, Jim Clinkenbeard and Bob Ogle won some serious races. They also had some competition from San Bernardino Glastron dealer, Bob Spratte.

[Havasuing]

Anyone know the name of the ski vest model in the photo above? Hint....he went on to become a major executive at a national boat company and is still very involved in the water ski industry.

[gn7]

Glastron had a pretty good stable of boat drivers back in the late 1960s and early 70s. The trio out of West Anaheim Marine were among the best -- Jim Macillwain, Jim Clinkenbeard and Bob Ogle won some serious races. They also had some competition from San Bernardino Glastron dealer, Bob Spratte.

What, no mention of Bob Hammond or Ray Atwood? Rudy told me that before he built the Allison, the Glastron V drives were some of the most feared boats in the Salton Sea 500, Parker and Orange Bowl 9hrs.
Ray Atwood won the 1963 Marathon with a Mercruiser I/O, and the outboards took 1st and 2nd in the OB class at Salton Sea in 63.

Around 69 Bob Hammond ran a Marine Power outdrive behind a injected BBC in in the Speed Classic endures with full cavitation plates and a v bottom cruiser that I swear partly the inspiration for the Rayson 21. Rudy had a lot of respect for Bob Hammond and those Glastrons.

I can remember seeing them test once or twice at Parker with the Holman and Moody powered V drives, and those things hauled ass.

[Havasuing]

I don't think Bob Hammond ever raced any of the outboard powered Glastrons -- only the inboard V-drive one, and it was fast. Bob was an aeronautical engineer by education and very savvy when it came to boats. Mel Whitley was responsible for vitually all of the Glastron design work out of the Austin plant and Art Carlson did his thing here in Orange County on the Glastron Carlson side of things. They were a very talented duo -- one of the main reasons Glastron became the largest production builder of recreational powerboats in the world at one time. They actually produced 100 complete boats during a single day of production. Very sad the way Glastron treated Bob in the early 70s and forced him out of the company. Things were never the same (or as good) after he was gone.

[papaletch4130]

lol!!

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Does that happen to be a young Kenny Wilcoxin??

[westair]

I saved this pic awhile back, probably posted by SS but hopefully not in this thread:biggrin:, I never read the whole 29862story behind it until now. If I read it right, this Catalina sitting out front is the Canadian Hondo.... this is back in the 60's and California Marine is in Canada. Somehow he got connected with Brendell and started making Hondo's for him and then started his own line with the Hondo molds (Catalina). This place is still in business.

[Sharp shooter]

Does that happen to be a young Kenny Wilcoxin??

That was right before Kenny came out of the closet. :)

[gn7]

Does that happen to be a young Kenny Wilcoxin??
If it is, then Havasuing is VERY mistaken who that is. Kenny was NEVER a executive with a national boat company.:biggrin:
Compared to Kenny, that guy has the hands of girl.


That was right before Kenny came out of the closet. :)

:yikes:

[Havasuing]

No, that's not Kenny! It's Larry Meddock, the former vice president of marketing for Corrrect Craft/Ski Nautique, and now the executive director of the WaterSports Industry Association. Larry's one and only time as a model (pre Corrrect Craft days).

[Wheeler]

Old school V-Drive.

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[gn7]

Old school V-Drive.

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Looks more like a "W" drive for dual counter rotating props.
I didn't know that Marbet made stuff like that.

[Wheeler]

Looks more like a "W" drive for dual counter rotating props.
I didn't know that Marbet made stuff like that.


V or a double V or is it an M, I just don't know. The person that owns it called it a V-drive so I went with it.

It belongs in this boat, '55 twin screw Mandella.

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[CampbellCarl]

Guessing....output shaft of engine is the third leg of a triangle and drives a chain from above to the two outer inputs of the box then each inner shaft is driving a prop shaft? They seem pretty close for that to work. How else?

Dave Sammons' work bench?

[gn7]

V or a double V or is it an M, I just don't know. The person that owns it called it a V-drive so I went with it.

It belongs in this boat, '55 twin screw Mandella.

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I only called it that because that's what they call them on the TFHs today.
If that's a 55 Mandella, they are more similar to a Rayson that I thought they were when Joe died. The entry on that thing is a dead ringer for an early Rayson.

Guessing....output shaft of engine is the third leg of a triangle and drives a chain from above to the two outer inputs of the box then each inner shaft is driving a prop shaft? They seem pretty close for that to work. How else?

Dave Sammons' work bench?

I have no clue Carl. That's not how they work or look today. That setup would have the props turning the same direction. Not sure how it works, but the chain setup is very interesting. My guess is, its 1 to 1 ratio.

Today its one input direct to a output, plus one idler to an output, making the outputs turn in opposite directions.