The really "Old School" boating thread

[2manymustangs]

I only called it that because that's what they call them on the TFHs today.
If that's a 55 Mandella, they are more similar to a Rayson that I thought they were when Joe died. The entry on that thing is a dead ringer for an early Rayson.


I have no clue Carl. That's not how they work or look today. That setup would have the props turning the same direction. Not sure how it works, but the chain setup is very interesting. My guess is, its 1 to 1 ratio.

Today its one input direct to a output, plus one idler to an output, making the outputs turn in opposite directions.

Hey Bob or others, would you be kind enough to post up a good photo of a conventional Casale V-drive box on the bench AND installed IF you have some good pics? Something showing the IN and OUT??? Pretty please??? OR maybe even an OLD HallCraft box / toploader / water cooled???

Some of the audience may not be familiar with the simplicity and ruggedNESS OR the quick change of gears in the V-drive install/design... :)

[Skyskier]

A friends '66 wood deck flatty.

Any guess on the make??

29805298062980729808298092981029811

Looks like one of that cabinet maker, Marvin Zepede, he had a cabinet shop in Paramount back in the early '60's an he lived in Whiitier,an WAS gonna go into the boat biz.......and Then again, it Might be one of Gaylord's early boat's ?.....................definately NOT a Sanger.............just my .02 cent's worth.

[CampbellCarl]

Bob, what if it also had an interior chain that ran under one ouput shaft and then over the other side.....that might counter rotate the outputs....I dunno..

[Wheeler]

Looks like one of that cabinet maker, Marvin Zepede, he had a cabinet shop in Paramount back in the early '60's an he lived in Whiitier,an WAS gonna go into the boat biz.......and Then again, it Might be one of Gaylord's early boat's ?.....................definately NOT a Sanger.............just my .02 cent's worth.

You are correct on a couple points. The boat is not a Sanger, the builder did live in Whittier and was a cabinet maker.


Carl should know what make of boat it is. :wink:

[gn7]

You are correct on a couple points. The boat is not a Sanger, the builder did live in Whittier and was a cabinet maker.


Carl should know what make of boat it is. :wink:

You can rule out Gaylord.

[Wheeler]

If that's a 55 Mandella, they are more similar to a Rayson that I thought they were when Joe died. The entry on that thing is a dead ringer for an early Rayson.


I'll try to find a better pic of the Mandella.

Pic of inside the drive.

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[gn7]

That's about what I expected to see once you showed the input/output side.


Nothing says both inputs had to hook to the engine. Hook one input to the engine, the other acts an idler, you could use the shaft to drive something if wanted.

Coupling outputs to prop shafts with chains and sprockets was common as dirt in those days. Still is used in hydros and some crackers.

https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcStt80V8zMC2BcOuVCTyj8hVB_xWGqkd iVi0P_d4wYOfr6YALZ8Zg

[Sharp shooter]

There were quite a few v-drive gear box manufacturers in the late 50's/early 60's. I've never seen most of them.

http://www.v-drivevideo.net/pictures/albums/userpics/Precision_Glide64.jpg

[CampbellCarl]

You are correct on a couple points. The boat is not a Sanger, the builder did live in Whittier and was a cabinet maker.


Carl should know what make of boat it is. :wink:


Drawing a blank here.....Nescher?

[Sharp shooter]

If anyone is capable of writing a book about the good old days of performance boating it's the guy pictured left. :cool

29923

[gn7]

There were quite a few v-drive gear box manufacturers in the late 50's/early 60's. I've never seen most of them.



Tom Davis used a Precision V Glide in a 430 Lincoln powered Patterson to win the first Parker 9 hr.

Bob Patterson rigged Bill Ritners boat that was the first V drive flat to win the Orange Bowl 9hr in 1959.

The strong and quite. But heavy as hell and harder to assemble than a C 500 Casale.

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[2manymustangs]

That's about what I expected to see once you showed the input/output side.


Nothing says both inputs had to hook to the engine. Hook one input to the engine, the other acts an idler, you could use the shaft to drive something if wanted.

Coupling outputs to prop shafts with chains and sprockets was common as dirt in those days. Still is used in hydros and some crackers.

https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcStt80V8zMC2BcOuVCTyj8hVB_xWGqkd iVi0P_d4wYOfr6YALZ8Zg

I thought this coupling was the standard deal on crackers from the ones I stuck my nose in, what other couplings do they use???

[Sharp shooter]

Tom Davis used a Precision V Glide in a 430 Lincoln powered Patterson to win the first Parker 9 hr.

Bob Patterson rigged Bill Ritners boat that was the first V drive flat to win the Orange Bowl 9hr in 1959.

The strong and quite. But heavy as hell and harder to assemble than a C 500 Casale.



It looks heavy!!

[gn7]

I thought this coupling was the standard deal on crackers from the ones I stuck my nose in, what other couplings do they use???

There are a couple that use a in/out and whirlaway tail piece from Casale mounted to the cross member that tales the prop shaft thrust.

While you are sticking your nose in boats, stick it in P94 the next time you see it,

[2manymustangs]

There are a couple that use a in/out and whirlaway tail piece from Casale mounted to the cross member that tales the prop shaft thrust.

OOOOOoo, tricky... MUCH better that way than not having any IN/OUT or prop release... Nice... :)

[Skyskier]

Tom Davis used a Precision V Glide in a 430 Lincoln powered Patterson to win the first Parker 9 hr.

Bob Patterson rigged Bill Ritners boat that was the first V drive flat to win the Orange Bowl 9hr in 1959.

The strong and quite. But heavy as hell and harder to assemble than a C 500 Casale.

29924

Tom Davis's Patterson was So Rare ?

[gn7]

Tom Davis's Patterson was So Rare ?

:thumbup:

[Sharp shooter]

Bill Brandenburg said Pattersons were originally named after songs.

[Wheeler]

Drawing a blank here.....Nescher?


Here you Carl. George Temple was the builder.

29940

[Wheeler]

If that's a 55 Mandella, they are more similar to a Rayson that I thought they were when Joe died. The entry on that thing is a dead ringer for an early Rayson.





Here you go Bob.

29943

[gn7]

Here you go Bob.

I don't remember there being that much gull in the entry from the keel to the chine line of the Mandella's. Doesn't seem that Harlan's new "1958" boat has that gull and is flatter from the keel to the chine.

This thing has a definite gull in the entry. You can see the curve in the bottom even at these angles. Its one of the dead give aways of an early Rayson.
http://www.vintageraceboatshop.com/HarlanOrrin_files/image028.jpg
http://www.vintageraceboatshop.com/HarlanOrrin_files/image032.jpg

FIRST PLYWOOD v DRIVE MANDELLA
29949

FIRST RAYSON HULL
29950


Basically the same Rayson hull. The gull is much easier to see.
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29953


Love to know how the 2nd input was used, if it was. Only one U joint hanging from a input here, and the other doesn't look like it ever had anything hooked to it.

http://www.vintageraceboatshop.com/HarlanOrrin_files/image004.jpg
http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh299/philspruit/orrin_1955_mandella_2.jpg
http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh299/philspruit/orrin_1955_mandella_3.jpg

[gn7]

Bill Brandenburg said Pattersons were originally named after songs.

Don't think that could apply to customers boats. Not sure "So Rare" was a song and WaWa was a on going name with Bill Ritner.

If it is Patterson owned boats, Cinders, Hot Cinders and Super Cinders? Miss Bahia? Sparkler?

[SnoC653]

Don't think that could apply to customers boats. Not sure "So Rare" was a song and WaWa was a on going name with Bill Ritner.

If it is Patterson owned boats, Cinders, Hot Cinders and Super Cinders? Miss Bahia? Sparkler?

The WaWa Too was Bill's 266 hydroplane, I'm not sure if he ever had a WaWa without the too in the name. As far as I remember all his hydroplanes were too's. He seemd to like that name and apparently he liked Vic's engines, since Vic built the 265s that were in the hydroplanes for Bill. Vic Jr has the WaWa Too in his museum now.

[gn7]

The WaWa Too was Bill's 266 hydroplane, I'm not sure if he ever had a WaWa without the too in the name. As far as I remember all his hydroplanes were too's. He seemd to like that name and apparently he liked Vic's engines, since Vic built the 265s that were in the hydroplanes for Bill. Vic Jr has the WaWa Too in his museum now.

Geez, I didn't know I needed to spell out all the variances of the different names.
Like I said, Patterson had a series of "Cinder" boats, Ron Larson had a string of "Quick" and "Quickie" Raysons, Tony Maricich had more than a couple "Suddenly" variations, Rankin's "Child" boats, Rudy had a shit load of "Phffts" and Ritner had WaWa.
The Patterson flat was not a TOO although it was built years after the flat head and Chevy powered 266 hydros.

The 392 hemi in the flat was built by Vic and Meeks as well.

We installed and maintain the AC at the Edelbrock's shop, and I never heard anybody refer to it as a "museum" any more than Jay Leno's place

[Mitch]

Vics Garage ...

[Sharp shooter]

Don't think that could apply to customers boats. Not sure "So Rare" was a song and WaWa was a on going name with Bill Ritner.

If it is Patterson owned boats, Cinders, Hot Cinders and Super Cinders? Miss Bahia? Sparkler?

Yeah I don't know. Maybe it was just customer boats. This is Bill Brandenburgs Patterson back in 97 (I think). :)

29971


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9fFf0ClVLao

[SnoC653]

Geez, I didn't know I needed to spell out all the variances of the different names.
Like I said, Patterson had a series of "Cinder" boats, Ron Larson had a string of "Quick" and "Quickie" Raysons, Tony Maricich had more than a couple "Suddenly" variations, Rankin's "Child" boats, Rudy had a shit load of "Phffts" and Ritner had WaWa.
The Patterson flat was not a TOO although it was built years after the flat head and Chevy powered 266 hydros.

The 392 hemi in the flat was built by Vic and Meeks as well.

We installed and maintain the AC at the Edelbrock's shop, and I never heard anybody refer to it as a "museum" any more than Jay Leno's place

Hot Rod Magazine called it a Museum back in 2000. http://www.hotrod.com/thehistoryof/edelbrock_museum/
But who would listen to them. When I found the boat the documents I saw called it a museum as well. I still have the letter of authenticity from Bill Ritner stating that the boat which was later restored back to the WaWa too was that boat originally. Incidentally that is the same boat that is my Avitar over on the other site.

[gn7]

Its an industrial building tucked away in the middle of the same industrial park that Edelbock and Russel are located. No listing in the phone book, no sign outside on the building, nobody at the front door to take your money. You either know where it is, or your don't. Not open to the public. You either have business there, or you don't. He has an open house once a hear for charity. Other than that, its his personal garage/shop. No different that Leno's.
The Peterson is a museum. The Henry Ford is a museum.

[Mitch]

Hot Rod Magazine called it a Museum back in 2000. http://www.hotrod.com/thehistoryof/edelbrock_museum/
But who would listen to them. When I found the boat the documents I saw called it a museum as well. I still have the letter of authenticity from Bill Ritner stating that the boat which was later restored back to the WaWa too was that boat originally. Incidentally that is the same boat that is my Avitar over on the other site.

GN 7 is correct its in a remote location and its not called a museum the correct name is Vics Garage I have been to many functions their and I no Vic personally.I have travelled the country with him more than once . Vic originally wanted to build a museum and call it that for obvious reasons but the city said no deal . So it is what it is I didnt read this in a old book :)

[Brian]

GN 7 is correct its in a remote location and its not called a museum the correct name is Vics Garage I have been to many functions their and I no Vic personally.I have travelled the country with him more than once . Vic originally wanted to build a museum and call it that for obvious reasons but the city said no deal . So it is what it is I didnt read this in a old book :)

We have our NMCA West awards ceremony at Vic's Garage. It is a very cool place.

[2manymustangs]

Its an industrial building tucked away in the middle of the same industrial park that Edelbock and Russel are located. No listing in the phone book, no sign outside on the building, nobody at the front door to take your money. You either know where it is, or your don't. Not open to the public. You either have business there, or you don't. He has an open house once a hear for charity. Other than that, its his personal garage/shop. No different that Leno's.
The Peterson is a museum. The Henry Ford is a museum.

Petersons is a very cool place... I could have stayed there the entire day reading and gawking... The family wimped out... ;)

[gn7]

Petersons is a very cool place... I could have stayed there the entire day reading and gawking... The family wimped out... ;)

You owe yourself a trip to The Henry Ford.
I spent 2 full days in there and could done another, and Greenfield Village wasn't open. Throw in the River Rouge tour, and that's another day.

[2manymustangs]

You owe yourself a trip to The Henry Ford.
I spent 2 full days in there and could done another, and Greenfield Village wasn't open. Throw in the River Rouge tour, and that's another day.

:thumb: It's on my list...

[gn7]

You owe it yourself just to go see the ONLY successful SOHC car EVER built, and the ONLY SOHC powered car worthy of being in the Henry Ford. It sits right next to a GT 40 from the last Lemans victory, which surprisingly ISN'T powered by a SOHC. :omg::signhuh: :yikes::wtf: I guess they didn't bother to get your opinion on the BEST engine to use. Maybe WINNING was more important than the BLING factor.

http://i692.photobucket.com/albums/vv282/JOHN561320/DSCF6114.jpg

[2manymustangs]

You owe it yourself just to go see the ONLY successful SOHC car EVER built, and the ONLY SOHC powered car worthy of being in the Henry Ford. It sits right next to a GT 40 from the last Lemans victory, which surprisingly ISN'T powered by a SOHC. :omg::signhuh: :yikes::wtf: I guess they didn't bother to get your opinion on the BEST engine to use. Maybe WINNING was more important than the BLING factor.

http://i692.photobucket.com/albums/vv282/JOHN561320/DSCF6114.jpg

:t_lowblow:

[gn7]

Bruce, if your get some unwanted wood, rub it vigorously with some lotion and it will go away. Then seek help SICKO!

29978

29979

[2manymustangs]

Bruce, if your get some unwanted wood, rub it vigorously with some lotion and it will go away. Then seek help SICKO!

29978

29979

Believe me, I have saved every one of the pics that surfaces of that boat ^^^ as they would surface on the website AND from Ebay when it was up for sale... AND on Barret Jackson... {)

[Sharp shooter]

Start of the '76 Mike Gordon 100.

29984

[Wheeler]

Any pix of the Sicilian?

[gn7]

Heres a link to pics from the same race 2 years later.
Every one knows who Mike Gordon is RIGHT??
And RB who was another big sponsor of marathon races at Miami Stadium.

Everybody knows what kind of hull GN23 is RIGHT???

LINK: 1978 Mike Gordon 100 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/desperado8/6051037554/in/photostream/)

[Sharp shooter]

Heres a link to pics from the same race 2 years later.
Every one knows who Mike Gordon is RIGHT??
And RB who was another big sponsor of marathon races at Miami Stadium.

Everybody knows what kind of hull GN23 is RIGHT???

LINK: 1978 Mike Gordon 100 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/desperado8/6051037554/in/photostream/)

I put the 1980 Mike Gordon race on DVD for Duff many years ago. Have you seen it Bob?

[gn7]

I put the 1980 Mike Gordon race on DVD for Duff many years ago. Have you seen it Bob?

No, but if you can burn a copy I will buy it. I have a couple other things I want to get from you too. And I have a copy of "Its a Bikini World" I was going to give you. I don't have the means, but maybe you could edit the parts in it and post it on You Tube,

[RPB]

Heres a link to pics from the same race 2 years later.
Every one knows who Mike Gordon is RIGHT??
And RB who was another big sponsor of marathon races at Miami Stadium.

Everybody knows what kind of hull GN23 is RIGHT???

LINK: 1978 Mike Gordon 100 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/desperado8/6051037554/in/photostream/)

(with shame) No

[Sharp shooter]

No, but if you can burn a copy I will buy it. I have a couple other things I want to get from you too. And I have a copy of "Its a Bikini World" I was going to give you. I don't have the means, but maybe you could edit the parts in it and post it on You Tube,

I just threw one in the duplicator. PM or e-mail me an address. vdriveproductions@yahoo.com

[Sharp shooter]

http://www.v-drivevideo.net/pictures/albums/userpics/mandella.jpg

[Sharp shooter]

http://www.v-drivevideo.net/pictures/albums/2/old_stuff.jpg

[Sharp shooter]

1964

30511

[GotHalos]

http://www.v-drivevideo.net/pictures/albums/2/old_stuff.jpg

Ensenada International?

[gn7]

Ensenada International?

Long Beach(Belmont Shores pier) to Ensenada

[Sharp shooter]

'64
30524

[Wheeler]

Some random broad I found walking about the races. She asked if she could take my dog for a walk.:wink2:


30602

[WMC]

Some random broad I found walking about the races. She asked if she could take my dog for a walk.:wink2:


30602

Oldschool Hotness

Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk

[Wheeler]

Oldschool Hotness


I offered to buy her a cheese burger. :happy:

[WMC]

I offered to buy her a cheese burger. :happy:

You should of offered your wallet and car

Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk

[Wheeler]

You should of offered your wallet and car


In 1969 I had a Renault Dauphine and most likely hadn't received my first wallet much less a drivers license.

I did manage to get hold of my first gallon of Red Mountain though. :happy:
30629

[gn7]

In 1969 I had a Renault Dauphine and most likely hadn't received my first wallet much less a drivers license.

I did manage to get hold of my first gallon of Red Mountain though. :happy:
30629

Too much of a flash back!!
Dauphine. Water cooled 850CC rear engine and 3 lug nut wheels. ONLY THE FRENCH!!! No wonder they needed us to save their poor asses in WWII. I drove one once and lived. No sense pressing your luck.

Red Mountain. Nectar of the Gods. $2.00 a gallon and you got 25 cents when you returned the bottle:happy:
Those are some brain cells I will never get back.

[Wheeler]

30895308963089730898308993090030901309023090330904 30905309063090730908309093091130912309133091430915 3091630917......

[Sharp shooter]

Nice Wheeler! :thumbup:

[Wheeler]

Nice Wheeler! :thumbup:



It's the least I could do for such a great thread. :thumbup::thumbup:




31041310423104331044310453104631047310483104931050 31051310523105331054310553105631057310583105931060 3106131062

[Wheeler]

31063310643106531066310673106831069310703107131072 31073310743107531076310773107831079310803108131082 3108331084......

[Wheeler]

31086310993110231097310853109631094311033109531093 31104310893108831087311003110531101310913109231098 3109031106........

[WESTERNAERO]

That book store that Spike is parked in front of is a very cool place to waste some time in.

[MrDenton]

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/01/20/ebebe8u2.jpg
Our 14' Glaspar w/ a 55hp Evinrude
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/01/20/aravuhyh.jpg
Buena Vista mid 70's. Our Glaspar and our friends flatty. Sheriff ran him off the lake that afternoon. Said he was hot rodding it.


Blown Gas Flats to Rope...
In loving memory of
Chris "Church Mouse" Blevens

[2manymustangs]

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/01/20/ebebe8u2.jpg
Our 14' Glaspar w/ a 55hp Evinrude
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/01/20/aravuhyh.jpg
Buena Vista mid 70's. Our Glaspar and our friends flatty. Sheriff ran him off the lake that afternoon. Said he was hot rodding it.


Blown Gas Flats to Rope...
In loving memory of
Chris "Church Mouse" Blevens

Hey Mr. D... :) I came across an old pic of our boat we grew up learnng to ski with, I keep forgetting to scan them... Thanks for the post sir...

[Sharp shooter]

http://www.v-drivevideo.net/pictures/albums/b/jet_ads_028.jpg

[Wheeler]

A few more pix off the hard drive ....3136431365313663136731368313693137031371313723 13733137431375313763137731378313793138031381313823 13833138431385313863138731388313893139031391313923 13933139431395

[2manymustangs]

A few more pix off the hard drive ....31370
31390 <<<< Denver Mullins???
31378

TY Wheeler, can you name these folks, anyone that I/WE would or should know???


Very cool, thanks for sharing...

[Sharp shooter]

1958

31450

[Sharp shooter]

http://www.v-drivevideo.net/pictures/albums/2/KJ-440.jpg

http://www.v-drivevideo.net/pictures/albums/b/Hurry_round_hondo_again.jpg

http://www.v-drivevideo.net/pictures/albums/userpics/normal_Copy%2520of%2520scan0001.jpg

[AZKC]

Boat looks oddly familiar.....

http://www.hotboat.com/frm/attachment.php?attachmentid=31379&d=1390372624

[Sharp shooter]

https://scontent-b-sjc.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc3/t1/1235297_3523655346859_2139454972_n.jpg

[Havasuing]

If you have interest in reading more about Rick Lee's "Hurry Round Hondo" jet boat, there's a first-person account of what it was like by Rick at http://classiccustomboats.com/v-drive-slayer/

[Sharp shooter]

If you have interest in reading more about Rick Lee's "Hurry Round Hondo" jet boat, there's a first-person account of what it was like by Rick at http://classiccustomboats.com/v-drive-slayer/

That was great Bob!!! :thumbup:

[CampbellCarl]

Boat looks oddly familiar.....

http://www.hotboat.com/frm/attachment.php?attachmentid=31379&d=1390372624

Boat was owned by Slowride (Mike) for a number of years. Not alot of flatty jets around. FE powered too! I recall that this restore went back to old HB days and Mike detailed the uncovering of that original gelcoat. Guessing 7-8 years ago. Ford Econoline winking in the lower left corner and I think I remember that Dodge truck as well.

[westair]

http://www.v-drivevideo.net/pictures/albums/2/KJ-440.jpg

http://www.v-drivevideo.net/pictures/albums/b/Hurry_round_hondo_again.jpg

http://www.v-drivevideo.net/pictures/albums/userpics/normal_Copy%2520of%2520scan0001.jpg

Interesting .... I don't know crap about jet boats but didn't think they worked in a flatbottom to well, obviously this one did!

[Sharp shooter]

Interesting .... I don't know crap about jet boats but didn't think they worked in a flatbottom to well, obviously this one did!

That's not a flat bottom. It's a semi V.

[westair]

That's not a flat bottom. It's a semi V.

Ok thanks, I guess I was confused, thought K racing was flat bottom hulls only.

Ok I just read the whole story ..... it didn't look like a flat but figured it must have been.

[gn7]

Ok thanks, I guess I was confused, thought K racing was flat bottom hulls only.

Ok I just read the whole story ..... it didn't look like a flat but figured it must have been.

That's a common misconception. A 20 ft Rayson GN would legal as a K with smaller strakes, and have been run before.

[Sharp shooter]

That's a common misconception. A 20 ft Rayson GN would legal as a K with smaller strakes, and have been run before.

I've never seen it. Doesn't the rule book actually say the boats need to be flat bottoms Bob?

[gn7]

I've never seen it. Doesn't the rule book actually say the boats need to be flat bottoms Bob?

The word "flatbottom" is there, but its ambiguous. There are rules covering bottoms designs, and there are all flat by any means. Sanger ran runner bottoms for years which just called a flat keel boat in the rule book. But it can't be more than a 5/8 runner. In fact there are drawings showing how to measure strakes and the drawings are of V and gullwings.
The strakes are limited to 5/8 and the 20ft Rayson has 3/4 or larger.

The only classes that I know of where the bottom is clearly spelled out as flat and dimensions covering the whole boat, are cracker and Jersey Skiff,

All the others are about chines, keels and strakes.
32039

[WESTERNAERO]

I think this is what Bob is referring to. This is a part of the K-class rules.

51.4 Minimum hull length shall be 17 ft. L.O.A. and the Maximum hull length shall be 20 feet L.O.A. not including cavitation plates.
-OR-


51.4.1 When using the optional 21 foot rule, the following rule must be met:
51.4.1.1 Maximum length 21 feet excluding the cavitation plate. Minimum length 19 feet excluding the cavitation plate
51.4.1.2 Strake depth must not exceed one and one quarter inch from trailing edge to mid ship.
51.4.1.3 Bottom concavity must not exceed one and one quarter inch from trailing edge to mid ship.
51.4.1.4 Nothing must interfere with a straight edge from keel to chine in the area from trailing edge to 65 inches
forward.
51.4.1.5 Dead rise at the transom must not exceed 4 degrees.
51.4.1.6 All boats meeting this optional 21 foot rule must weigh a minimum of 2,400 pounds.


51.5 Hull must be a flatbottom boat design and conform to the GENERAL RULES FOR INBOARD RUNABOUTS, racing classification. <<<<<< What about this part right here?
51.6 Stabilizers, wing sections or airfoils may be installed, provided they are used in a horizontal position no wider than the beam of the
boat under the areas of stabilizer installation. They may not be adjusted while the boat is in motion nor will they be installed to the rear
(aft) of the transom. They shall not be positioned forward of amidships. The leading edges shall be no closer than 24 in. from the top of
the inside back of the driver’s seat. The leading edge center line shall not be mounted more than 10 in. above the blower(s), injector(s) or
top surfaces of other engine top mountings. They must pass a safety inspection before each race.

[gn7]

I think this is what Bob is referring to. This is a part of the K-class rules.

51.4 Minimum hull length shall be 17 ft. L.O.A. and the Maximum hull length shall be 20 feet L.O.A. not including cavitation plates.
-OR-


51.4.1 When using the optional 21 foot rule, the following rule must be met:
51.4.1.1 Maximum length 21 feet excluding the cavitation plate. Minimum length 19 feet excluding the cavitation plate
51.4.1.2 Strake depth must not exceed one and one quarter inch from trailing edge to mid ship.
51.4.1.3 Bottom concavity must not exceed one and one quarter inch from trailing edge to mid ship.
51.4.1.4 Nothing must interfere with a straight edge from keel to chine in the area from trailing edge to 65 inches
forward.
51.4.1.5 Dead rise at the transom must not exceed 4 degrees.
51.4.1.6 All boats meeting this optional 21 foot rule must weigh a minimum of 2,400 pounds.


51.5 Hull must be a flatbottom boat design and conform to the GENERAL RULES FOR INBOARD RUNABOUTS, racing classification. <<<<<< What about this part right here?
51.6 Stabilizers, wing sections or airfoils may be installed, provided they are used in a horizontal position no wider than the beam of the
boat under the areas of stabilizer installation. They may not be adjusted while the boat is in motion nor will they be installed to the rear
(aft) of the transom. They shall not be positioned forward of amidships. The leading edges shall be no closer than 24 in. from the top of
the inside back of the driver’s seat. The leading edge center line shall not be mounted more than 10 in. above the blower(s), injector(s) or
top surfaces of other engine top mountings. They must pass a safety inspection before each race.

Not exactly what I was referring to. That's the "NEW" 21 ft rule. Its is allowed to have much larger strakes ONLY on boats longer than 20, and a 4* or less bottom.
That's a whole "new" rule that was added that took effect this year. Its some times refered to in some circles as the Duff Daily rule.:biggrin:

If a Rayson GN was over 20 ft long, it could race regardless of the strakes, because only 4* or less flats that large are allowed to run.

I posted the bottom rules for the 20 ft and under in a edit in my in my previous post.


As for the part "flat bottom boat design." When it has to be a "flat bottom" it is spelled out very clearly, as in the 21 ft rule and cracker and Jersey Skiff,
Stop thinking FLAT, and think more "displacement" or "non hydro"

Perfect example of a boat that can't race K is a Rush. To long for the 20 ft and under, and the bottom is too V'd to run under the 21 ft rule, even though it is much flatter than a 20ft Rayson.

[WESTERNAERO]

So what hull falls into this "21 optional" rule?

[gn7]

So what hull falls into this "21 optional" rule?

Why the "Great Punkin" boat of course, What else. First you build a baot, then get a rule passed that allows it to run. But write the rule is such away that doesn't allow other "readily" available boats to run under the "new" rule. You literally have to create a new hull to run under the new rule.
http://www.performanceboats.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=177715&amp;d=1347519893

[WESTERNAERO]

Why the "Great Punkin" boat of course, What else. First you build a baot, then get a rule passed that allows it to run. But write the rule is such away that doesn't allow other "readily" available boats to run under the "new" rule. You literally have to create a new hull to run under the new rule.


Okay, how about a pic of the back of that thing out of the water? I've never seen it before. Is it a shallow v?

[gn7]

Okay, how about a pic of the back of that thing out of the water? I've never seen it before. Is it a shallow v?

Its basically flat. but it doesn't have to be, It can have up to a 4* dead rise. Which isn't shit.
BTW, virtually all the plate hardware y you see is Ti. The clevises on the bar are serrated, as are the eyes on the turn buckles. The "length" of the bar clevises are adjustable.

[WESTERNAERO]

Its basically flat. but it doesn't have to be, It can have up to a 4* dead rise. Which isn't shit.
BTW, virtually all the plate hardware y you see is Ti. The clevises on the bar are serrated, as are the eyes on the turn buckles. The "length" of the bar clevises are adjustable.

4 deg isn't much you're right. But let's say at 7' wide at the transom that gives you 3" vertical drop from chine to keel. Extend the little bit up the keel and you can have a lot better entry. Might be a big advantage on some waters.

[WESTERNAERO]

Its basically flat. but it doesn't have to be, It can have up to a 4* dead rise. Which isn't shit.
BTW, virtually all the plate hardware y you see is Ti. The clevises on the bar are serrated, as are the eyes on the turn buckles. The "length" of the bar clevises are adjustable.

Sounds interesting, have any close-ups of that hardware? Why Titanium?

[gn7]

Sounds interesting, have any close-ups of that hardware? Why Titanium?

I guess weight, and because they can. Why else does anybody use the shit?
No, I don't have any close ups of the hardware, but if you go to Puddingstone you can check it out, I believe it planned to be there. Its a pretty cool arrangement and is incredibly adjustable.
If it doesn't kick ass at Puddingstone, it can't kick ass anywhere. But I wouldn't place any of my hard earned money on it.
Its not a good boat for tight tracks like Long Beach or Parker. It needs a big course like Puddingstone, or Burley.

If Too Tall Charlie was going to be there with the k150, my money would be on him. If Steve Sequera can get the K24 thru the corners fast enough, he'll bury them. And then there is Robbie Devine to deal with as well, and he can't flat get it thru the turns there. It should prove interesting.

[WESTERNAERO]

I'll be at puddingstone. I'll try to remember to check it out.

[Sharp shooter]

I guess weight, and because they can. Why else does anybody use the shit?
No, I don't have any close ups of the hardware, but if you go to Puddingstone you can check it out, I believe it planned to be there. Its a pretty cool arrangement and is incredibly adjustable.
If it doesn't kick ass at Puddingstone, it can't kick ass anywhere. But I wouldn't place any of my hard earned money on it.
Its not a good boat for tight tracks like Long Beach or Parker. It needs a big course like Puddingstone, or Burley.

If Too Tall Charlie was going to be there with the k150, my money would be on him. If Steve Sequera can get the K24 thru the corners fast enough, he'll bury them. And then there is Robbie Devine to deal with as well, and he can't flat get it thru the turns there. It should prove interesting.

I heard Buckles parked the K boat, but hopefully it's not true...

[gn7]

I heard Buckles parked the K boat, but hopefully it's not true...

I asked Robbie about it at Parker, and he said they were being selective about the races they brought it too. I can see it going to Burley and Long Beach. Other than that its anybody's guess. He said they don't need to bring it to every event to win the championship. I think its as much a matter of it showing up when they need it to, to fill the class. But I could wrong. We'll see.

[HB Vic]

Why the "Great Punkin" boat of course, What else. First you build a baot, then get a rule passed that allows it to run. But write the rule is such away that doesn't allow other "readily" available boats to run under the "new" rule. You literally have to create a new hull to run under the new rule.
http://www.performanceboats.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=177715&amp;d=1347519893


Who's the big guy holding the boat? Chris?

[gn7]

Who's the big guy holding the boat? Chris?
Some guy from an island that calls itself a continent because it sounds bigger and more important. He use to talk pretty funny, but its goes away. Until he goes back for a visit, then you can't under him for another 6 months to a year. Nice enough guy, but his breath smells of some shit called Vegemite most of the time.

[HotWater]

I guess weight, and because they can. Why else does anybody use the shit?
No, I don't have any close ups of the hardware, but if you go to Puddingstone you can check it out, I believe it planned to be there. Its a pretty cool arrangement and is incredibly adjustable.
If it doesn't kick ass at Puddingstone, it can't kick ass anywhere. But I wouldn't place any of my hard earned money on it.
Its not a good boat for tight tracks like Long Beach or Parker. It needs a big course like Puddingstone, or Burley.

If Too Tall Charlie was going to be there with the k150, my money would be on him. If Steve Sequera can get the K24 thru the corners fast enough, he'll bury them. And then there is Robbie Devine to deal with as well, and he can't flat get it thru the turns there. It should prove interesting.

If the motor stays together in the big orange machine it will be way out front.

[HB Vic]

Some guy from an island that calls itself a continent. He use to talk pretty funny, but its goes away. Until he goes back for a visit, then you can't under him for another 6 months to a year. Nice enough guy, but his breath smells of some shit called Vegemite most of the time.

Thought that was him. He's gigantic LOL

[gn7]

Thought that was him. He's gigantic LOL

Its the Vegemite.

[HB Vic]

Its the Vegemite.

Either that or the vodka :D

[gn7]

If the motor stays together in the big orange machine it will be way out front.

If YOU were out there and I installed your return spring backwards, you'd be way out in front:biggrin:

There are lot of "IFs" in this race. This is race that can be won or lost in the turns, but for totally different reasons that Long Beach or Parker.
I would never discount the Ty in the Blown Bros boat, or Tony in the K69 either.

Its could get interesting.


I'm sitting here debating whether we should show up and reduce the IFs in the GN class a little:yikes:

[HotWater]

If YOU were out there and I installed your return spring backwards, you'd be way out in front:biggrin:

There are lot of "IFs" in this race. This is race that can be won or lost in the turns, but for totally different reasons that Long Beach or Parker.
I would never discount the Ty in the Blown Bros boat, or Tony in the K69 either.

Its could get interesting.


I'm sitting here debating whether we should show up and reduce the IFs in the GN class a little:yikes:
LOL yeah I wish!

I'm picking Ty in the 66 for second and Steve will be right there close to him. I heard the 69 has a new driver.

You should definetely show up with your boat and kick some ass!

[gn7]

LOL yeah I wish!

I'm picking Ty in the 66 for second and Steve will be right there close to him. I heard the 69 has a new driver.

You should definetely show up with your boat and kick some ass!

You could be right about the 69 boat.
Ty and Devine in Buckles boat both are fast, if the Bucks Up team brings the K boat. Hard to say, but like Jerry said, that thing could be parked. When I talked with Robbie about it, it was on Friday morning. Lot went down after that!!!

Yeah, I think we might have to drag in out of the moth balls. Not sure if the old guy has plans to drive it at Puddingstone, but he has been seen taking some high speed passes with in at the river, He could use an attitude adjustment.:yes:

[Sharp shooter]

Some guy from an island that calls itself a continent because it sounds bigger and more important. He use to talk pretty funny, but its goes away. Until he goes back for a visit, then you can't under him for another 6 months to a year. Nice enough guy, but his breath smells of some shit called Vegemite most of the time.

This guy? :D


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3FJrAMBloo0

[gn7]

This guy? :D


Yeah, that's the guy!!:biggrin:
That's some funny shit, You caught some great stuff thru the years.:thumb:

[GotHalos]

Bump :jumping-smiley-019:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B-BjL5KLXMQ

[Sharp shooter]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SqE5JtHUKKE

[Stainless]

Bump :jumping-smiley-019:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B-BjL5KLXMQ

I'm gonna have to check this out when I get to a PC. :)


CH3NO2

[Stainless]

Bump :jumping-smiley-019:



Cool, I saw a couple scenes from Havasu. :)


Bench race driver of the NHRA 16X Castrol GTX Mustang

[2manymustangs]

Isnt this our friend COOKIE/Kazanski's (AKA Mz. Anti-Seize) grandfathers boat?

35557

35558

[gn7]

Not a OB fan, but this is kind of sad when you think about it.

35559
35560
35561
35562
35562
35563

[Stainless]

Wow, is that a graveyard? I should know, but are those Molinari's?


CH3NO2

[gn7]

They are all in different places. Mostly in the Midwest.
One, don't in those pictures, is being restored. But it is the only one I know of, and it was in no better shape when they started.

[GotHalos]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nloF0eF-zFs

Watched a similar documentary on the History Channel a couple nights ago. :thumbup:

[Sharp shooter]

35594

....

[GotHalos]

https://scontent-a-sjc.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/t31.0-8/1974382_707839349269014_617992825_o.jpg

[GotHalos]

https://scontent-a-sjc.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc3/t31.0-8/1294264_706913186028297_308278497_o.jpg

[GotHalos]

https://scontent-b-sjc.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/l/t31.0-8/1400447_660137870685355_1874074799_o.jpg

Not that old, but still cool.

[Stainless]

https://scontent-a-sjc.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/t31.0-8/1974382_707839349269014_617992825_o.jpg


https://scontent-a-sjc.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc3/t31.0-8/1294264_706913186028297_308278497_o.jpg

Coolio! :)


CH3NO2

[HotWater]

https://scontent-b-sjc.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/l/t31.0-8/1400447_660137870685355_1874074799_o.jpg

Not that old, but still cool.

What the heck is that?

[westair]

What the heck is that?

I'm glad you asked that, I figured we're all supposed to know:biggrin:

[gn7]

I'm glad you asked that, I figured we're all supposed to know:biggrin:

Ridged inflatable boat. RIB. Big in England and Australia. My guess is that it's Australia. English aren't big on Mexican food, the Aussies love the stuff.

I don't think you can get away with a wing extending outside the hull in offshore here.

[SnoC653]

Ridged inflatable boat. RIB. Big in England and Australia. My guess is that it's Australia. English aren't big on Mexican food, the Aussies love the stuff.

I don't think you can get away with a wing extending outside the hull in offshore here.

Well apparently you could in 1995. That is the Buzzi Buzzard that won the world B class (Sportsmans B) in 1995 at the Key West Super Boat World Championships. The driver was from England and the throttle man was from Houston.

[gn7]

Well apparently you could in 1995. That is the Buzzi Buzzard that won the world B class (Sportsmans B) in 1995 at the Key West Super Boat World Championships. The driver was from England and the throttle man was from Houston.

Maybe so. That probably wasn't a APBA offshore series. Even if it was, they don't allow that shit today. Drag boat and offshore org's might.

[JusTrouble]

Just went thru this thread since it came up to the top recently. Great pics and info. Thanks to all.
Back at Post 746 Wheeler put up a pic of an old school v-drive for a twin screws in a 55 Mandella. I recognized it from a photo I just recently saw from Harlan Orrin who has a 55 Mandella that he said was built with a twin prop/twin rudder setup. Pretty interesting deal

[JusTrouble]

Dad had this photo and told me that it was Uncle John's (Mom's oldest brother) first SKI boat! Check out the skiis in the boat. Not a typical ski boat for sure. Uncle John was a bit wild for Dad's taste. Dad went on one ride with him in this boat and said never again. It scared the hell out of him. All Uncle John cared about was skiing and he obviously didnt care what he had to use to do it. He never went without a boat. He later owned several Chris Crafts that I got to ski behind at Coyote Lake, Shasta Lake and in the Delta.
37025 370283702937030

He ended up with these two boats and continued skiing until he passed 10 years ago. He bought the 1986 (I think) Z29 Donzi new and had it brought to the Delta where it still lives in my cousins care. He had a hard time convincing me and others that this was a ski boat because the wake would knock you unconscious if you caught it at speed with a normal, short rope. He later added the Ski Nautique in the background as his daily skier and used the Donzi as his "Dinner Boat"
37026 37031

I believe this was the shortest twin engine (454) that Donzi made then and it was discontinued shortly after. Still looks and runs like new.37027
My cousin named the boat in Honor of his Dad
37032

[GotHalos]

Very cool. :thumbup:

[SBS933]

Awesome story.

[Sharp shooter]

http://www.quincylooperracing.us/images/cotterbuickteamearly50s.jpg

[Sharp shooter]

http://www.quincylooperracing.us/images/apbahistory.jpg

[RyanPartridge]

Just got this from a buddy of mine. Original water transfer decal....

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/04/09/4azaduva.jpg

[Sharp shooter]

Just got this from a buddy of mine. Original water transfer decal....

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/04/09/4azaduva.jpg

That's really cool Ryan!

[Sharp shooter]

http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb39/Roadroamer1/cinderssale_zpsf6cc1cf8.jpg (http://s208.photobucket.com/user/Roadroamer1/media/cinderssale_zpsf6cc1cf8.jpg.html)

[Sharp shooter]

http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb39/Roadroamer1/charger3_zps09c31129.jpg (http://s208.photobucket.com/user/Roadroamer1/media/charger3_zps09c31129.jpg.html)

http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb39/Roadroamer1/charger2_zpsc6a6f487.jpg (http://s208.photobucket.com/user/Roadroamer1/media/charger2_zpsc6a6f487.jpg.html)

http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb39/Roadroamer1/charger1_zpsa9c682bc.jpg (http://s208.photobucket.com/user/Roadroamer1/media/charger1_zpsa9c682bc.jpg.html)

[HB Vic]

Amazing that you have these brochures still around and they look pristine. Very nice!

[Sharp shooter]

http://www.v-drivevideo.net/pictures/albums/2/G2_010.jpg

http://www.v-drivevideo.net/pictures/albums/2/G2~0.jpg

http://www.v-drivevideo.net/pictures/albums/userpics/HYDROENDURO.jpg

http://www.v-drivevideo.net/pictures/albums/userpics/RAWH.jpg

[Sharp shooter]

396683966939670

[Havasuing]

The #96 is a center-steer, long-deck Mandella of Jake and Jerry Gilbreath, almost a twin to the #99 "Rawhide" of Lou Brummett. Wonder what ever happened to that boat?

[Sharp shooter]

The #96 is a center-steer, long-deck Mandella of Jake and Jerry Gilbreath, almost a twin to the #99 "Rawhide" of Lou Brummett. Wonder what ever happened to that boat?

That's a good question.

[Sharp shooter]

1975

https://scontent-b-lax.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/t1.0-9/10006522_215737745301079_737277702_n.jpg

[Sharp shooter]

https://scontent-a-lax.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc3/t1.0-9/1609713_783288168355733_4955975440737371785_n.jpg

[Sharp shooter]

https://scontent-a-lax.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/t1.0-9/10247492_783249168359633_8072528659132491863_n.jpg

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn2/t1.0-9/10173746_782595865091630_8940033742354527796_n.jpg

[Sharp shooter]

https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn2/t31.0-8/10012878_780403371977546_1275213142034787524_o.jpg

[Sharp shooter]

https://scontent-b-lax.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc3/t1.0-9/10150613_10203086395216702_1469017594_n.jpg

[GotHalos]

https://scontent-a-lax.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/t1.0-9/10247492_783249168359633_8072528659132491863_n.jpg

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn2/t1.0-9/10173746_782595865091630_8940033742354527796_n.jpg

Rad:thumbup:

[RyanPartridge]

The #96 is a center-steer, long-deck Mandella of Jake and Jerry Gilbreath, almost a twin to the #99 "Rawhide" of Lou Brummett. Wonder what ever happened to that boat?


That's a good question.


I believe it was called "Gil-T".

[Havasuing]

Hi Ryan -- I think you're right, Jake Gilbreath still called his #96 Mandella "Gil-T" -- the first "Gil-T" was also a Mandella (back in the mid-1960s when Jake was still a Fire Captain in El Monte and running his custom gas tank business out of his garage at home) but it was all-white with orange accent trim and was originally #26 (and just standard ski-boat cockpit configuration -- not a long deck center steer). Also like the shot of Bill Muncey in the Miss Atlas Van Lines unlimited. Bill was a very good friend and a great teammate (we drove together for Team Evinrude and Glastron Carlson in many endurance races back in the late 1970s). Someday I need to tell the story about going to lunch with Bill and finding out what it was really like to be a professional boat racer. It wasn't nearly as glamorous as most people think.

[Sharp shooter]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aYrafKbTqV4

[tpltrbl303]

1964

30511

That was my father in laws company, I have about 20 of those skis in my garage. I have actually met several of the people who's name is on those skis


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[iBoat]

what happened to all the big players dumping money into experimental boats those were the days

[2manymustangs]

1975

https://scontent-b-lax.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/t1.0-9/10006522_215737745301079_737277702_n.jpg

:thumbsUp: sighhhhhhhh........

[doubleeagle]

Now thats what I call a cleat

[Sharp shooter]

https://scontent-a-lax.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfa1/t1.0-9/1924819_10203403404552691_1261498687_n.jpg

https://scontent-b-lax.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpf1/t31.0-8/1909264_10203248470508483_7993580555244191752_o.jp g

https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xap1/t1.0-9/1911608_780411775310039_7083705959772426119_n.jpg

https://scontent-a-lax.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpa1/t31.0-8/1781205_822924784402472_6643786334961929596_o.jpg

[Sharp shooter]

Gar Wood 1927
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xfa1/t1.0-9/10151147_671450026236542_7144207501129543208_n.jpg

[Sharp shooter]

1955 V12 Liberty
https://scontent-a-lax.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xaf1/t1.0-9/1888502_1467037973513069_1312350082_n.jpg

[Sharp shooter]

http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb39/Roadroamer1/suchcrust_zps93078f8f.jpg (http://s208.photobucket.com/user/Roadroamer1/media/suchcrust_zps93078f8f.jpg.html)

[Sharp shooter]

http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb39/Roadroamer1/g60_zpsbf679513.jpg (http://s208.photobucket.com/user/Roadroamer1/media/g60_zpsbf679513.jpg.html)

[Sharp shooter]

https://scontent-b-lax.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpf1/t1.0-9/10149831_10203051088374053_1456642476_n.jpg

[spike morelli]

You'd be surprised Jerry. Bill's dad use to tow the 68 Rayson with 23 T roadster. He towed it from LA to the river more than once, Bill still has the car and the boat. The car had a 427 Ford MR and 4 speed with a M/T cross ram. I'll see if I can dig up a pic of it with the boat behind it.

If you can tow a Stevens with a T bird on slicks, your sure as hell can tow a Rayson with a T roadster:shhh:

Isn't the outboard boat pictured, a Regatta Hull? ( Post 435 ) A friend had one in the sixties/early seventies.

[Havasuing]

I think you are correct Spike...I believe the outboard in post #435 is a Regatta -- if not, it's an Inferno which was a close 'cousin' to the Regatta.

[mouzer]

yes it is I CONCUR

[Sharp shooter]

https://scontent-a-lax.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpf1/t1.0-9/1538690_10202374170267314_1491877961_n.jpg

http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb39/Roadroamer1/judge_zps12a0825a.jpg (http://s208.photobucket.com/user/Roadroamer1/media/judge_zps12a0825a.jpg.html)

[Mrs.K034]

https://scontent-a-lax.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpf1/t1.0-9/1538690_10202374170267314_1491877961_n.jpg

http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb39/Roadroamer1/judge_zps12a0825a.jpg (http://s208.photobucket.com/user/Roadroamer1/media/judge_zps12a0825a.jpg.html)

I love this thread!! Where do I get one of those crowns?

[Sharp shooter]

1968
http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb39/Roadroamer1/pbad68_zps122834cb.jpg (http://s208.photobucket.com/user/Roadroamer1/media/pbad68_zps122834cb.jpg.html)

[doubleeagle]

[QUOTE=spike morelli;114983]Isn't the outboard boat pictured, a Regatta Hull? ( Post 435 ) A friend had one in the sixties/early seventies.[/QUOTE

It is a Regatta with out a doubt. In fact I would bet it was bought from West Anaheim Marine. I can remember rigging at least 3 twin engine Regatta's 157 with 2 1250 for a guy name Jack Erwin called it Black Jack used it for Drag Racing it had a wood deck. Ed Lane from Dick Sheerer Marine ended up with it I remember seeing it in his garage. Then there were 2 of the bigger boats think they were called 174 or 176 both with 1350's. They were definiately a hand full It might not be what you want but they were all you wanted.

[Sharp shooter]

[QUOTE=spike morelli;114983]Isn't the outboard boat pictured, a Regatta Hull? ( Post 435 ) A friend had one in the sixties/early seventies.[/QUOTE

It is a Regatta with out a doubt. In fact I would bet it was bought from West Anaheim Marine. I can remember rigging at least 3 twin engine Regatta's 157 with 2 1250 for a guy name Jack Erwin called it Black Jack used it for Drag Racing it had a wood deck. Ed Lane from Dick Sheerer Marine ended up with it I remember seeing it in his garage. Then there were 2 of the bigger boats think they were called 174 or 176 both with 1350's. They were definiately a hand full It might be what you want but they were all you wanted.

I don't know what it is, but I can tell you the bottom looks just like the forward bottom of a Rayson GN and the first one of those I've seen in picture was 68. So who copied who....?

[Nordic Bear]

I grew up a HUGE thunder boat fan... I lived 100 miles north of Seattle, but I swear I could hear the big V12 Merlin's roaring on Lake Washington during Seafair. Even listening to the broadcast on the radio was exciting!!!... then,,, THIS happened, I remember watching this piece of crap on tv... the Miss Circus Circus canard boat... I'm so glad this was short lived!!!!42267

[doubleeagle]

[QUOTE=doubleeagle;118382]

I don't know what it is, but I can tell you the bottom looks just like the forward bottom of a Rayson GN and the first one of those I've seen in picture was 68. So who copied who....?

I'll have to go back through my arcives but I think Wilkerson built these starting about 1966 or so. Even his earlier boats had that type of nose They were I believe inspired from Allen's and Kennedy's from the 50's. The Regatta was a very shallow V with a couple flat strakes and a very needle type nose and those very reversed flared sides
I have to say after looking at the Rayson Craft on the page before (post 435) the foward bottoms do look a lot alike. The chine line would be drasticly different because of the almost arrow head shape from the transom to nose.

[Sharp shooter]

[QUOTE=Sharp shooter;118400]

I'll have to go back through my arcives but I think Wilkerson built these starting about 1966 or so. Even his earlier boats had that type of nose They were I believe inspired from Allen's and Kennedy's from the 50's. The Regatta was a very shallow V with a couple flat strakes and a very needle type nose and those very reversed flared sides
I have to say after looking at the Rayson Craft on the page before (post 435) the foward bottoms do look a lot alike. The chine line would be drasticly different because of the almost arrow head shape from the transom to nose.

I have some regatta ads from 66 that definitely share similarities in the forward bottom area but these boats look smaller and lower freeboard to Rudy's GN. They advertise a reverse strake bottom. Maybe Rudy got his inspiration from these Regatta hulls...?

[gn7]

[QUOTE=doubleeagle;118382]

I don't know what it is, but I can tell you the bottom looks just like the forward bottom of a Rayson GN and the first one of those I've seen in picture was 68. So who copied who....?

I don't see the resemblence

[doubleeagle]

Boy the quotes sure got messed up shows me posting Sharp Shooters post and vice verse. After looking at the Rayson Craft again, I think its just seeing shallow flatter type strake on a shallow entry type nose other than that I don't see much resemblance either. With that said at first glance they do look similar. My Dad had experimented with Shallow type strakes on the later ArrowCraft Boats they built and raced back in the late 50's. They had a 13'6" with twin 78 mercs it had a problem grabbing a chine when coming off the throttles the strakes helped out big time.

[Sharp shooter]

[QUOTE=Sharp shooter;118400]

I don't see the resemblence

I do but only front bottom area. Far from a perfect match... Maybe there's a different regatta hull to compare...?


http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb39/Roadroamer1/regatta67_zps0abb1195.jpg (http://s208.photobucket.com/user/Roadroamer1/media/regatta67_zps0abb1195.jpg.html)

http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb39/Roadroamer1/firstraysongn_zps73592763.jpg (http://s208.photobucket.com/user/Roadroamer1/media/firstraysongn_zps73592763.jpg.html)

[Sharp shooter]

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xfa1/t31.0-8/r270/10463763_917399978275239_508958946120203382_o.jpg

[Sharp shooter]

43394

http://www.v-drivevideo.net/pictures/albums/userpics/125.jpg

[westair]

43394


That's a great shot ..... what enduro?

[Sharp shooter]

That's a great shot ..... what enduro?

Good question. Maybe 76?

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpa1/t1.0-9/10401336_10203108748571995_4829507159305880405_n.j pg

[Sharp shooter]

https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpf1/v/t1.0-9/10557234_10203108748091983_6754123180326168024_n.j pg?oh=ce8b01823a3d305162cc03fcb4beabdd&oe=54685610&__gda__=1416645999_599b7b390d0e1dad5f168f84d72895b 5

[Sharp shooter]

http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb39/Roadroamer1/EV74_zpsd6843d90.jpg (http://s208.photobucket.com/user/Roadroamer1/media/EV74_zpsd6843d90.jpg.html)

[Sharp shooter]

http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb39/Roadroamer1/GLIDESLIDE74_zpsdca583cf.jpg (http://s208.photobucket.com/user/Roadroamer1/media/GLIDESLIDE74_zpsdca583cf.jpg.html)

[Sharp shooter]

http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb39/Roadroamer1/HONDOHYDROJET74_zps86d1dc28.jpg (http://s208.photobucket.com/user/Roadroamer1/media/HONDOHYDROJET74_zps86d1dc28.jpg.html)

[Sharp shooter]

1974

http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb39/Roadroamer1/MAHA74_zps756becbe.jpg (http://s208.photobucket.com/user/Roadroamer1/media/MAHA74_zps756becbe.jpg.html)

[Sharp shooter]

http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb39/Roadroamer1/SKULLHELMET_zps6b4a7755.jpg (http://s208.photobucket.com/user/Roadroamer1/media/SKULLHELMET_zps6b4a7755.jpg.html)

[Sharp shooter]

1976...

45185

[spike morelli]

45195 Taperflex skis

[Sharp shooter]

45195 Taperflex skis

We had 2 of those back in the day Spike. Moms favorite ski. :)

[spike morelli]

45197 Taperflex vests, to go with the skis...I still have all of my family's old skis and vests, my mom and sister used the Ladies "form-fitting' style. My "ex" said they were sexist, and refused to wear one on that basis......yeah...that's another reason she's my "ex"...

[spike morelli]

45198 Edelbrock flame arrestors 'n stuff

[Sharp shooter]

45197 Taperflex vests, to go with the skis...I still have all of my family's old skis and vests, my mom and sister used the Ladies "form-fitting' style. My "ex" said they were sexist, and refused to wear one on that basis......yeah...that's another reason she's my "ex"...

Lol!!!

Spike, my dad learned with 60's equipment and fought anything new that came after that. It was tough getting him away from the styro foam belts and into the jacket style like you posted above. He finally switched in the 80's. We had dual handle 75 foot ski ropes and Dads favorite ski was a wood v-bottom ski that he made himself. One lesson I learned from Dad before his passing was that newer doesn't always equate to better and I'm not just talking about the boating world. I'm sure I'm preaching to the choir right Spike? :D

[spike morelli]

Lol!!!

Spike, One lesson I learned from Dad before his passing was that newer doesn't always equate to better and I'm not just talking about the boating world. I'm sure I'm preaching to the choir right Spike? :D

Busted! Yeah, I pretty much feel that way about some things. I like people to know, however, that I don't live in the past, I just have a deep appreciation for some things that were right the first time, and shouldn't have been changed.

[Sharp shooter]

Busted! Yeah, I pretty much feel that way about some things. I like people to know, however, that I don't live in the past, I just have a deep appreciation for some things that were right the first time, and shouldn't have been changed.

Amen brother!!!! :cool

[doubleeagle]

45197 Taperflex vests, to go with the skis...I still have all of my family's old skis and vests, my mom and sister used the Ladies "form-fitting' style. My "ex" said they were sexist, and refused to wear one on that basis......yeah...that's another reason she's my "ex"...

We went to Bass Lake every year with our family and my uncle and his kids. My Dad had bought a number of new vest for us and picked up one of the ladies for my sister, who was about 14 or so, and just starting to get some shape to her. She thought it was the greatest thing since "toliet paper". Hell you couldn't get her to take it off. The boys in the other camp seem to think it look pretty good also at least until she took it off. Boy talk about a bunch of disappointed faces.

[Riverbuzzrat]

Some great pics


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[Sharp shooter]

45258

-------

[Stainless]

45258

-------

That's a car theme boat, therefore it should have a car engine, not an OB. Poor OB, then pink on top of that. :p


CH3NO2

[gn7]

45258

-------

I've seen that very same boat with the proud owner standing behind it. :happy:

[Stainless]

I've seen that very same boat with the proud owner standing behind it. :happy:

Who Barbie?
Bob, your new avatar is perfect for you! :D
Where you been lately? Are you putting anything together for upcoming races?


CH3NO2

[sangermike]

brings back memories i learned to ski behind a crackerbox with a t-bird motor on the 4th of july at hensen dam in ca those were the good days

[2manymustangs]

Who Barbie?
Bob, your new avatar is perfect for you! :D
Where you been lately? Are you putting anything together for upcoming races?


CH3NO2

^^^ That is the MAXI craft... :)

45261

[Stainless]

^^^ That is the MAXI craft... :)

45261

Lol, I remember Maxi, there were some epic exchanges between him and the OB church boys. :D


CH3NO2

[gn7]

Lol, I remember Maxi, there were some epic exchanges between him and the OB church boys. :D


CH3NO2

Have you ever seen a prouder owner.

[Sharp shooter]

Jack Smith Park Bridge

51675

[MrDenton]

Any idea what year that was taken SS?


Oath Keeper

[Sharp shooter]

Any idea what year that was taken SS?


Oath Keeper

I don't know.

[2manymustangs]

Jack Smith Park Bridge

51675

Interesting pic sir, ty... :)

[MrDenton]

This was taken in the early 70's at I believe Buena Vista. See who's got the knowledge here. What are the 2 boats pictured? The little outboard was ours. We all learned to ski behind that beast. The other was a family friend, don't remember the make or engine. Just remember the sheriff giving him a bunch of crap for hot rodding it around. http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/02/16/e8e5281322d11f0bfdd59249d70670cf.jpg


Oath Keeper

[Luvnlife]

This was taken in the early 70's at I believe Buena Vista. See who's got the knowledge here. What are the 2 boats pictured? The little outboard was ours. We all learned to ski behind that beast. The other was a family friend, don't remember the make or engine. Just remember the sheriff giving him a bunch of crap for hot rodding it around. http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/02/16/e8e5281322d11f0bfdd59249d70670cf.jpg


Oath Keeper

Wow back when Buena Vista had tons of beaches, then the roll bar boats started showing up.[emoji107]

[Sharp shooter]

This was taken in the early 70's at I believe Buena Vista. See who's got the knowledge here. What are the 2 boats pictured? The little outboard was ours. We all learned to ski behind that beast. The other was a family friend, don't remember the make or engine. Just remember the sheriff giving him a bunch of crap for hot rodding it around. http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/02/16/e8e5281322d11f0bfdd59249d70670cf.jpg

Oath Keeper

I love pics like this!! The v-drive looks early 60's or older just going by the high freeboard. :thumb:

[MrDenton]

The outboard is a 14' Glaspar with a 55hp Evinrude. We owned it from '73-'84.


Oath Keeper

[Sharp shooter]

I love this type of pic. :thumbsUp:

http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb39/Roadroamer1/Boats/70s_zps0jhr8jf1.jpg (http://s208.photobucket.com/user/Roadroamer1/media/Boats/70s_zps0jhr8jf1.jpg.html)

[doubleeagle]

Had one just like her back in the day. Them Red ones are a lot of fun but a little on the pricey side.:boobeyes::boobeyes:

[2manymustangs]

I remember when the Hydrodyne competition ski boats ruled Lake St Louis... I found this pic while looking around for Hydrodyne inboard pics...

54917

[spike morelli]

I love this type of pic. :thumbsUp:

http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb39/Roadroamer1/Boats/70s_zps0jhr8jf1.jpg (http://s208.photobucket.com/user/Roadroamer1/media/Boats/70s_zps0jhr8jf1.jpg.html)

I believe this boat is in one of the old Hot Rod Magazine Show World books I have in the garage. Boat and girl are good looking, but could they find a muddier pond to shoot in?

[riverrunner1984]

Saw this on FB this morning.....
54983

[HB Vic]

Looks like Long Beach


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[Sharp shooter]

Looks like Long Beach



That's what it looked like back around 1975. :thumbsUp:

[2manymustangs]

Saw this on FB this morning.....
54983

Holly CRAAAAAP that looks like a LOT O FUN!!!!!!!!!!!!! :)

WHY wasn't I in LB at that time!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Funny thing my wife and inlaws were there, just 1/2 mile away on 3rd street, just up the hill from the school in the background... And apparently knew NOTHING OR didn't give a crap about the goings on in Marine Stadium EVEN with my father in laws penchant for boating/racing...


SHarpShooter, does this say REX MARINE??? How long have they been around??? DId Mike start Rex Marine or???

54984

[Sharp shooter]

Jack Rex started Rex Marine back probably like 79...? Obnoxious knows the story he was there.

http://www.narberthpa.com/Bale/bmp/dbc/usconquest1976950.jpg

[2manymustangs]

Jack Rex started Rex Marine back probably like 79...? Obnoxious knows the story he was there.

http://www.narberthpa.com/Bale/bmp/dbc/usconquest1976950.jpg

The 79 date kind of dates the picture in that case IF that is a old RexMarine logo on that boat.

IF you see the first/closest sanger in that OP pic, that is how I recall my hydro looking (but with a yellow gel base and all kinds of colors) when my late friend Sam first owned it and when Jerry second owned it...

My third close friend had someone "touch it up" (just before I bought it) and now all that original Sanger paint detail is gone... :(

Who knows, maybe Billy/Harlin painted mine... ;)

It looked like antique crackle paint, I thought it was bitchen the way it had aged...

[Sharp shooter]

The 79 date kind of dates the picture in that case IF that is a old RexMarine logo on that boat....

Yeah maybe, the photographer of the front facing pic I posted was said to be '76. Looking at the paint I would say the 76 pic is earlier than the starting rope pic. :cool

[2manymustangs]

Yeah maybe, the photographer of the front facing pic I posted was said to be '76. Looking at the paint I would say the 76 pic is earlier than the starting rope pic. :cool

Very cool stuff... Jerry, please fire up the WAY BACK machine and take us back to those days for a DO over...

I wanna live that scene in LB/SoCal with the sprints/drags/ocean runners... I feel cheated for not being there...

ALso the asphalt drags in SoCal, the hollywood hemi days of CT strokers and all the drag racing going on... I wanna DO OVER...

[Sharp shooter]

1959
http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb39/Roadroamer1/Old%20Boat%20literature%20and%20ads/Merc1959_zpswterqcoh.jpg (http://s208.photobucket.com/user/Roadroamer1/media/Old%20Boat%20literature%20and%20ads/Merc1959_zpswterqcoh.jpg.html)

[shueman]

LA Boat Show 1958 60996

[shueman]

Early Jet Boat ...

60997

[2manymustangs]

LA Boat Show 1958 60996

When boats were smaller, hairdoo-s were bigger and boobs were au natural... :thumbsUp:

[riverrunner1984]

Early Jet Boat ...

60997

Looks like part of an outdrive attached to a jet.....

[Sharp shooter]

LA Boat Show 1958 60996

Nice shueman! :party-smiley-020:

[Sharp shooter]

1953 K racing runabout

http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb39/Roadroamer1/Old%20Boat%20literature%20and%20ads/Beaver2K%20boat%201953_zps5i8sha3i.jpg (http://s208.photobucket.com/user/Roadroamer1/media/Old%20Boat%20literature%20and%20ads/Beaver2K%20boat%201953_zps5i8sha3i.jpg.html)

http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb39/Roadroamer1/Old%20Boat%20literature%20and%20ads/Speedandspray1952_zpsw6vpm4bj.jpg (http://s208.photobucket.com/user/Roadroamer1/media/Old%20Boat%20literature%20and%20ads/Speedandspray1952_zpsw6vpm4bj.jpg.html)

[2manymustangs]

WHo can date these for me? I made a stop at the Long Beach Antique Mall on PCH today, my usual hang out...

I think that I scored...???

Does the 200MPH Miss Budwiser give a clue about the age of these? OR the CAB OVER design of the boat images?

61415

61416

61417

[Sharp shooter]

WHo can date these for me? I made a stop at the Long Beach Antique Mall on PCH today, my usual hang out...

I think that I scored...???

Does the 200MPH Miss Budwiser give a clue about the age of these? OR the CAB OVER design of the boat images?

61415

61416

61417

Probably mid to late 60's.

[Havasuing]

The Pay N Pak button is most likely from the late 1960s, just prior to the George Henley era (driver) which lasted from 1970 to 1975. Henley (a very talented and successful driver) was in the marine business as his full-time job, and also a sales rep for Hamilton jet drives. The Budweiser button probably is from that same early to mid 1970s period when Billy Schumacher and Mickey Remund we're doing the driving chores for Bernie Little. The Atlas Van Lines button would would be mid to late 1960s when Bill Muncey was at the wheel. When he wasn't hydro racing, Muncey was giving motivational talks to groups (Kiwanis, Rotary, etc.) on behalf of Atlas Van Lines and writing a monthly column for Powerboat Magazine.

[2manymustangs]

The Pay N Pak button is most likely from the late 1960s, just prior to the George Henley era (driver) which lasted from 1970 to 1975. Henley (a very talented and successful driver) was in the marine business as his full-time job, and also a sales rep for Hamilton jet drives. The Budweiser button probably is from that same early to mid 1970s period when Billy Schumacher and Mickey Remund we're doing the driving chores for Bernie Little. The Atlas Van Lines button would would be mid to late 1960s when Bill Muncey was at the wheel. When he wasn't hydro racing, Muncey was giving motivational talks to groups (Kiwanis, Rotary, etc.) on behalf of Atlas Van Lines and writing a monthly column for Powerboat Magazine.

:thumb: ty for the info... I think that I paid a total of $11.00 for the three, I don't see many boat racing related items at the Long Beach Antique mall consignment spaces...

[shueman]

The "first" 19' Daytona ... 1973

61484

[Sharp shooter]

The "first" 19' Daytona ... 1973

61484

73? You sure about that? :eh:

[shueman]

That's what Bob said ...

[Sharp shooter]

That's what Bob said ...

Ok, well he should know. The old magazines from back then don't show the initial testing or advertising until a couple years later.

[Sharp shooter]

This one would probably bring grads to tears. lol

http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb39/Roadroamer1/Old%20Boat%20literature%20and%20ads/Bob%20Leach_zpsktzt5pau.jpg (http://s208.photobucket.com/user/Roadroamer1/media/Old%20Boat%20literature%20and%20ads/Bob%20Leach_zpsktzt5pau.jpg.html)

[Sharp shooter]

Parker scsc race 1953

http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb39/Roadroamer1/Old%20Boat%20literature%20and%20ads/Parker%20SCSC1953_zpsuwq468wz.jpg (http://s208.photobucket.com/user/Roadroamer1/media/Old%20Boat%20literature%20and%20ads/Parker%20SCSC1953_zpsuwq468wz.jpg.html)

[HB Vic]

Parker scsc race 1953

http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb39/Roadroamer1/Old%20Boat%20literature%20and%20ads/Parker%20SCSC1953_zpsuwq468wz.jpg (http://s208.photobucket.com/user/Roadroamer1/media/Old%20Boat%20literature%20and%20ads/Parker%20SCSC1953_zpsuwq468wz.jpg.html)

I heard SCSC went back that far. Pretty cool.

[Sharp shooter]

I heard SCSC went back that far. Pretty cool.

I think they started in 1946:hmmm:

[Sharp shooter]

79

http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb39/Roadroamer1/Old%20Boat%20literature%20and%20ads/Carrera79_zpskbdtyyji.jpg (http://s208.photobucket.com/user/Roadroamer1/media/Old%20Boat%20literature%20and%20ads/Carrera79_zpskbdtyyji.jpg.html)

http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb39/Roadroamer1/Old%20Boat%20literature%20and%20ads/Carrera79Offshore_zps8a1ygyqm.jpg (http://s208.photobucket.com/user/Roadroamer1/media/Old%20Boat%20literature%20and%20ads/Carrera79Offshore_zps8a1ygyqm.jpg.html)

http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb39/Roadroamer1/Old%20Boat%20literature%20and%20ads/Taylor79_zps3gpo562z.jpg (http://s208.photobucket.com/user/Roadroamer1/media/Old%20Boat%20literature%20and%20ads/Taylor79_zps3gpo562z.jpg.html)

[Sharp shooter]

Back when shows were cool. :wink_002:

http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb39/Roadroamer1/Old%20Boat%20literature%20and%20ads/SpeedSkiCustomCarShow_zpsaokayiob.jpg (http://s208.photobucket.com/user/Roadroamer1/media/Old%20Boat%20literature%20and%20ads/SpeedSkiCustomCarShow_zpsaokayiob.jpg.html)

[Sharp shooter]

79

http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb39/Roadroamer1/Old%20Boat%20literature%20and%20ads/CatalinaRecord%20breaker79_zpstnq8o2ee.jpg (http://s208.photobucket.com/user/Roadroamer1/media/Old%20Boat%20literature%20and%20ads/CatalinaRecord%20breaker79_zpstnq8o2ee.jpg.html)

[2manymustangs]

WOW... I just started at page 1/post 1 and killed about three hours reading/reflecting...


:action-smiley-035:

[2manymustangs]

Ok, not magazine write ups, or sales adds BUT definately old school boating:

https://youtu.be/upQ-MXF_ZgI

[spike morelli]

Likely REX Hutchinson Racing Engines ( reply to post #964 ) I think...

[2manymustangs]

Likely REX Hutchinson Racing Engines ( reply to post #964 ) I think...

TY spike :)

Damn I wish I was in LB MORE at that time, and aware of this sport.... My life would have turned out differently for sure, I wouldn't have spent the 80's in CHITCAGO I can assure U of that... :D

[riverrunner1984]

Saw this online and thought it was kinda cool
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160915/b90ada9b31be262c1f86eb5854a016b0.jpg


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[riverrunner1984]

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160921/ba861207420334308e68fe9c5868a9e3.jpg


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[2manymustangs]

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160921/ba861207420334308e68fe9c5868a9e3.jpg


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

wow, the Delorian of vintage boats!!!!!!!!

[spectra3279]

Ever seen the movie "Madison"? Well this is the actual race that movie was based on.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uGDebJ2VJs0
I was four years old when this happened. I clearly remember it. It was me and my grandpa out for the day and we were watching this race. So I was there. Loved the sounds, loved the boats, loved the crowd. My grandpa lived in madison at the time.

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[riverrunner1984]

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160929/44944ed31a5ab7b3c6f69d61b6066f2a.png


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[2manymustangs]

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160929/44944ed31a5ab7b3c6f69d61b6066f2a.png


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wow that is ALOT of carbs to sync.... :schreck: