Prop Shaft

Printable View

Show 20 post(s) from this thread on one page

04-09-2014, 01:31 PM
gn7

Quote:

Originally Posted by WESTERNAERO

Sorry Sno, I can't agree with this 100%.
But a good machinist know a whole hell of a lot more than just the machine.

I agree. But they were making some pretty high power boats, specially when they were driving all the power of a TFH thru single shaft, and
with shafts machined in full manual machines long before CNC.

CNCs are no different than computers, garbage in, garbage out. Like the man leaning against a WWI lathe, he can make it the best that is possible with the machine, or make the part useless. A programmer can fuck a piece material just a easy as yahoo on a 50 year old Logan.

I look at my AFR CNC ported heads, and my Canfields hand ported by Steelcomp that have a smaller port, yet flow more across the board than my AFRs, and I say, "how the fuck did he do that." But can he reproduce the heads as quickly as a CNC. Not even close. And he used my heads to develop a CNC program. So they were on his bench for a looooong time. I was the perfect candidate because I didn't need the heads.
And I have heads that are CNC's that flow considerably less than my AFRs. Its all in the program.

In all this, nobody has even mention the tooling. It can be as important as the machine, and the operator. Hone a cylinder with the wrong hone for rings, and the bore is useless, I don't care what program was used to run the hone speed and travel.
If given the choice, I will take the CNC in the RIGHT HANDS!!
04-09-2014, 01:33 PM
ogshotgun

Quote:

Originally Posted by WESTERNAERO

Bob's mad cause you're making him mad....:asshole2:

thats what i do , and bobs made because he's bob
04-09-2014, 01:39 PM
SnoC653

Quote:

Originally Posted by WESTERNAERO

Sorry Sno, I can't agree with this 100%.
But a good machinist know a whole hell of a lot more than just the machine.

It takes a lot more old equipment to do what one modern machine can do today, but the basic shaping of metal hasn't changed. You can still only remove material in so many ways. Yes there are new tools to use and a lot more precise tools to use. Yes there are new designs that the old machines don't have the dexterity to accomplish, but it wasn't needed back in the day or else some engineer would have figured out how to do it with what they had back then.

And don't think I'm against the new machines. I think the advances in machine work is fantastic. I think the loss of so many great machinists and their replacements with operators is a tragic shame. I love talking to old machinists and hearing the passion for what they do in their voices.
04-09-2014, 01:51 PM
steveo143

Casale will machine propshafts if you supply the material. I believe they do all of Rankin's shafts.
04-09-2014, 01:58 PM
ogshotgun

Quote:

Originally Posted by steveo143

Casale will machine propshafts if you supply the material. I believe they do all of Rankin's shafts.

you can not buy the material for the price Marine machine will sell you a complete shaft for
04-09-2014, 01:59 PM
SFV2RVR

1 Attachment(s)

Prop Shaft

Quote:

Originally Posted by steveo143

Casale will machine propshafts if you supply the material. I believe they do all of Rankin's shafts.

That's not sayin much. His shit breaks too! This is from SS-80 from the long beach race.
Attachment 37753

Could've been part of the problem right here!
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/04/10/ne2aquze.jpg
04-09-2014, 02:39 PM
gn7

Quote:

Originally Posted by ogshotgun

thats what i do , and bobs made because he's bob

I not mad. Little dumb founded. But that happens to me almost everyday at work with the assclowns I have to deal with most times.

Thinking is the hardest work there is, which is probably the reason why so few engage in it.
Henry Ford
04-09-2014, 02:41 PM
gn7

Quote:

Originally Posted by SFV2RVR

That's not sayin much. His shit breaks too! This is from SS-80 from the long beach race.

Could've been part of the problem right here!

There again, posting with out thinking.
Any idea why that boat might be more prone to snapping a shaft?
Aside from the non obvious reason that could have snapped, there is some thought that the prop pitch an ear to cause that.
Ever ask Rankin, Fitz or Buckles how many props they go thru a year and why?
04-09-2014, 02:46 PM
HB Vic

Quote:

Originally Posted by gn7

I not mad. Little dumb founded. But that happens to me almost everyday at work with the assclowns I have to deal with most times.

Thinking is the hardest work there is, which is probably the reason why so few engage in it.
Henry Ford

Did you just quote Henry Ford? :wink:

What I find most prevalent, around places like this anyway, is many people disengage their fingers from their brains :D
04-09-2014, 02:52 PM
ogshotgun

Quote:

Originally Posted by gn7

There again, posting with out thinking.
Any idea why that boat might be more prone to snapping a shaft?
Aside from the non obvious reason that could have snapped, there is some thought that the prop pitch an ear to cause that.
Ever ask Rankin, Fitz or Buckles how many props they go thru a year and why?

it looks like i need a under water metal detector and i can go into the missing prop business lol> with three to five every race and some very high dollar props being tossed it might make for a lucrative weekend of diving
04-09-2014, 02:56 PM
ogshotgun

what it seems like is most people look at the broken part thats left and assume it failed, did something else fail first and cause that failure ? a old man told me once to look at the root cause of the failure, not the ending result.
04-09-2014, 03:01 PM
Brian

So what about the key way cut on the coupler end??
04-09-2014, 03:06 PM
gn7

Quote:

Originally Posted by ogshotgun

it looks like i need a under water metal detector and i can go into the missing prop business lol> with three to five every race and some very high dollar props being tossed it might make for a lucrative weekend of diving

There you go flipping your lips again. They held a race at Parker, I think I saw ONE shaft broke. I seen a whole season and no body broke one, and you go and make a mindless statement like this. You make it very easy to classify you as FULL OF SHIT!
04-09-2014, 03:12 PM
gn7

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian

So what about the key way cut on the coupler end??

Its not as susceptible because the shaft is clamped and the slot SHOULD be some distance from the back of the coupler. If you can keep the torsional twist away from the slot, outside the coupler, its not as much of problem.
In reality, the ouput shaft of the v drive is more prone to shearing off. Its the reason the smarter guys run a output 1/8 larger than the prop shaft.

Although it is possible that the SS80 shaft broke a prop ear first, and more than believable if you understand WHY, the shaft is also just looking for a reason to fail. A prop ear is more enough a reason.

If the shaft and the prop in the SS80 could finish a 20 lap main under my boat, I would be changing them both before I ran it again.
04-09-2014, 03:22 PM
gn7

Quote:

Originally Posted by WESTERNAERO

The best machinist now days started on conventional machines. Then learned to program by hand (actually need to know trig for this) and run tape. Then learned CAD/CAM. Then learned 5-axis. All the while collecting data in they're brains about materials, tooling, processing, etc. These guys are getting close to retirement now. Welcome the new age machinist right out of trade school that can't even describe how it feels to run a hacksaw through a beer can but he can CAD draw the shit out of an impeller.

Like I said in a previous post, the best of the best CNC machines is useless in the wrong hands. Even though the program could be perfect, the wrong tool/bad tool, on the wrong angle can be just as harming as the wrong speed/feed. A Sunnen Cylinder King in the wrong hands can jack up a cylinder worse than a 1950s Kwikway with somebody that knows what he is doing.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mRuSYQ5Npek
04-09-2014, 03:22 PM
HotWater

Who sells the rubbery plastic type strut bushings?
04-09-2014, 03:44 PM
gn7

Quote:

Originally Posted by HotWater

Who sells the rubbery plastic type strut bushings?

Lets fix this Sean. There is RUBBER in a metal jacket, and then there is the "plastic" stuff like Delron and Turcite. I am hoping you mean the later.

I believe Wilkes can make you a Turcite, and Steveo MIGHT make them from Delron. I know there are others. I'll check around.
04-09-2014, 03:44 PM
HotWater

Quote:

Originally Posted by WESTERNAERO

Do you run that type on your K boat? I always assumed the race guys ran the fiber laminate type.

Yeah rubber type is in there now and it's time to replace it.
04-09-2014, 03:53 PM
HotWater

Quote:

Originally Posted by gn7

Lets fix this Sean. There is RUBBER in a metal jacket, and then there is the "plastic" stuff like Delron and Turcite. I am hoping you mean the later.

I believe Wilkes can make you a Turcite, and Steveo MIGHT make them from Delron. I know there are others. I'll check around.

It's definately rubber with a thin brass or bronze sleeve around it.
04-09-2014, 03:57 PM
HotWater

Quote:

Originally Posted by WESTERNAERO

Isn't your shaft speed too much for the rubber bushing?

I don't have a tack but with 54's in the box I know the shaft speed has got to be pretty dog gone high. I'm not sure what rpm those rubber bushing's are good for.

Show 20 post(s) from this thread on one page