Its simple, get rid of the divisional speed limits. One course speed limit set by the APBA per insurance for safety reasons, not speed limits for individual classes.
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Its simple, get rid of the divisional speed limits. One course speed limit set by the APBA per insurance for safety reasons, not speed limits for individual classes.
So...in a way, the divisional speed limits turn this into a bracket race?Quote:
Originally Posted by gn7
That's exactly what they do. But in bracket racing it is written into the rules and you have a rule book you can go to, point and say, your out. No such rule exists in APBA circle racing. You can be penalized a lap for going inside a buoy, or starting before the flag drops, but not for going too fast.
The entire race is a bracket race of sorts, because boats take off at different times, or in this race are given handicap laps, as opposed to a longer head start. But that's for the overall win. The overall in this is not how the points are given out for the GN class or CJs. Thats between them. Its a APBA race inside of the enduro. You can be 15th overall, but get 1st place GN points. But speeding because you are racing a GN next to for a lap can get you penalized a lap. or maybe both of you. It is theoretically possible, and even probable with the way some GNs choose to run the race, be to be too fast every lap. Because some GNs find a pace, and some roll the dice and hammer it the whole time and hope it holds up. Each boat runs the race as he chooses and thinks is the best way to win, Its all strategy. Each guy has his way of running the race. Like the rabbit and the hare.
GN7, what do the racers want?? Just a guess but I doubt no race/venue/governing body, can or will please all racers, classes or divisions. Someone will always get left out, whether intentional or otherwise. What would you like to see as a racer, keeping in mind we spectators want as much bang (for lack of a better word :D) for our buck.
NO PENALTIES FOR SPEED! It doesn't get any easier than that. Do not penalize a race boat for going too fast. They ran 7 previous 300 with no speed limit other than one limit that applied to all boats for insurance/APBA/safety reasons and that limit applied to every boat on the water, Not individual limits for each class.
Enjoy reading your post gnu two thumbs up over hereQuote:
Originally Posted by gn7
What advantage is there for running the enduro like it was a River Racer/Nostalgic type race (Is it the extra day of racing/qualifying or is a way for them to come up with a start/position strategy)? I just don't get it. Also, how are they keeping track of the Speeds (I know in Jet River Racer they have to have a GPS in the boat)?
That's how the run automotive endurance races - like the touring and GT cars. Doesn't make sense to have individual limits, at least not to me.Quote:
Originally Posted by gn7
As far as I know they are going to use lap times. You can exceed the speed limit any where on the course, which rules out the idea of it being a safety thing, If you KNOW you are too fast you can slow down before coming to the start/finish line. How you KNOW you are too fast is something else. Rally cars have co pilots that keep track of this stuff. So the enduro racer is suppose to keep track on a stop watch??? I have no clue?Quote:
Originally Posted by 78Southwind
I cannot tell the WHY, only that from the very beginning with this race, even when there were no handicap start, and the slower boats were racing for class win because they had no chance of an over all, there were still speed limits on the lower classes, but NONE on the top class. It pretty much assured that a top class boat would win. I was not intended to be a handicap type race. And that cool and I have problem with it being a heads up race, but why the speed limits on the lower classes?
Some how the idea of limiting the lower classes stuck even when it was changed to a handicap race.
My guess, the start times and speed limits will reflect a bias towards the top division. Won't know that until the times and lap handicaps are set on Friday. But its my guess. From the beginning, RD has shown he doesn't care for the race being won buy something other than the fastest boat on the water. I understand the thinking, but then just have a heads up race and do away with the handicap and no speed limits other than one for all boats for safety reasons, or do what was done in previous 300s and write the rules so boats that fast can't enter. You can't run a Indy car at a Nascar race. Nobody is ever going to allow a Unlimited hydro run the enduro. Limiting the type of boat engine size that can run has been done before. Its done is all forms of motor racing everyday. There are limits to Nascar, Indy, drags, Formula 1. Problem was, he found out vast majority of the entries wouldn't be there if he ran it as a heads up race with no handicap start. The majority of the boats are out there trying to win the overall.
I just wanted stop by and say hi before the name calling restarted and the thread got locked again.............
CC
My feeling is the handicap deal is a joke. It should be run like they do in off road. In the Baja races a 1-2 1600 car driver knows he doesn't have a chance at overall (unless something truly magical happens), and is racing against his class, not trophy trucks and class 1 cars. They all do so on the same course at the same time. They know if they want a chance to win overall they need to build a vehicle capable of doing that.
If you want to win the race overall, in the enduro, build a boat to compete in a class that has contentions for an overall victory.
If you want to cut down on closing speed, why limit the fastest class? Why not get rid of the slowest class? After all no one is there to watch a 60 mph boat, they can see that on any given weekend in Parker. The majority of spectators come to see the fast class, as with the circle races. Why do you think they put the SS, Gn's and K boats at the end of the day? If they put them earlier in the day, spectators would leave after seeing them run.
Seems there is a lot of interest in this thread.
It's been pretty civil lately. Just a good discussion on racing.Quote:
Originally Posted by CampbellCarl
somethings have to be aired , then get to the real business.... I don't have a boat in the race, or a dog in the fight, but all in all it's a pretty informational thread....I read it...Quote:
Originally Posted by Hotboat
We can change that! :wink:Quote:
Originally Posted by Hotboat
Oh I know that, in a split second I'm sure :DQuote:
Originally Posted by H2oSki2Fast
I tend to agree with you. I stopped drag racing when bracket and E.T. classes started becoming the norm. But just like drag racing, it you get rid of it, the entries will tumble. Big time.Quote:
Originally Posted by H2oSki2Fast
When the GNs run the enduro, they are too busy and concerned with where the other GNs are, specially if they are in the top 3-4 in the points. They are also too busy playing chess strategy with each other to bother noticing or caring where they are in the overall. The 2 GNs that have won the over all, never knew they were leading untll maybe 10 laps from the end, and then the decision is, do you push it to stay up front at risk of break the thing.
I personally have no problem with a heads up race. I think the fast boats have the right and deserve to win the over all because of the investment in those things. But I can assure you it will impact the entry count considerably. That was the belief RD had originally. Heads up, mass start like the old race, with the fast boats up front on the start. The idea was that class win would be good enough and the prize money would make up for the fact that you have no chance of the overall. Too many people don't see it that way, and that is exactly why the race was set up this way 8 years ago. I don't think you could ever come up eith enough money for somebody to pass on the overall win, and remember, the overall SHOULD get the bulk of the payout. The over all is a double pay out. Division win and overall. If try to pay the classes enough to not care about the overall, then you down play the over all win.
The reason the race died to start with was that in the early days, most of the boats were all pretty much equal. Some where high dollar, but the hulls and engines were all pretty much the same, you mainly had to endure. Then the factory outboards from Merc and Evinrude started showing up and ran away with every race, and the average guy said screw it and stopped coming.
I understand your thinking, and it is the normal thinking of those not racing it, but the reality is, I don't think that many boats will show up for a heads up race. Its something that was kicked around from the very start years ago, and it didn't get much response.
Now flip the thought, and say the top guns say screw this racing with handicaps, we're gone. You lose maybe 5 boats, as opposed to 25. You have to make the most people happy to get the most boats on the water. Most of the boats aren't in the caliber to run heads up for the overall.
Now that's a wave full of compliments! Thanks Bob!! It's very appreciated! :3:Quote:
Originally Posted by gn7
Did anyone get the email that came out at 8 PM?
It gives some details and drivers names.
CH3NO2
Pretty sure I'm not on RD's mailing list lol. You can post it up if you'd like.Quote:
Originally Posted by Carbon