Parker 300

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Originally Posted by Wendi

He has no idea what he is talking about. There are 30+ registered as of last count.

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Yeah but he could be full of pizza, peanuts, and beer, you don't actually know what he's full of.

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Originally Posted by H2oSki2Fast

Hammer, I absolutely understand you having to take care of your family, and commend you for that. Although, you were NEVER planning on entering this race, even before this tragic event happened in your life, please don't use your family as an excuse in this argument.

As far as johnson goes, at some point, you will see his true colors and that, "friends come and go" - johnson, when it happens you will look back and see he wasn't the great guy he portrays himself to be. Johnson only looks out for one thing, himself. You will find this out one day.

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I was planning on volunteering to help in any way possible to see this race succeed, it could've been the previous regime, you or whoever.

The point I was making is that most of the racers have a personal vendetta or hatred towards anyone but Ross Wallach it seems. At least that's the way GN7 makes it sound.

As far as ME racing, I had backing to do so and could have, just because I don't post a HEY LAM thread doesn't mean I wasn't thinking about it. I've never raced a boat before and I was too intimidated of the Enduro to enter....

If racers REALLY cared about this particular Race they'd put their egos aside and volunteer to be a patrol boat or in any other aspect to help the race . Instead, since it's not a points race(supposedly), you choose to boycott and stay home instead of support the sport you love......

I just see this thread as a bash Dave Johnson thread, should've left it locked Vic......

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Originally Posted by Hammer

I just see this thread as a bash Dave Johnson thread, should've left it locked Vic......

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If that's the case make it a "Sticky:". ;)

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Originally Posted by Hammer

I was planning on volunteering to help in any way possible to see this race succeed, it could've been the previous regime, you or whoever.

The point I was making is that most of the racers have a personal vendetta or hatred towards anyone but Ross Wallach it seems. At least that's the way GN7 makes it sound.

As far as ME racing, I had backing to do so and could have, just because I don't post a HEY LAM thread doesn't mean I wasn't thinking about it. I've never raced a boat before and I was too intimidated of the Enduro to enter....

If racers REALLY cared about this particular Race they'd put their egos aside and volunteer to be a patrol boat or in any other aspect to help the race . Instead, since it's not a points race(supposedly), you choose to boycott and stay home instead of support the sport you love......

I just see this thread as a bash Dave Johnson thread, should've left it locked Vic......

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Patrol boat? You can't tell a race horse to sit. Especially when you made a dog race that horses can't enter.

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Originally Posted by Cigalert

Patrol boat? You can't tell a race horse to sit. Especially when you made a dog race that horses can't enter.

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You're just as biased as everyone else here . You all (except KAP and few others) make this about one thing you all can agree on, you hate Dave want to see him fail and not just with this event. If that means the Enduro goes down with him, So be it.

I'm done here, it's a loosing argument for all sides.

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Originally Posted by GRADS

If that's the case make it a "Sticky:". ;)

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I honestly would like to meet you, a lot of people don't like you , as for me I don't pass judgement until I've met someone and you've done me wrong....

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Originally Posted by Hammer

I honestly would like to meet you, a lot of people don't like you , as for me I don't pass judgement until I've met someone and you've done me wrong....

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Let's make it happen.:thumbup:

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Originally Posted by Hotboat

Yeah but he could be full of pizza, peanuts, and beer, you don't actually know what he's full of.

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Yes, but eventually that all turns to shit right? ;) Just had to get in before the lock down.

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Originally Posted by Hammer

I'm done here, it's a loosing argument for all sides.

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Agreed that's it's somewhat of a losing argument on both sides. Sure does suck being on that end of the mob mentality.

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Originally Posted by Hammer

I just see this thread as a bash Dave Johnson thread, should've left it locked Vic......

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I'm real close to locking it up again. For the record, I sincerely hope this race is a success for many reasons. Primarily for the racers, they are the ones putting on the show (and risking more than just metal and fiberglass in the process) for all of us to enjoy. Without their passion for the sport, we'd be watching sailing boats or worse, jet ski races lol. Secondary to the racers is the boating industry as a whole. Right now the boating industry is super fragile. What little the economy hasn't run over is always being threatened by the regulators. So the sport really can't take much more load. The sport can't afford failure. Some of whats been said here has been said out of anger, but quite honestly, I believe its been said out of passion. These guys live, eat, and breathe racing. So when things don't fall in to place and they can't or won't race, they get pissed off. Who wouldn't?? Some of the other questions appear to be legitimate. And I honestly don't know enough about this race to answer one way or the other. I'm not going to lock down a thread where someone appears to be asking legitimate questions. I will send down a final warning however, please stop the personal attacks or I will not only lock this thread down, I will delete it. Carry on. Nicely please :D

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Originally Posted by GRADS

I saw it on a billboard.
Attachment 22538

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The thing I've learned about GRADS is he's harmless. I chuckled when I saw this. Another very good example of poor humor timing by GRADS. Bravo :D

If you can't laugh, you can't live. So live a little :D

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Originally Posted by H2oSki2Fast

Hammer, I absolutely understand you having to take care of your family, and commend you for that. Although, you were NEVER planning on entering this race, even before this tragic event happened in your life, please don't use your family as an excuse in this argument.

As far as johnson goes, at some point, you will see his true colors and that, "friends come and go" - johnson, when it happens you will look back and see he wasn't the great guy he portrays himself to be. Johnson only looks out for one thing, himself. You will find this out one day.

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this is all so true,..

I don't know if this goes in this thread or not but,

I don't like RD... or anything to do with him and wish he would just leave me alone and not call or talk to me..

i don't know why hammer has to pop up over here and try to make likers out of the dislikers, but one day he will join us....

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Originally Posted by Mateo

Agreed that's it's somewhat of a losing argument on both sides. Sure does suck being on that end of the mob mentality.

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There is about as much mob mentality with me as the is a loss, absolutely none! At least I will say, in person, the same thing I will say on a forum.

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Originally Posted by H2oSki2Fast

There is about as much mob mentality with me as the is a loss, absolutely none! At least I will say, in person, the same thing I will say on a forum.

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Mob might have been the wrong word. How about the "majority"?

<------- Switzerland. :D

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Originally Posted by Mateo

Sure does suck being on that end of the mob mentality.

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I wouldn't know.:rolleyes

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Originally Posted by KAP

I still have a lot of questions which remain unanswered.

1. Why would a promoter not want the GN boats to run at their event?
I never said they he doesn't want the GNs there. I am sure he does. he may be a lot of things, be he is not stupid. He needs boats, all the boats he can get, and GNs tend to be favorites because they make a little more noise than a string jerker.
Where he made the mistake is thinking MONEY was all he needed to get them, and I tried in vain to explain that's not the case, or nearly enough.

2. I would think a final season race for points at this event is a draw for any group of racers.
It always did in the past, I tripled the number of GNs and CJs when it became a points race. Again this was all explained to RD at the meeting.
A. What were the obstacles between the parties that excluded GN boats from running?
Points. This shouldn't be so hard to understand, unless you are RD.

3. I disagree with the premise that purse money is not a factor. I have never encountered a racer who is already committed to a season of racing say....Hey! I came for the points and decline the purse money. If I had 10K in purse money for first place you would have teams coming out of the woodwork scrambling to sign up. Thus, one can only conclude that points and purse is icing on the cake.
Well, I take it you do not campaign a circle boat all year. Winnings are a gamble and the amount is PEANUTS. It may be 6000, or 10,000. But its spread across an entire field, and NO explanation of the pay by class, or overall finish. So you win your class and win 500.00, and the over 3rd gets 1200.00? I don't know, and I am not all that interested without knowing, Again, the payout was never all the when Ross did pay out. About 6-9000 across the ENTIRE field. Not enough to lose sleep over. Lose 150 points, and FORGET THE CHANPIONSHIP! I will trade 500 for the championship every day of the week. If you race for money, find another sport. Again, if you believe what you say, then you sound a lot like RD, and we see how the money thing is working for him. IT IS NOT A BOAT DRAW.ONLY SPECTATORS BELIEVE THAT
4. RD did respond to my question about payouts and indicated the purse money was in excess of 6K. However, they need to describe how that will be paid out and the sums. Also listing participants is important to me if you have a lot of guys racing it draws people to the event.
Because it exposes the fallacy of the money as a draw. If he uses boat entries as pay back, then a class with 3 boats gets pay almost jack shit. If he makes it even across the classes, he is screwing the high boat count classes where its harder to win due to the number of boats. Does he pay the same for Div I as Div VII where it cost 5 times as much to run the boat as a 100HP outboard? The winnings won't pay for one drum of fuel. RD stated in the very beginning he would pay MORE THAN ALL THE PREVIOUS 300 COMBINED!! The very first 300 paid 9000.00, all the money paid out in all the 300s is in the excess of 6000.00 ON AVERAGE!!! Even if you include last years ZERO payout. So again, there may have been a little lying going on here. Nothing unusual for RD
As for the old guard that was the base of this race... change is difficult to accept. Therefore, concessions need to be made but the West Coast needs this race. Why! well there is no other endurance race on the west...other than perhaps the Catalina Ski Race...there was the Rum run awhile back but it faded into history.

I for one would love to see this race happen every year and have a desire to participate with an entry of mine. However, I certainly would not spend the resources if the rules change yearly or at the whim and agenda of a particular group. Then again politics and boat racing is synonymous with each other.
Lots of races fade away. The original Parker 9hr faded away. The Salton Sea 500 faded away. It happens. Rule changes??? The rules of this race changed 3 times in 3 weeks! Nobody remembers RDs mass start no handicap "New Race-New Format" claims? They lasted less than a month and he looked so follish he removed the threads completely from the forums. He doesn't take looking stupid well. Lucky for him, he has keys to the place and can omit what ever does show him in the light he likes.

KAP

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Originally Posted by pvhca1

GN7, got no beef with you, but you need to chill on the shit talking about RD, either confront him like a man or let it go. Too be honest if you talked shit like this about me I'd kick your ass. Doesn't matter if you disagree with his ideas etc etc, the 7th grade pissing match needs to go away. If he's talking shit about you I must have missed it, I did see you start this whole thing months back when he started the Enduro thread. Let it go, put your emotions to good and positive use and maybe figure out what's best for the race's future.

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I have had numerous exchanges with RD outside his website that very few people know of. So please get ALL your facts straight before you put your filthy finger in my eye! I had one 4 hour meeting with his race director, who has pretty much instructed RD to step out of the race nuts and bolts, and that was probably a good idea. RD is not a race person. One problem is, his race director has his issues as well, and is know as the great divider in the APBA circles. ASK RIVERGAMES(ANDREW). I am not making it up. So you have a less than highly endorsed person in charge of thing to draw APBA races to the thing, and he may have not been the best choice. Again, a choice RD made, and he has to deal with that. He NEEDED somebody, because RD COULD NOT go to the APBA himself, they have no clue who he is or care. he need a APBA club and somebody the APBA recognized. The bar tender at Foxes knows RD, but not the APBA brass,

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Originally Posted by Hammer

I was planning on volunteering to help in any way possible to see this race succeed, it could've been the previous regime, you or whoever.

The point I was making is that most of the racers have a personal vendetta or hatred towards anyone but Ross Wallach it seems. At least that's the way GN7 makes it sound.

As far as ME racing, I had backing to do so and could have, just because I don't post a HEY LAM thread doesn't mean I wasn't thinking about it. I've never raced a boat before and I was too intimidated of the Enduro to enter....

If racers REALLY cared about this particular Race they'd put their egos aside and volunteer to be a patrol boat or in any other aspect to help the race . Instead, since it's not a points race(supposedly), you choose to boycott and stay home instead of support the sport you love......

I just see this thread as a bash Dave Johnson thread, should've left it locked Vic......

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Not sure why you see it as a RD bashing thread when EVERYTHING said is true and can be verified, BY SCOTT SCHATZ!!! You talk to RD too much and you have his side of it. Bottom line, the boats are showing up that could, and RDs decisions are why. That cannot be disputed by RD himself. As for you running the event, I wish you and everybody else would!!1 because then you would have a leg to stand on when you make some of the ridiculous statements you make. Right off I questioned RD about the number of his nutswingers were running the event. If all RD loyal followers entered this race, it would be bigger than the Baja, and Indy and Daytona COMBINED. The reality is, they just pat his back and tell him he is the greatest man in all boating. But of course he can't rely on the nutswinging loyalists because they can only provide lip service, and not about to pour out 5-6000 to run this race, IF THEY AHD THE BALLS!!!

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Originally Posted by Hotboat

I'm real close to locking it up again.

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Well I am kind of glad you did, because I felt some of this needed to be replied to, specially those questions directed at me. Locking this out is akin to RD trashing someone AFTER he bans them so they can't respond. He is that weak, and that low. Its his trademark MO.

GN7

I applaud your commentary and factual analysis of the issues.

Great job and very candid...also more powerful than name calling.

Once again, thank you for your insight and answers to my questions.

Hope to see you soon at an event.

KAP

P.S. I agree I would rather have the Championship than a couple grand in money any day. Having both is sweet.

There are a lot of people eyeballing this thread. LOL.

There are currently 19 users browsing this thread. (15 members and 4 guests)
RogerThat99, 2FORCEFULL+, 76Bonneville, Bezer1, Body Snatcher, Carbon, framer1, gn7, H2oSki2Fast, Hallett240, KAP, Mateo, RVR SWPR, wings_of_eagles

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Originally Posted by rivergames

Hey Bob, You mean to tell me rules were changed so you can't get GN points? NO Way! never heard of that happening before :lmao

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YES YES YES
I will say this AGAIN, we Ted Kolby(Inboard Endurance Chairman), Ben Morrone, Terry Valore, and myself,(I.E. commissioners) and Roger Carr(APBA Region 12 cahirman) and one of RD cling-ons(Mike 138 on the boards) all sat down for over 4 hours hammer out the rules BEFORE THEY WERE EVER POSTED ON RDP. and we could not come to a means to allow the race to be a sanctioned APBA race for ANY class except GPS 95. Because GPS 95 is the ONLY APBA class with a speed limit.
All previous 300s had a SINGLE course speed limit that no boat was allowed to exceed. Everybody saw this as a restriction for the Nordic, but the truth is, it applied to ALL boats including Teague and Gary H. It was a speed high enough that no GN was likely to exceed in 300 mile race with the engine restrictions we have. So it never imposed a problem.
However RD has from day one, even with his old mass start race format INSISTED on class speed limits. I know why, and he has his reasons. That's cool, its his race to run as he likes. But when he makes a rule for one reason, it can have its effects on what is REALLY A RACE for some boats.

As of this very moment, in fact up until Friday night before the race, nobody, not Scott, not RD can tell anybody what there speed limit will be. They cannot really tell you what you handicap and start time will be. They have no clue until Friday night. So a GN enters the race, and the speed limit is 85 or 90, and a GN exceeds that, he is penalized a lap. ANDREW, YOU EVER BEEN PENALIZED FOR GOING TOO FAST IN A APBA RACE?? Have you EVER seen a APBA boat penalized for going too fast? Can you cite be the rule that allows the penalizing a boat for going too fast? I you were penalized for going too fast, would you protest the ruling?
Do you watch a speedo or clock to make sure you do not go too fast in a race?

In 4 hrs of talks, plus another hour on the phone with Scott 2 weeks ago, they could not come up an agreeable speed limit, or a solution to the problem that was agreeable with RD so we are where we are. No inboard endurance sanction for points for either GNs or CJs.