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topolino2
07-03-2017, 11:59 AM
6533165332I just purchased a 1966 Howard Walnut deck V drive ski boat. Has not seen water since 1984 and was covered with a tarp for years. The gel coat was in pretty bad shape on the walnut deck but a little elbow grease and lacquer thinner brought most of it back to life. Will need a little repair and new top coat but the boat floor and stringers are in amazing shape. It's got a 327 Chevy but its been bored to .060 so it may end up being an anchor. Bottom is perfect. Some delamination between top and hull but not too serious.
I am new to V Drives. This one has a Thorobred and that may have to go also. Not sure.
I ran D class Outboards in my youth and had a Sidcraft Utility hull with Merc. 50 HP. Wish I had it again but I doubt my knees would take that abuse again.
Here is a shot of the boat.
I am sure I will have a ton of questions as this is my first time and this site appears to have all the experts as members.

2manymustangs
07-03-2017, 12:48 PM
very nice projectkeepsake topolino, welcome to HB, where it all started ;)

post up some photos of the Vdrive if you don't mind, there is plenty of expertise here to answer most questions... IF the folks here don't know, we know how to get the technical details your after... :thumbsUp:

topolino2
07-03-2017, 01:30 PM
Thanks, I will get some photos out of the drive. The previous owner is sending me all his documentation. He ordered the boat and was the only owner. He stated that he did not want any unnecessary hardware and that included the Howard script. He would never let anyone on the deck and did all the fittings himself. The workmanship in the installation is top shelf but weathered. It came from middle California and never saw salt. Seats are good patterns at best and the ply appears to be usable. Howard trailer is rust free but the 6 lug wheels have to go.
Don't want to rush it and need to know about things like sealing the prop shaft and rudder. Don't want my first voyage to be Titanic.

HB Vic
07-05-2017, 08:46 PM
Wow that's history right there. Look forward to seeing more of it [emoji41]


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Dryhoze1
07-06-2017, 05:41 PM
Nice find !!

Love it 👍🏼

I'm in the middle of a 66 Sanger Wooddeck restoration

2manymustangs
07-08-2017, 08:12 AM
Thanks, I will get some photos out of the drive. The previous owner is sending me all his documentation. He ordered the boat and was the only owner. He stated that he did not want any unnecessary hardware and that included the Howard script. He would never let anyone on the deck and did all the fittings himself. The workmanship in the installation is top shelf but weathered. It came from middle California and never saw salt. Seats are good patterns at best and the ply appears to be usable. Howard trailer is rust free but the 6 lug wheels have to go.
Don't want to rush it and need to know about things like sealing the prop shaft and rudder. Don't want my first voyage to be Titanic.

Prop shaft seal should be a easy deal, we have several good resources here for dripless couplings & tech... Let me see if I can summons one for you to ask questions, in the mean time it would be good to see some pics of the existing coupling and the strut from the bottom side of the hull too (in addition to the drive). :thumbsUp:

topolino2
07-09-2017, 08:25 AM
Here are some shots of the Howard after getting the upholstery out of the boat. My assumption is the .060 over 327 is probably going to need a new block. 327's are not easy to find but 350's are a dime a dozen.
This engine has Corvette heads so they may need to rebuilt and saved. Thoughts?
I'm told the V drive is set up at 9 degrees. When I uncouple the drive and rotate the shaft the strut screams lube! Plan on taking the shaft out and check for bent shaft and inspect the bushings in the strut.
Here is my problem. I did not put it together and need to know what first steps to break everything free.
Do I break the shaft coupling and mounting for the V drive and pull it forward to expose the drive shaft flanges or is the drive shaft splined to the engine an pull the engine rearward?
Wiring
The wiring appears to be either eaten by mice and got hot. Seems a bit unlikely that mice could eat the copper so I am assuming that something went wrong at some time. Additionally, the wires used were automotive grade and not marine and do not follow the color coding spec for marine use. My plan is to rewire the complete system. I have not been under the dash to see if there are proper fuses to protect the system. Any thoughts?
Fiberglass
Here are some shots of the delamination. I inspected the underside and found wood supports for the top to hull and they appear to be in good shape. I think we have vibration and pounding that has caused the fiberglass at the surface to break free in areas. I have 4 oz. fiberglass woven sheet on the way. I like the very lightweight as multiple layers can be applied with minimal thickness increases. Plan on Epoxy as the resin system over Polyester. Once again. your thoughts?
So here we are. Plan a new engine, seal off the prop shaft and rudder, rewire the boat and repair all the delamination in the hull. Any comments, suggestions and technical advise is appreciated.
Chuck Poe65350653516535265353653546535565356653576535865 359653606536165362653636536465365

2manymustangs
07-09-2017, 11:35 AM
WOW, she looks VERY intact/original... I would get her on the water first thing and see how you like her before you rip her all apart for resto/repairs... Maybe back it into the water somewhere close after you get it running to ensure the shaft seal is decent enough for a few outings...

ALSO, a new impeller on the water pump is a must...

WANNABE / FC Pilot & the Millers (on here) could probably spec out a really sweet SBC for you that wouldn't break the bank IF the 327 can't be salvaged... They have a cool new small block project that just hit the water... >>>> http://www.wannaberacing.com/sk51.html (http://www.wannaberacing.com/sk51.html)

topolino2
07-17-2017, 11:39 AM
Greetings all,
Well, I removed the 327 engine from the boat after talking to the original owner and he informed me that the engine was experiencing blow back so the engine was due for work. After sitting 33 years I was amazed that it was not stuck. Being .060 over I thought I might just need to replace the short block with a 350 small block.
This is where I could use some help. I've been researching marine engines verses car engines, Dart short blocks and have some mechanics that want to open up the 327 and install oversize rings, check the bearings and rebuild the Corvette heads.
US Marine offers a 1995 Chevy 350 long block with a 7 year guarantee for $2,600. A Dart 350 is around the same in short block. Rebuilding the 327 with oversize rings, new bearings and head work is around $1,500.
Since these boats are delivering speed at higher rpms than cars going similar speeds, I thought that the marine application may be a better choice with the specific cams, valve springs and balancing that work better at sustained high rpms.
What do you think? Want to build the boat with the most reliable potential. Once I get it back in, I really don't want to take it out for a long time.

2manymustangs
07-18-2017, 04:52 AM
A boat engine is loaded all the time, like a tow rig pulling a trailer (fully loaded) up hill always... Which is unlike a car application...

The Miller guys should be able to coach you on this SBC and the potential for issues with a .060 over vintage block...

You may want to give some idea of your budget for the mill...

2manymustangs
07-18-2017, 10:17 AM
Thanks, I will get some photos out of the drive. The previous owner is sending me all his documentation. He ordered the boat and was the only owner. He stated that he did not want any unnecessary hardware and that included the Howard script. He would never let anyone on the deck and did all the fittings himself. The workmanship in the installation is top shelf but weathered. It came from middle California and never saw salt. Seats are good patterns at best and the ply appears to be usable. Howard trailer is rust free but the 6 lug wheels have to go.
Don't want to rush it and need to know about things like sealing the prop shaft and rudder. Don't want my first voyage to be Titanic.

Hey, check this thread http://www.hotboat.com/frm/showthread.php?t=7381 you can find a contact and info about shaft seal in that thread :)

topolino2
09-16-2017, 02:09 PM
66122
Thought I would let you know the current status of the 1966 Howard.
Pulled the 327 and purchased a built 350. Comp cams provided the marine cam and associated hardware. Various bits from local and Ebay sources. Painted Torch red. The engine has Dart Iron eagle heads
and was a fresh rebuild but the last owner either had too large a carburetor or wrong cam as it would not idle. Pulled it and went big block so it ended up in my hands. I pulled it down to the short block and saw nothing that would
give me concern.
The boat is coming along well. I routed out the cracks and have used 2.5 oz. fiberglass in the layups. I like the thin glass as I can put several layers up and still be under the thickness of a single layer of 6oz.
Now going through sanding and getting ready to finish the wood deck.
I did remove the single coat of fiberglass cloth from the deck as there were areas of delamination of the veneer that had to be addressed. If you have never done this, I would encourage you do whatever to avoid this step. I used heat guns, lifting scrapers and surgical knives to get it off. A job I am glad to say is off my bucket list. Got it done but wonder if it was worth the trouble to avoid seeing unsaturated glass cloth from 50 years ago. After all, was that not original?
Will be posting photos of the boat shortly.

topolino2
10-06-2017, 02:54 PM
Here are a couple of shots of the Howard getting the deck sprayed in Orange. Thought that the Orange with the dark Walnut would be a nice combination. Besides, having an Orange boat in Tennessee is not a bad idea.
The deck cracks were a real pain to get right and it has taken more hours than I care to think about. I would, however, if I ever take on a similar project would use Polyester for this edge repair over Epoxy. The Epoxy will be fine to
do the wood deck but it does not like sanding like polyester.
This photos are of the first pass in base coat. Once down, I wet sanded it in 220 grit to make sure everything is flat and ready for clear. Tomorrow we go back to a couple more coats of Orange then three coats of clear.
With that complete, we then go onto the wood deck for staining and epoxy and varnish. So far, it's going well but probably won't see water till next year.665306653166532

Sanger_Spectra
10-06-2017, 03:28 PM
I love that Orange! will look great with the wood deck.

HB Vic
10-06-2017, 04:34 PM
Very nice. Going to be beautiful when it’s finished


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Mrs.K034
10-07-2017, 09:11 AM
Nice!! [emoji1303]


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topolino2
10-13-2017, 03:45 AM
66534 Got the deck repaired and a coat of dark walnut stain. Will need to let it sit for a week or two to allow the oil to evaporate then its onto epoxy and varnish.

Mrs.K034
10-28-2017, 11:30 AM
66534 Got the deck repaired and a coat of dark walnut stain. Will need to let it sit for a week or two to allow the oil to evaporate then its onto epoxy and varnish.

Any updates on this?


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topolino2
11-11-2017, 08:38 AM
A little learning curve when it come to epoxy resin. Attempted to coat the rear section of the Howard and the resin wanted to pool and gather rather than stay a uniform coat. Sanded it back to a uniform film and by the way, Epoxy does not like sanding like Polyester. Contacted total boat to find a solution and they recommended their Totalboat penetrating epoxy. This is a very thin resin that is designed to soak into the wood and fortify the wood fibers. Since we are in the midst of the weather changing, I purchased the cold weather formula and as luck would have it, Tennessee has been quite warm right up till now so I have had to wait for cooler temperatures.
Once I get the epoxy down, the next coats (4-5) will be two component clear varnish.
The Upholstery is complete and ready to go and the engine is ready. I purchased a Quick Fuel 650 CFM marine carburetor and had to jetted and flow tested based on the cam, heads and bore so it should be close right out of the box.
Promise to keep you up to date as progress is made.

Mrs.K034
11-11-2017, 10:19 PM
A little learning curve when it come to epoxy resin. Attempted to coat the rear section of the Howard and the resin wanted to pool and gather rather than stay a uniform coat. Sanded it back to a uniform film and by the way, Epoxy does not like sanding like Polyester. Contacted total boat to find a solution and they recommended their Totalboat penetrating epoxy. This is a very thin resin that is designed to soak into the wood and fortify the wood fibers. Since we are in the midst of the weather changing, I purchased the cold weather formula and as luck would have it, Tennessee has been quite warm right up till now so I have had to wait for cooler temperatures.
Once I get the epoxy down, the next coats (4-5) will be two component clear varnish.
The Upholstery is complete and ready to go and the engine is ready. I purchased a Quick Fuel 650 CFM marine carburetor and had to jetted and flow tested based on the cam, heads and bore so it should be close right out of the box.
Promise to keep you up to date as progress is made.


Hey, thank you for the update!! Learning what works is part of the fun, right? It’s all that messed up hard work that you had to do three times before it’s right that makes it all worth even more when it’s done, right?! I can’t wait for more on this! Going to be one of my faves when it’s done.


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topolino2
01-24-2018, 05:47 AM
68227
Update:
was going for the last coat of epoxy before the varnish. Plant was cold so after I applied the coating, I decided to warm up the area and lit up a Kerosene salamander. As soon as the air started the warm the entire Epoxy coating started to fish eye.
Found out later that these heaters are pretty dirty and put out oil which the epoxy does not like. Having to sand it back then get it really clean before attempting it again.

HB Vic
01-24-2018, 07:10 AM
That sucks. But I have heard kerosene heaters do spit out oil. Bummer tho.

Mrs.K034
01-24-2018, 07:43 PM
Man, that sucks.


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Dryhoze1
02-02-2018, 12:11 AM
That’s a bummer for sure.
Be real careful with any temperature changes before or after application of epoxy. Turning on heat or pulling the boat out into the sun before or after application will always cause headaches. Apply at a nice comfortable temperature then leave to dry naturally.
Are you set on using the varnish after the epoxy ? If it was me I’d sand back your last coat of epoxy to 600 or so and shoot it with a nice automotive clear. Clears nowadays are awesome & have some great uv protection built in.I can give you some reference to some proven products that I’ve come to like with great results.

Keep at it !!
All the best,
Brian

Sanger_Spectra
02-02-2018, 06:15 PM
I would agree with Brian on the clear, this boat was not done with epoxy but old school polyester resin, boat was finished around 2000' if not earlier and still looks beautiful. Clear was PPG Concept 2021 on this one but the price on that product has just gotten stupid, I used Southern Polyurethanes inc on my Spectra and was very happy with the clear.

Cofooter
02-08-2018, 11:34 AM
That’s a bummer for sure.
Be real careful with any temperature changes before or after application of epoxy. Turning on heat or pulling the boat out into the sun before or after application will always cause headaches. Apply at a nice comfortable temperature then leave to dry naturally.
Are you set on using the varnish after the epoxy ? If it was me I’d sand back your last coat of epoxy to 600 or so and shoot it with a nice automotive clear. Clears nowadays are awesome & have some great uv protection built in.I can give you some reference to some proven products that I’ve come to like with great results.

Keep at it !!
All the best,
Brian

Please provide some references if you could for a project I am doing with epoxy, for not only clear over epoxy coated floors, but also a recommended "system" for primer/base/clear for the hull that can be made to look good by an amateur, haha. Thanks!!!!!

Cofooter
02-08-2018, 11:35 AM
You guys got some beautiful flatties!!!!

Dryhoze1
02-11-2018, 10:42 AM
Please provide some references if you could for a project I am doing with epoxy, for not only clear over epoxy coated floors, but also a recommended "system" for primer/base/clear for the hull that can be made to look good by an amateur, haha. Thanks!!!!!



Hi Cofoot

Others will know better than me, but here are the products I use and like.
Pm if any questions!

Duratec products (go to Hawkeye industries to reference these )

And to me the best clear SPI

For paint just a good catalyze urethane. SPI sells some nice paints as well
Good luck

Cofooter
02-12-2018, 04:35 PM
Thank you, Dryhoze, I will check these out!!!!

2manymustangs
02-16-2018, 09:52 AM
Agreed on the URETHANE clear on top of the epoxy OR flow coat polyester resin... That is the normal practice for UV protection... I have consulted with the wizards on this topic numerous times for wood deck conversions/floors/all wood boats/etc...

Any quality Urethane clear will do... I personally use the PPG line, they do have a value (economy line) that I have had good luck with. My last paint job on my 5.0 fox body was cleared with the value line from PPG and it looks amazing after quite a few years of full sun/weather/winter and no special wax/treatment...

As for the oil mist from the salamander heater, I never did hear of this happening before BUT it makes perfect sense, its basically a huge paint gun misting out atomized oil....... Sorry you had to find that out the hard way... :(

Cofooter
02-16-2018, 10:35 AM
Thank you, sir!

Dryhoze1
03-04-2018, 06:11 PM
Any update?

topolino2
06-17-2018, 01:10 PM
Been a very long time. Boat became an off again on again project as I took on a house exterior remodel, business volume increase and a darn cold winter that made work on the boat in my plant difficult. Fortunately in Tennessee, we skip spring and go directly from winter to full blown summer. Epoxy was sanded after my screw up of turning on a kerosene heater to help cure the epoxy. That was a very long process.
starting to put Urethane clear down. It's House of Kolor. Lays down nice and has a great UV inhibitor package. This is only two coats and will get six before wet sanding and polish. Thanks to all out there that helped me in the right direction.6893068931689326893368934

Dryhoze1
06-17-2018, 10:32 PM
Looking awesome

Thanks for the update !!

Mrs.K034
06-18-2018, 07:33 PM
Been a very long time. Boat became an off again on again project as I took on a house exterior remodel, business volume increase and a darn cold winter that made work on the boat in my plant difficult. Fortunately in Tennessee, we skip spring and go directly from winter to full blown summer. Epoxy was sanded after my screw up of turning on a kerosene heater to help cure the epoxy. That was a very long process.
starting to put Urethane clear down. It's House of Kolor. Lays down nice and has a great UV inhibitor package. This is only two coats and will get six before wet sanding and polish. Thanks to all out there that helped me in the right direction.6893068931689326893368934

Wow! [emoji122][emoji7] gotta love the wood deck! I can’t wait to see this thing finished!


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Cofooter
06-19-2018, 07:26 AM
Been a very long time. Boat became an off again on again project as I took on a house exterior remodel, business volume increase and a darn cold winter that made work on the boat in my plant difficult. Fortunately in Tennessee, we skip spring and go directly from winter to full blown summer. Epoxy was sanded after my screw up of turning on a kerosene heater to help cure the epoxy. That was a very long process.
starting to put Urethane clear down. It's House of Kolor. Lays down nice and has a great UV inhibitor package. This is only two coats and will get six before wet sanding and polish. Thanks to all out there that helped me in the right direction.6893068931689326893368934

Topolino, came out beautiful. Nice work. What sandpaper grit did you use for the final sanding prior to clear? Thanks!