Stop the mandate of ethanol in our fuel

[HB Vic]

E15 is not good for most boats. There is an initiative to force congress to stop this mandate. More info here:

Spend three minutes to save recreational boating from the dangers of E15 and end the ethanol mandate. Your action will go a long way in getting Congress to stop E15 from becoming a reality and ending the threat this fuel poses to recreational boating and marine engines.
Without Congressional action, the ethanol mandate and E15 could continue to be implemented nationwide without objection. You have the potential to stop that from happening!

An anti-ethanol movement is already well underway in Washington, receiving bipartisan support; but in order to truly stop the ethanol mandate, we need more members of Congress to stand with us. Your action today will help us achieve that goal.


http://boatingunited.com/app/write-a-letter?6&engagementId=47521&lp=0

[havaduner]

Link???

[HB Vic]

Link???

Updated link without my personal info this time LOL

[Brian]

done..

[Paul65K]

Done...

[Eli]

That was super easy! Done!


Sent from my Bat Cave

[havaduner]

Thanks! Done!

[Nordic Bear]

Done,, sent!!! :0)...

[riverrunner1984]

Submitted mine!

[Ricks raft]

Done!!!!

[KAP]

Wrote a reply and submitted.

[3queens]

done

even sent a copy of link and a short message to my State Senator
that started his career in my hood

[riverrunner1984]

Anyone else get this today after signing the petition?

Dear Brian :

I received your letter expressing your concerns about the Renewable Fuel Standard. Your correspondence is important to me, and I welcome this opportunity to respond.

The Renewable Fuel Standard (RFS) requires that the volume of renewable fuel increase every year from 9 billion gallons in 2008 to 36 billion gallons in 2022. Each year, the RFS requires that an increasing portion of renewable fuels be low carbon "advanced biofuels," which have lifecycle greenhouse gas emissions that are significantly lower than gasoline. However, the RFS does not include any mandate for E-15.

I do not support a mandate for the use of corn ethanol. On December 12, 2013, I introduced the "Corn Ethanol Mandate Elimination Act of 2013" (S. 1807), which would eliminate the corn ethanol mandate within the RFS. Under this mandate, almost 44 percent of U.S. corn is diverted from food to fuel, increasing the cost of food and animal feed. I strongly support greater use of low carbon fuels, like biodiesel, E-85 made with cellulosic ethanol, hydrogen, and electricity, and I share your concern that the RFS is not bringing about this shift to cleaner fuel.

Please know that I appreciate hearing your thoughts on the economic impact of corn ethanol and the RFS, and I will keep your thoughts in mind as I work to enact the "Corn Ethanol Mandate Elimination Act of 2013."


Again, thank you for taking the time to write. If you have any additional questions or comments, please feel free to contact my Washington, D.C. office at (202) 224-3841, or visit my website at http://feinstein.senate.gov . Best regards.

Also, may I take this opportunity to wish you a happy and healthy holiday season.

Sincerely yours,


Dianne Feinstein
United States Senator

[Eli]

Anyone else get this today after signing the petition?

Dear Brian :

I received your letter expressing your concerns about the Renewable Fuel Standard. Your correspondence is important to me, and I welcome this opportunity to respond.

The Renewable Fuel Standard (RFS) requires that the volume of renewable fuel increase every year from 9 billion gallons in 2008 to 36 billion gallons in 2022. Each year, the RFS requires that an increasing portion of renewable fuels be low carbon "advanced biofuels," which have lifecycle greenhouse gas emissions that are significantly lower than gasoline. However, the RFS does not include any mandate for E-15.

I do not support a mandate for the use of corn ethanol. On December 12, 2013, I introduced the "Corn Ethanol Mandate Elimination Act of 2013" (S. 1807), which would eliminate the corn ethanol mandate within the RFS. Under this mandate, almost 44 percent of U.S. corn is diverted from food to fuel, increasing the cost of food and animal feed. I strongly support greater use of low carbon fuels, like biodiesel, E-85 made with cellulosic ethanol, hydrogen, and electricity, and I share your concern that the RFS is not bringing about this shift to cleaner fuel.

Please know that I appreciate hearing your thoughts on the economic impact of corn ethanol and the RFS, and I will keep your thoughts in mind as I work to enact the "Corn Ethanol Mandate Elimination Act of 2013."


Again, thank you for taking the time to write. If you have any additional questions or comments, please feel free to contact my Washington, D.C. office at (202) 224-3841, or visit my website at http://feinstein.senate.gov . Best regards.

Also, may I take this opportunity to wish you a happy and healthy holiday season.

Sincerely yours,


Dianne Feinstein
United States Senator

Yes I did


Sent from my Bat Cave

[Brian]

Yep. I did too. Your name must be Brian too. For a second there I thought you hacked my email.

[2manymustangs]

Here is my 2 cents folks...

Here in the Midwest it is common and has been for a long while to have E-10 (10% alcohol) in our gasoline.

As you may or may not know, virtually every state in the union has their own recipe/standards for gasoline and there are ALOT of things added to the gasoline.

Previously the chemical "Methyl tertiary butyl ether (MTBE)" was added as an oxidizer and was used seasonally for winter/summer blends. This stuff was added without a lot of research and since it was part of the recipe the supply/demand on this stuff became a major factor in gasoline prices.

After a lot of research started pointing to the toxic aspects of MTBE and even the substance being considered carcinogenic some states started banning MTBE and switched to alcohol in the state approved recipe using the alcohol as an oxidizer. It wasn’t heavily advertised here in Missouri but the negative aspects of MTBE was pushed pretty hard in the news. Our fuel pumps say "a minimum of 10% ethanol" or something of that nature with regard to the blends and alcohol content.

This is a very very heavily political issue and there are so many lobbyists with their fingers in the mix, from Monsanto (chemical and seed supplier), CGB grain haulers, ADM agri products, environmentalists, anti-oil drillers, PRO oil drillers, Sierra club, auto manufacturers. You name it, this whole alcohol / "renewable fuel" thing is being batted around like a bad mitten birdy from every direction. IF .0001% of the funds spend in D.C. on this topic were spent on common sense approach to stuff like cellulose alcohol, cellulose-agri diesel, synthetic diesel AND having one standard prevailing federal gasoline recipe and let capitalism work this whole discussion would evaporate like spilled gasoline on hot concrete... :)

There are lots of factors at play on this subject.

I am neither PRO or against federally mandated anything in our gasoline. I just know enough to get sick when I hear the enviroWHACK jobs start touting the positive merits of yet another federal mandate. Just like they did when they were pushing for the use of MTBE back one decade ago... MANY MANY studies show that producing corn for alcohol creates more pollution / contamination of soil & ground water than any positive attributes of putting it in the gasoline in the first place, WHO are you going to believe??? :)

:) DISCLAIMER, this is not a political statement :) just a public service announcement...

Show me a fisherman / outdoorsman that doesn’t want clean water and healthy animals to eat/hunt/catch and I will show you a fisherman / outdoorsman that isn’t really what he claims to be. :)

Sorry Vic / mods if this comes across as a political statement, I didnt mean for it to come across that way. I just wanted to point out some background on the topic. You have my full support to delete this post if it comes across as a political statement.

[havaduner]

Didn't get the letter, can't believe there may be something ol' Dianne and I agree on, if I was to believe her letter. 2MM, good post, and I agree that it takes more energy to grow the corn that it produces, but curious about the statement of contamination of ground water and soil and where it came from? Not disagreeing with that statement, more like if that is the case, it should be something to be pointed out loudly as another reason why we should reduce corn based ethanol in fuels.

[riverrunner1984]

Here is my 2 cents folks...

Here in the Midwest it is common and has been for a long while to have E-10 (10% alcohol) in our gasoline.

As you may or may not know, virtually every state in the union has their own recipe/standards for gasoline and there are ALOT of things added to the gasoline.

Previously the chemical "Methyl tertiary butyl ether (MTBE)" was added as an oxidizer and was used seasonally for winter/summer blends. This stuff was added without a lot of research and since it was part of the recipe the supply/demand on this stuff became a major factor in gasoline prices.

After a lot of research started pointing to the toxic aspects of MTBE and even the substance being considered carcinogenic some states started banning MTBE and switched to alcohol in the state approved recipe using the alcohol as an oxidizer. It wasn’t heavily advertised here in Missouri but the negative aspects of MTBE was pushed pretty hard in the news. Our fuel pumps say "a minimum of 10% ethanol" or something of that nature with regard to the blends and alcohol content.

This is a very very heavily political issue and there are so many lobbyists with their fingers in the mix, from Monsanto (chemical and seed supplier), CGB grain haulers, ADM agri products, environmentalists, anti-oil drillers, PRO oil drillers, Sierra club, auto manufacturers. You name it, this whole alcohol / "renewable fuel" thing is being batted around like a bad mitten birdy from every direction. IF .0001% of the funds spend in D.C. on this topic were spent on common sense approach to stuff like cellulose alcohol, cellulose-agri diesel, synthetic diesel AND having one standard prevailing federal gasoline recipe and let capitalism work this whole discussion would evaporate like spilled gasoline on hot concrete... :)

There are lots of factors at play on this subject.

I am neither PRO or against federally mandated anything in our gasoline. I just know enough to get sick when I hear the enviroWHACK jobs start touting the positive merits of yet another federal mandate. Just like they did when they were pushing for the use of MTBE back one decade ago... MANY MANY studies show that producing corn for alcohol creates more pollution / contamination of soil & ground water than any positive attributes of putting it in the gasoline in the first place, WHO are you going to believe??? :)

:) DISCLAIMER, this is not a political statement :) just a public service announcement...

Show me a fisherman / outdoorsman that doesn’t want clean water and healthy animals to eat/hunt/catch and I will show you a fisherman / outdoorsman that isn’t really what he claims to be. :)

Sorry Vic / mods if this comes across as a political statement, I didnt mean for it to come across that way. I just wanted to point out some background on the topic. You have my full support to delete this post if it comes across as a political statement.

:thumbup: Great post!!!

I didnt see anything political i the post....What stood out to me was FISHING!!! lol

[Eli]

Here is my 2 cents folks...

Here in the Midwest it is common and has been for a long while to have E-10 (10% alcohol) in our gasoline.

As you may or may not know, virtually every state in the union has their own recipe/standards for gasoline and there are ALOT of things added to the gasoline.

Previously the chemical "Methyl tertiary butyl ether (MTBE)" was added as an oxidizer and was used seasonally for winter/summer blends. This stuff was added without a lot of research and since it was part of the recipe the supply/demand on this stuff became a major factor in gasoline prices.

After a lot of research started pointing to the toxic aspects of MTBE and even the substance being considered carcinogenic some states started banning MTBE and switched to alcohol in the state approved recipe using the alcohol as an oxidizer. It wasn’t heavily advertised here in Missouri but the negative aspects of MTBE was pushed pretty hard in the news. Our fuel pumps say "a minimum of 10% ethanol" or something of that nature with regard to the blends and alcohol content.

This is a very very heavily political issue and there are so many lobbyists with their fingers in the mix, from Monsanto (chemical and seed supplier), CGB grain haulers, ADM agri products, environmentalists, anti-oil drillers, PRO oil drillers, Sierra club, auto manufacturers. You name it, this whole alcohol / "renewable fuel" thing is being batted around like a bad mitten birdy from every direction. IF .0001% of the funds spend in D.C. on this topic were spent on common sense approach to stuff like cellulose alcohol, cellulose-agri diesel, synthetic diesel AND having one standard prevailing federal gasoline recipe and let capitalism work this whole discussion would evaporate like spilled gasoline on hot concrete... :)

There are lots of factors at play on this subject.

I am neither PRO or against federally mandated anything in our gasoline. I just know enough to get sick when I hear the enviroWHACK jobs start touting the positive merits of yet another federal mandate. Just like they did when they were pushing for the use of MTBE back one decade ago... MANY MANY studies show that producing corn for alcohol creates more pollution / contamination of soil & ground water than any positive attributes of putting it in the gasoline in the first place, WHO are you going to believe??? :)

:) DISCLAIMER, this is not a political statement :) just a public service announcement...

Show me a fisherman / outdoorsman that doesn’t want clean water and healthy animals to eat/hunt/catch and I will show you a fisherman / outdoorsman that isn’t really what he claims to be. :)

Sorry Vic / mods if this comes across as a political statement, I didnt mean for it to come across that way. I just wanted to point out some background on the topic. You have my full support to delete this post if it comes across as a political statement.

Very informative. While I'm not a fisher I like my fish toxic free so I can relate ;)



Disclaimer: as toxic free as possible


Sent from my Bat Cave

[2manymustangs]

Didn't get the letter, can't believe there may be something ol' Dianne and I agree on, if I was to believe her letter. 2MM, good post, and I agree that it takes more energy to grow the corn that it produces, but curious about the statement of contamination of ground water and soil and where it came from? Not disagreeing with that statement, more like if that is the case, it should be something to be pointed out loudly as another reason why we should reduce corn based ethanol in fuels.


I don’t know anyone smart enough to quantify the idea/theory that growing corn creates more contamination than it prevents through (cleaner burning) ethanol production. HOWEVER when you factor in the fertilizers / pesticides / herbicides and the solid particulates from the diesel tractors/cultivators/sprayers/combines/hauling to market/storing/drying (in some cases)/transport to the distilleries (sp). I think that all of these steps are where the argument comes in about corn based fuel creating more contamination than it prevents. Seed stock has to be grown, harvested, cleaned, stored, bagged, transported, climate controlled for seasons, transported again, planted. :)

I don't know how you would quantify all of the above but there are MANY MANY steps that take place to produce one gallon of ethanol. Quite honestly at the price per bushel for corn from your local co-op, IMHO I think it should be double or triple the price if the gubment stayed out of the process and let the farmers do their thing on the free market.

Cellulose ethanol is where it is at IMHO, switch grass, it is native to this country / soils and grows fast without depleting the soil. Its a perennial weed... BUT the big energy concerns and the likes of ADM have the enzymes to make it viable totally tied up and buried so it won’t see the light of day for decades and we need this stuff working NOW...

I am ALL for the American farmer / American farm family (minus gubment)...

[SnoC653]

Anyone else get this today after signing the petition?

Dear Brian :

I received your letter expressing your concerns about the Renewable Fuel Standard. Your correspondence is important to me, and I welcome this opportunity to respond.

The Renewable Fuel Standard (RFS) requires that the volume of renewable fuel increase every year from 9 billion gallons in 2008 to 36 billion gallons in 2022. Each year, the RFS requires that an increasing portion of renewable fuels be low carbon "advanced biofuels," which have lifecycle greenhouse gas emissions that are significantly lower than gasoline. However, the RFS does not include any mandate for E-15.

I do not support a mandate for the use of corn ethanol. On December 12, 2013, I introduced the "Corn Ethanol Mandate Elimination Act of 2013" (S. 1807), which would eliminate the corn ethanol mandate within the RFS. Under this mandate, almost 44 percent of U.S. corn is diverted from food to fuel, increasing the cost of food and animal feed. I strongly support greater use of low carbon fuels, like biodiesel, E-85 made with cellulosic ethanol, hydrogen, and electricity, and I share your concern that the RFS is not bringing about this shift to cleaner fuel.

Please know that I appreciate hearing your thoughts on the economic impact of corn ethanol and the RFS, and I will keep your thoughts in mind as I work to enact the "Corn Ethanol Mandate Elimination Act of 2013."


Again, thank you for taking the time to write. If you have any additional questions or comments, please feel free to contact my Washington, D.C. office at (202) 224-3841, or visit my website at http://feinstein.senate.gov . Best regards.

Also, may I take this opportunity to wish you a happy and healthy holiday season.

Sincerely yours,


Dianne Feinstein
United States Senator

There is a problem with her numbers. While 41% of the 2012 corn crop was sent to ethanol plants only 28% or so is consumed by the process. The other 13% is returned to the market in such things as cattle feed. Also 2012 was a drought year, so the corn production was at a low. In a regular year, the percentage is much lower as ethanol's use of corn is a constant which doesn't fluctuate with yield.

While I don't support the bill this thread discussed, I do agree with Bruce that gov't regulation can and should be minimized. The only thing their regulations do is make someone rich. And it's never us.

I do believe in truth in facts.
Edit: The facts I discussed can be found in this article: http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/08/08/column-wynn-ethanol-corn-idUSL6E8J65JU20120808

[2manymustangs]

There is a problem with her numbers. While 41% of the 2012 corn crop was sent to ethanol plants only 28% or so is consumed by the process. The other 13% is returned to the market in such things as cattle feed. Also 2012 was a drought year, so the corn production was at a low. In a regular year, the percentage is much lower as ethanol's use of corn is a constant which doesn't fluctuate with yield.

While I don't support the bill this thread discussed, I do agree with Bruce that gov't regulation can and should be minimized. The only thing their regulations do is make someone rich. And it's never us.

I do believe in truth in facts.
Edit: The facts I discussed can be found in this article: http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/08/08/column-wynn-ethanol-corn-idUSL6E8J65JU20120808

^^^ from our resident Iowa Corn Advocate... ;) kidding...

Just like any industry there are areas/suppliers/producers that can produce corn in a more efficient way than other parts of the country. Iowa happens to be an ideal location/situation for AG productions due to a variety of factors, just like Kansas and wheat or Nebraska and corn or Illinois and soy beans.

China can produce the hell out of cheap steel / iron / aluminum but they take short cuts and don't give a crap about the environment OR fair trade.

The U.S. has loads of marginal / hilly ground being farmed and in production that really shouldn't. Our buddy Forkin Crazy down on the Mississippi has some great bench soil and unlimited water, that is ideal for corn/bean/cotton/grain production AND there is alot of that type of land in this country (river bottom land).

Some areas are harder to farm and require more fertilizer / pest control / cultivation. Some areas are more prone to run off and siltation of the watershed.

Iowa is ideal and some Missouri hill ground, not so much.

Missouri used to be the largest producer of HEMP in the nation back in the hemp rope / hemp fiber days... It really grows great here, lets bring it back (gubment effed that all up)... :) We also used to be a HUGE producer of tomatos and there were many canneries for the tomatos, now it is NILL/gone...

You can grow a palm tree in North Dakota but it will do MUCH better in SoCal or FLA... <<< :)


^^^ ALL of this to say that there are MANY factors and MANY political pressures effecting all of this ethanol discussion.

[riverrunner1984]

There is a problem with her numbers. While 41% of the 2012 corn crop was sent to ethanol plants only 28% or so is consumed by the process. The other 13% is returned to the market in such things as cattle feed. Also 2012 was a drought year, so the corn production was at a low. In a regular year, the percentage is much lower as ethanol's use of corn is a constant which doesn't fluctuate with yield.

While I don't support the bill this thread discussed, I do agree with Bruce that gov't regulation can and should be minimized. The only thing their regulations do is make someone rich. And it's never us.

I do believe in truth in facts.
Edit: The facts I discussed can be found in this article: http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/08/08/column-wynn-ethanol-corn-idUSL6E8J65JU20120808

In my opinion, I have a problem with probably 99% of what she (Feinstein) says....Just saying....:biggrin:

I think Hotboat, is eyeballing the heck out of this thread now to see where it goes lol

[2manymustangs]

In my opinion, I have a problem with probably 99% of what she (Feinstein) says....Just saying....:biggrin:

I think Hotboat, is eyeballing the heck out of this thread now to see where it goes lol

Back to the original point of the letter, I really don't know how harmful the ethanol is OR if it is any worse for your plastic/rubber/aluminum fuel system components than the alternative OXIDIZERs that have been used/tested.

I have been running 10% for several hundred thousand miles in my hoopties and my truck has the original fuel pump/system @100K plus miles (not flex fuel design). My 1989 mustang with mass air has the original fuel rails/fuel lines/regulator/soft return lines and is on it's second fuel pump @ 300K plus miles. In the 89 mustang I have worn out 1 1/2 5.0 engines and I'm working on my third AOD but it has the original injectors and pressure regulator (at 300k miles).

I had a 300K 4.6 mod motor town car, a 200k 4.6mod motor town car and a 180k 4.0 explorer sport track, all with original injectors/regulators/fuel pumps/sending units... Most of those miles were logged on 10% ethanol gasoline... Whatever that is worth... :D

42247

[steveo143]

4 of my boats engines are built to run on E-85. Love the stuff!!!!!!! There are many base stocks that could easily replace corn. Mesquite is not much more than a weed growing in the desserts that, requires little water and can produce twice as much ethanol per ton with little water and no chemicals.

[gn7]

Hard to believe all this whining over 6.5 ounces of Everclear added to a gallon of gasoline.

[ChumpChange]

42247

It that thing was a hatchback I'd be making you an offer. Lowball but offer nonetheless. :D

[Eli]

Hard to believe all this whining over 6.5 ounces of Everclear added to a gallon of gasoline.

When you think of it as 1/2 a serving of beer or 1 serving of wine...it's not all that much ;) let's not refer to it in Tequila terms...that's hangover material right there :D


Sent from my Bat Cave

[SnoC653]

4 of my boats engines are built to run on E-85. Love the stuff!!!!!!! There are many base stocks that could easily replace corn. Mesquite is not much more than a weed growing in the desserts that, requires little water and can produce twice as much ethanol per ton with little water and no chemicals.

Yep, everything from milkweed to mesquite will make ethanol. Corn just had bigger corporations backing it and the start up technology was easier.