The men who built America

[HB Vic]

Does greed breed innovation?

I'll get back to that in a minute.

I honestly hope we can keep politics out of this thread. I realize this entire period of the growth of our Nation was almost entirely political, but that's not why I posted this tread.

Innovation is why I posted this. And believe it or not, this thread and this series is somewhat related to boating. A bit of a stretch maybe, but one of the main reasons why the internal combustion engine was designed was greed. Or was it innovation?? You be the judge.

Most of us have read about these guys a long time ago. Whats a shame is, imo, we learned about them when we were too young for us to really understand what was going on. So its always nice to read and see what these guys were up to when you actually have had enough life experience for it to sink in....a little.


I've watched a little of this and I'm recording the rest. Fascinating stuff to me. Check it out.


http://www.history.com/shows/men-who-built-america

[McRib]

I watched it when it came out last year. It was on on Sunday again but modified with extra tidbit factoids on the bottom. As I was watching the jp Morgan episode I realized he was never really in the history books of my school district. I had no idea how important he was. I seriously don't remember learning about him in school. Everyone else showcased in the series I remember 100%

[gn7]

Greed has NOTHING to do with it. The most creative minds in history, specially in this country, did what they did because they seriously, could not help it. It was a burning desire to do what they did. Every successful company has a driven person that DROVE the company. Apple, Microsoft, Ford, Westinghouse, Bell, Standard Oil, U.S. Steel.

The MEN that built America are really simple. Andrew Carnegie, Thomas Edison, Westinghouse, and Henry Ford, and Rockerfeller had by far the biggest impact. Edison died near broke, Carnegie gave almost all of it away, Rockerfeller gave away more than any man in history. Few know he bought most the land that makes up most national parks, and gave it to the federal government. Ford gave the company to a foundation that is still one of the largest foundation in the world. Westinghouse died near broke, but JP Morgan broke him.
Gates has given away and will continue to give away, more than he takes in. He is becoming worth less everyday. His and Buffets wills are written, and the kids get much less than you can imagine. You can win more in the Power Ball easily.

The richer they get, the less it had to do with greed.

NOW, financial people. Don't get me started. Its ALL GREED, and it has been all thru history. They make nothing, and contribute nothing.

The richest most successful people in history, all did it WITHOUT BANKS! JP Morgan was a pariah on the American pubic. But that would open the door to politics, so we won't go there.

Funny, you can talk industrial giants, and their contribution to the growth and power of the nation, and never mention politics. Try that when talking about bankers and empires built on financials.

[McRib]

Jp Morgan albeit a banker. Bought carnigie for 480 mil and formed us steel. He was also the money behind Edison and was responsible for electrifying America. When they lost Niagara to Westinghouse and tesla Morgan bought controlling interest in Edison electric and formed GE. Carnegie became a philanthropist and gave away most of his fortune building things with his namesake. Morgan was a smart mother effer and Edison died broke cause Morgan left him with nothing.

They were all greedy and used dirty politics to continue earning the way they did. Then came teddy and beat up rockefeller. To bad it was at the end and rockefeller had already dominated

[gn7]

Jp Morgan albeit a banker. Bought carnigie for 480 mil and formed us steel. He was also the money behind Edison and was responsible for electrifying America. When they lost Niagara to Westinghouse and tesla Morgan bought controlling interest in Edison electric and formed GE. Carnegie became a philanthropist and gave away most of his fortune building things with his namesake. Morgan was a smart mother effer and Edison died broke cause Morgan left him with nothing.

They were all greedy and used dirty politics to continue earning the way they did. Then came teddy and beat up rockefeller. To bad it was at the end and rockefeller had already dominated

He BROKE Edison, and he BROKE Westinghouse.

Dirty tactics is not greed for money, its greed for share.
Henry Ford could have sold cars for a LITTLE less than GM, he sold cars for less than HALF. Its not the money, its the GAME. Its EGO driven, not money driven.
Bankers are in it for Money. It is what financials are, MONEY!

Car manufactures, and steel, oil, software, etc are things, and the more make and move is number uno. Not just the money. It comes from moving the most product, and making and moving the most is the prime mover.

Carnegie sold out and GAVE JP Morgans money away. JP Morgan bought it for the same reason he crushed Edison and Westinghouse. GREED.
Look at every founding industrialist, and you see a passion for what they were doing. JP Morgan had zero passion for electricity, or inventing, or creating anything but wealth. He could barely spell electricity let alone explain it.
You can't name me a single successful industry that the founder didn't do it because of the passion for what he was doing. That they went into it for the shear profit, and that was THE ONLY motivation.
Then tell me WHY people go into financials, and tell me MONEY is not the primary goal. ITS THE ONLY GOAL., there nothing else. It is the BUSINESS of financials. You can make 10 million cars and be a major success and make ZERO money at it. YOU CANNOT SAY THE SAME ABOUT FINANCIALS. If you didn't make any money, then you didn't make anything. At least the car manufacture built 10 million cars with his name on them.

[McRib]

We wouldn't be the country we are without their greed. The end of their era ended and America was the industrial leader and new laws went into effect to prevent their kind of greed which brought in the roaring 20s. Then the crash happened cause the market caught up with itself. W old America be what it is without these guys and their greed masked by actual vision? They had their cake and they ate it. I'm money drivin and I'm happiest when I have an abundance of it. I'm greedy but I also have ethics. I'd love to be a branch of one of their family trees. Edisons ego got him crushed and Westinghouse was weak.

[ChumpChange]

NOW, financial people. Don't get me started. Its ALL GREED, and it has been all thru history. They make nothing, and contribute nothing.

Glad we got that out in the open. Looks like I have nothing to add here. :D

[HB Vic]

Glad we got that out in the open. Looks like I have nothing to add here. :D

I guess if you have enough dough to buy your cars, homes, and pay for your business ventures in cash, more power to you :D

[gn7]

I guess if you have enough dough to buy your cars, homes, and pay for your business ventures in cash, more power to you :D

I guess. Henry Ford built the Ford Motor Company without borrowing a dime from a bank. He went from a garage to the River Rouge plant, the largest manufacturing plant in the world at the time, and produced 1000 cars a day, within 20 years, with out banks. Banks were never in a position to take it, like Edison and Westinghouse.

Homes can be a different story, I didn't buy my house, I rented it from the bank on a rent to own basis. Everybody does. Second homes are a different story, But you are going to rent something anyway, might as well rent to own.
Cars and boats. I learned long ago I can pay for a car quicker and faster, cheaper by making payments to a bank account, then to a bank loan. When the car is "paid off", I go buy it. Right now I am paying off a 2015 Mustang. I'll let you know how that works out when they arrive,

[ChumpChange]

I guess if you have enough dough to buy your cars, homes, and pay for your business ventures in cash, more power to you :D

I would but hookers and blow don't provide financing options.

[gn7]

I would but hookers and blow don't provide financing options.

You need to get hooked up. You can get both with a EBT card. Then its government subsidized.

[WESTERNAERO]

You need to get hooked up. You can get both with a EBT card. Then its government subsidized.

No shit!! :lmao

[Slowride]

The whole time I watched that series it kept coming back to me that there is no way this country would have prospered and become what it had (until the past couple decades) without these types of men, the lack of govt regulation, and the ruthlessness.
Makes me proud to be an American.

[HB Vic]

The whole time I watched that series it kept coming back to me that there is no way this country would have prospered and become what it had (until the past couple decades) without these types of men, the lack of govt regulation, and the ruthlessness.
Makes me proud to be an American.

It was the wild wild West of the industrial revolution era.

[gn7]

It was the wild wild West of the industrial revolution era.

Hands down the best description ever said regarding the U.S. from where was as the largest producer and lender, the largest consumer and borrower.
The strong survive, and the weak get driven over. As it should be.


If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it.
Ronald Reagan

[The Doctor]

What is the American Dream?

My father was a bricklayer and I went on the payroll of the company he worked for at the age of 11. I started my own masonry company at the age of twenty because I wanted to be more than a bricklayer. In so doing, my company supported a large number of other breadwinners and I felt a sense of responsibility to them. I later went into land sales because I wanted to raise my children myself and the masonry business afforded little time to be with them.

I have always wanted to have and be more than my predecessors, financially speaking, because I was taught there was a lot more room at the top than fighting it out in the blue collar workplace. If that's greed - then so be it.
As anyone at the top will tell you, it's never "enough" (Bill Gates just went to the top again yesterday, according to Forbes) and success, as the world calls it, is almost always shared with employees and service providers who directly benefit from these efforts. I'll call it free enterprise - epitomized. Call it greed if you want.

[HB Vic]

What is the American Dream?

My father was a bricklayer and I went on the payroll of the company he worked for at the age of 11. I started my own masonry company at the age of twenty because I wanted to be more than a bricklayer. In so doing, my company supported a large number of other breadwinners and I felt a sense of responsibility to them. I later went into land sales because I wanted to raise my children myself and the masonry business afforded little time to be with them.

I have always wanted to have and be more than my predecessors, financially speaking, because I was taught there was a lot more room at the top than fighting it out in the blue collar workplace. If that's greed - then so be it.
As anyone at the top will tell you, it's never "enough" (Bill Gates just went to the top again yesterday, according to Forbes) and success, as the world calls it, is almost always shared with employees and service providers who directly benefit from these efforts. I'll call it free enterprise - epitomized. Call it greed if you want.

11? wow. I was just talking to someone yesterday about starting work when I was 13. Been working ever since. But 11? holy cow :D

[The Doctor]

11? wow. I was just talking to someone yesterday about starting work when I was 13. Been working ever since. But 11? holy cow :D

I went to work with my dad most Saturdays and all summer before that but I was told I could go on the payroll with my first hourly wage ($1. per hour) when I could push a full wheelbarrow of scrap block up on to a flatbed truck and dump it without spilling. Sounds like cheap labor but my friends all had paper routes and they made around $15-18 bucks a week. I got fifty every week so I thought I was really something. I wasn't then nor have been since but at least I thought it when it mattered in life.

[Cigalert]

There's also ego.

I see nothing wrong with a little ego. If you've done something with some level of success there's nothing wrong with ego...you're making safe decisions because you can see the end result...why? Because of your ego.

However, ego drives just fine but doesn't steer for shit.

[HB Vic]

There's also ego.

I see nothing wrong with a little ego. If you've done something with some level of success there's nothing wrong with ego...you're making safe decisions because you can see the end result...why? Because of your ego.

However, ego drives just fine but doesn't steer for shit.

When you're drag racing, you don't need to steer :D

[ChumpChange]

There's also ego.

That's what made me successful. If there weren't constantly stack ranking reports comparing me to others, I would have a pretty comfy job.

[Cigalert]

When you're drag racing, you don't need to steer :D

What do you when you run out of track?


That's what made me successful. If there weren't constantly stack ranking reports comparing me to others, I would have a pretty comfy job.

That made me think of comparison also. I know I do it all the time...and I know it's not good etiquette to compare but without comparison, how do you know you're doing ok?

BTW, shit just went sideways last Friday. Give me a ring tomorrow if you have a chance.

[ChumpChange]

...and I know it's not good etiquette to compare but without comparison, how do you know you're doing ok?

Ask your wife! :D



BTW, shit just went sideways last Friday. Give me a ring tomorrow if you have a chance.

I'll be around. You might need to call me. I'm all over the place with a couple files. Slammed and forgetful.

[Cigalert]

Ask your wife! :D



I'll be around. You might need to call me. I'm all over the place with a couple files. Slammed and forgetful.

I did ask her and she asked what I was doing in her house.

Ok...I'll call you but if you don't answer I'll be in the same boat.

[The Doctor]

When you're drag racing, you don't need to steer :D

Let me guess, you've never driven a pro-mod, funny car or an altered roadster? :D

[HB Vic]

Let me guess, you've never driven a pro-mod, funny car or an altered roadster? :D

Actually no I haven't, but it was more a figure of speech. But don't they use brakes to steer because the wheels are off the ground anyway? :D


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[The Doctor]

Actually no I haven't, but it was more a figure of speech. But don't they use brakes to steer because the wheels are off the ground anyway? :D


Sand cars do but not real drag cars. The show-stopping wheel-standers use such brakes but you won't see individual-side brakes on any big-time drag car. My sons drive our funny cars and there is no steering for the first few hundred feet. You must set the car up and balance the roll-out of the rear tires then aim it perfectly in the beams if you want to be in your own lane when the front tires set down and let you start steering. During the run however, there's lots of steering done, trust me! Here's one of our cars with Buzzz "Wannabe" driving.


http://www.wannaberacing.com/smiller.jpg

[Stainless]

Sand cars do but not real drag cars. The show-stopping wheel-standers use such brakes but you won't see individual-side brakes on any big-time drag car. My sons drive our funny cars and there is no steering for the first few hundred feet. You must set the car up and balance the roll-out of the rear tires then aim it perfectly in the beams if you want to be in your own lane when the front tires set down and let you start steering. During the run however, there's lots of steering done, trust me! Here's one of our cars with Buzzz "Wannabe" driving.


http://www.wannaberacing.com/smiller.jpg

Hey Doc, did you guys race last weekend at Wildhorse, Div 7 I think it's called? Nice looking car, is it TAFC?


CH3NO2

[The Doctor]

No we didn't. We haven't made a pass since Obama took office. We still have cars and engines but our businesses all fell completely off cliffs the day he was elected. Maybe some day soon.
When we did race, we ran CIFCA (California Independent Funny Car Association) all over the Western US. Great group and it was an affordable platform when they ran the 7.50 et index. When they decided to run faster, into the sixes, everybody blew their crap up and the circuit died shortly thereafter.

[Bobby V]

No we didn't. We haven't made a pass since Obama took office. We still have cars and engines but our businesses all fell completely off cliffs the day he was elected. Maybe some day soon.
When we did race, we ran CIFCA (California Independent Funny Car Association) all over the Western US. Great group and it was an affordable platform when they ran the 7.50 et index. When they decided to run faster, into the sixes, everybody blew their crap up and the circuit died shortly thereafter.

So much for keeping politics out of this thread. :rulez:

[ChumpChange]

[/COLOR]

So much for keeping politics out of this thread. :rulez:

Correct. He should have said "haven't made a pass since January 20, 2009". :D

Land sales sucked long before that date though........ At the same time, things have really picked up out here and other places I drove the last couple of weeks. What's going on out there? Just eating up existing land inventory? Nothing changing hands?

[The Doctor]

[/COLOR]

So much for keeping politics out of this thread. :rulez:

You're right. Let me reword it. We haven't loaded a race car in our trailer since November of 2008 when sheep outnumbered our productive class and businesses like mine all over America began struggling or failing in record numbers thanks to people like our beloved Bobby Valentine! This way we'll keep politics out of it and just keep it in our forum family. :D

[Bobby V]

You're right. Let me reword it. We haven't loaded a race car in our trailer since November of 2008 when sheep outnumbered our productive class and businesses like mine all over America began struggling or failing in record numbers thanks to people like our beloved Bobby Valentine! This way we'll keep politics out of it and just keep it in our forum family. :D

Actually Bobby Miller if you were keeping track of the economy you would have know that it started to die well before 2008. :wink: I know my company seen it coming.