Question about Mercury Racing motors?

[GRADS]

Why do they have 5 motors all within 80 H.P. of each other? Now they have the 520, 525, 540, 565 and the 600.

http://www.mercuryracing.com/sterndrives/

33301

33302

33303

33304

33305

[riverrunner1984]

Which one are you putting in your new boat?

[2manymustangs]

Which one are you putting in your new boat?

Hopefully some of the BIGGGGGER offerings from Merc, and none of the ones Grads posted above... :)

[RogerThat99]

That doesn't seem to make much sense. I wonder what the price difference is between a 520 and a 600?

[chevellesb406]

I believe the 525 is being phased out in favor of the 540. But all the others, its just like eliminator having Daytona's at 25, 26, 27, 28, and 30. 25, 27, and 30 would make sense to me.

[Menace Marine]

525 is going away to be replaced by the 540. I admit it is strange to see all these very similar motors and then nothing in between the 700 and 1100. The 850 is still available I believe but only until they sell them all. Last I heard there were still a few left over. But I guess sales dictate production and the 500 to 700 hp market is huge and very competitive.


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[Tishimself]

525 is going away to be replaced by the 540. I admit it is strange to see all these very similar motors and then nothing in between the 700 and 1100. The 850 is still available I believe but only until they sell them all. Last I heard there were still a few left over. But I guess sales dictate production and the 500 to 700 hp market is huge and very competitive.


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Which makes me think you could get a swinging deal on a pair of 850's....

[Wizard 29]

Not sure what the 600 goes for but the 520 is $15k over the 502 and $15k less than the 525.

[CampbellCarl]

Not sure what the 600 goes for but the 520 is $15k over the 502 and $15k less than the 525.



So wait, the 520 to 525 step is $15K? $3K per pony sounds a tad bit high...

[Paul65K]

Not sure what the 600 goes for but the 520 is $15k over the 502 and $15k less than the 525.
I really don't know all the details but I have been told that the 520 will cost quite a bit more to rig as it is "Fly by wire" and the cost differential is much closer when this is taken into account.....anyone know what those numbers are??

[Sharp shooter]

These things are so over priced it's mind boggling. :thumbsdown

[WESTERNAERO]

these things are so over priced it's mind boggling. :thumbsdown

x's 2...........

[Slacker]

These things are so over priced it's mind boggling. :thumbsdown

Also agree to that

[Wizard 29]

So wait, the 520 to 525 step is $15K? $3K per pony sounds a tad bit high...


I really don't know all the details but I have been told that the 520 will cost quite a bit more to rig as it is "Fly by wire" and the cost differential is much closer when this is taken into account.....anyone know what those numbers are??

I was a Nordic today and that's the prices I was told. As for rigging if you choose the tds it is about $3000 more.

[GRADS]

These things are so over priced it's mind boggling. :thumbsdown


x's 2...........

They are trying to price out the jet boat crowd. ;)

[gn7]

525 is going away to be replaced by the 540. I admit it is strange to see all these very similar motors and then nothing in between the 700 and 1100. The 850 is still available I believe but only until they sell them all. Last I heard there were still a few left over. But I guess sales dictate production and the 500 to 700 hp market is huge and very competitive.


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They are trying to price out the jet boat crowd. ;)

There is more going on with the engines than just HP.
Look at the front accessory drive package alone on the engines that will be the "base" engines once 525 EFI as no more and the 520 and 540 are the lowest cost of the Merc Racing engines. YOU REALLY THINK THE ACCESSORY DRIVE PACKAGE IS THE ONLY THING DIFFERENT BETWEEN THEM????
I shutter even calling those 2 Merc RACING. More like Mercruser black motors.
The cost is nothing more than raping anybody that can't build an engine or rig a boat. If you can't afford it, you probably shouldn't be armed with it, and certainly don't need it. So if you feel you must have it, bend over and lube up.

[LuauLounge]

My guess...
It is all about financing....
If you were a bank, which option would you want?
Mercury Racing vs Bob's Engine and Fence Building Company

[Sharp shooter]

They are trying to price out the jet boat crowd. ;)

Lol!! Yeah, those jetboat guys are all broke. 334743347533476

[FormulaZR]

After reading the specs of all these engines, here's how I see it: the 525 and 565 are superfluous.

The 520 makes sense, and the 540 is a 520 with headers...so that makes sense as well. The 600 also makes sense for folks who really *want* a supercharger, and the extra power.

The 525 and 565 are not necessary. But even reading the Mercury site, they don't speak "well" of the 525 either.

The other thing is the 520, 540, and 565 (can't find specs for the 525) all have the same CR. The difference between the 540 and 565 is 10 CI (523 vs 533 cid) - although, the 540 is a large bore/shorter stroke than the 565, so if the 540 made the same specific horsepower as the 565, it'd be 555 hp. But, the 540 specifies 87 oct and the 565 specifies 89 oct; so I assume the 540 is slightly less aggressive on the timing.

[gn7]

I think the fuel requirement of the 565 is the result of dynamic compression brought on by 4.25 stroke verses the 4.00. I am thinking the corresponding valve timing to go along with stroke, creates more cranking pressure than the 540. (did you follow that grads?)

You can bet your ass there is a matching cam change and possibly a intake throttle body change on the 540 to along with the exhaust manifold change from the 520.

Its just what you see at work here.

[gn7]

My guess...
It is all about financing....
If you were a bank, which option would you want?
Mercury Racing vs Bob's Engine and Fence Building Company

I have already checked that out. I can drop an engine off at a boat builder and have no problem getting the boat financed. You think the banks know all about Pfaff, Teague, or GT.
Now buying an unrigged bare hull, that's another story. You'll need cash or a personal credit line.

[FormulaZR]

Lol!! Yeah, those jetboat guys are all broke. 33474

..................and - if either of those were jets, it would help make your point.

[FormulaZR]

I think the fuel requirement of the 565 is the result of dynamic compression brought on by 4.25 stroke verses the 4.00. I am thinking the corresponding valve timing to go along with stroke, creates more cranking pressure than the 540. (did you follow that grads?)

Good point, I forgot to consider that.


You can bet your ass there is a matching cam change and possibly a intake throttle body change on the 540 to along with the exhaust manifold change from the 520.

I wonder. On the outside looking in, it's sometime hard for me to understand why the Mercury engines are so expensive. On the website/sellsheet, there is very little information provided. I'd love to know the composition of the rotating assembly, cam, and intake/TB specs.

[GRADS]

:lmao....And showing that you spend more on your trailer than the two boats in it doesn't help either.

..................and - if either of those were jets, it would help make your point.

[FormulaZR]

:lmao....And showing that you spend more on your trailer than the two boats in it doesn't help either.

You I/O guys irritate me sometimes. But, in this case - you *might* have a point.

[gn7]

Good point, I forgot to consider that.



I wonder. On the outside looking in, it's sometime hard for me to understand why the Mercury engine are so expensive. On the website/sellsheet, there is very little information provided. I'd love to know the composition of the rotating assembly, cam, and intake/TB specs.

Its not Mercury as in Mercruiser that is so expensive, although even a black Mercruiser is way over priced. But the Merc "RACING" blue engines re-define rape.
The industry is not what it was. I saw it coming when Schuster started laying up Tahiti hulls as fast as the resin would set up and standing hulls on their transoms in the shop waiting for a customer to walk in. Choose your interior and engine and 4 days later you were on the water. 5500 out the door. 90% of them were crate Olds engines with a few Harman marine 427 or 454s with a oil pan change and some plumbing changes to make them work. The crate engines from GM were dirt cheap. And they sold a zillion of them to every person that wanted a boat but need instructions included when he bought a screwdriver. And it only got worse and worse.
You wanted to go 100 in 1968, you better know how to build a boat. Now, you need to know how to write a check.

I chuckle at the thought that Merc gets that kind of money for a warranty. That's all they are buying.
Once I learned what was being used in the 1350/1650 twin cam engine, it pretty much told you whats NOT in the 565 or 600, let alone the 520 and 540.

This is the crank in the 1350/1650. I assure you, its NOT a Sonny Bryant or Winberg.
I am almost certain it is a Lunati. Its most likely a "Pro" but Merc's replacement cost is $6000.00 A Lunati Pro crank is about 1700.00
A Sonny Bryant EN30B billet is less than 4000.00 LIST!! and nobody pays list!!
The rods are even worse, in that I'am pretty sure they are Lunati H beam IMPORT rods!!!
The pistons are 476 apiece, head gasket is 373 EA, and these are the "online discount" prices.

For 6000 this should look like jewelry.
33491


This is a Sonny Bryant billet.
ANY QUESTIONS?
33492

[Havasuing]

If you're thinking about installing a new 500+HP engine in a new boat (with a 2013 or 2014 HIN) your choices are extremely limited -- only three marine engine manufacturers currently have emission certified engines over 500 HP (Mercury, Ilmor and Teague). For the past couple of years other independent engine builders have continued to build and sell new 500+ HP engines in violation of EPA and CARB regulations on the 'down-low'. Up until recently, enforcement has been very minimal, but that is changing and small engine builders are beginning to be checked and when they are found in violation the fines are hefty, so much so that they would likely put them out of business. Don't think for a minute that Mercury Racing isn't getting a premium price for that certification. If you buy a new boat with a non-emissions certified new engine, the buyer is likely to have an issue/problem when it comes time to register the vessel (more states are beginning to crack down at time of registration). Unless the engine is specifically designated for racing/competition only, it better have the low-emissions certification sticker and paperwork to go with it.

[Sharp shooter]

..................and - if either of those were jets, it would help make your point.

If you read Grad's comments during the last circle boat race "live stream" you'd realize he doesn't know the difference....

[Sharp shooter]

:lmao....And showing that you spend more on your trailer than the two boats in it doesn't help either.

And what trailer would that be...?

[gn7]

If you're thinking about installing a new 500+HP engine in a new boat (with a 2013 or 2014 HIN) your choices are extremely limited -- only three marine engine manufacturers currently have emission certified engines over 500 HP (Mercury, Ilmor and Teague). For the past couple of years other independent engine builders have continued to build and sell new 500+ HP engines in violation of EPA and CARB regulations on the 'down-low'. Up until recently, enforcement has been very minimal, but that is changing and small engine builders are beginning to be checked and when they are found in violation the fines are hefty, so much so that they would likely put them out of business. Don't think for a minute that Mercury Racing isn't getting a premium price for that certification. If you buy a new boat with a non-emissions certified new engine, the buyer is likely to have an issue/problem when it comes time to register the vessel (more states are beginning to crack down at time of registration). Unless the engine is specifically designated for racing/competition only, it better have the low-emissions certification sticker and paperwork to go with it.
You do realize that ONLY applies to boats sold and registered in CALIF. and only applies to engine UNDER a certain power. It was originally under 500, it has been raised to under 600. You will notice the 600 and up Merc Racing ARE NOT EPA and CARB certified, because their is no certification for 600 and up engines. There are EPA standards that cover all 50 states, but they are weak compared to the CARB emission standards. Virtually any EFI engine can meet the EPA standards.
So Phaff, GT, and every other Tom Dick and Harry with a tool box can sell 600+ engines all he likes.
For the cost of a Merc 565, I can easily afford to buy 1000HP from damn near anybody else.

But for now, the EASIEST way around it is get out your own tool box and built it yourself. There NO LAW that states the boat has to meet any regs, only that the boat builders cannot sell boats with non certified engines. Says nothing about what I can build.

[Havasuing]

The EPA marine engine emission law (although somewhat less strict than CARB regulations) is now effective in all 50 states, and whether the engine is able to pass the test or not must still go through the prescribed testing protocol in order to receive certification (regardless of horsepower). California was ahead of the curve in passing marine emission laws by a couple of years, but EPA has now caught up. The Teague series of engines (825, 985/1025, 1200 and 1335 HP) are CARB certified as low-emisssion (3 star) engines and approved for California sale. The Mercury Racing and Ilmor high horsepower engines fall into a different catgeory ('large' manufacturers as opposed to a 'small' builder like a GT, Pfaff, etc.) They are using emission "credits" accrued from their production of lower horsepower engines to allow the sale of the high performance products. It's way more complicated than it probably needs to be, but John McKnight at NMMA has a good handle on this and of course you can always call CARB at the El Monte office and ask for Jeff Lowery or Kevin Curley for specific questions, both are quite helpful. And you are correct -- homebuilt engines are an entirely different matter and are still unrestricted.

[HB Vic]

Very good info 👍


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[gn7]

Very good info ��


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Truly GOOD info would a be a recommendation as the lube you should use , and whether you grab your angles or just your knee caps when which Merc Racing engine box on your engine options at the dealer. Every customer is entitled to dinner, and show before checking the box.

Why isn't this thread in the Tech forum instead of the sandbox? Oh, I remember.
At least ogshotgun should be happy. It is boat related.

[HB Vic]

Truly GOOD info would a be a recommendation as the lube you should use , and whether you grab your angles or just your knee caps when which Merc Racing engine box on your engine options at the dealer. Every customer is entitled to dinner, and show before checking the box.

Why isn't this thread in the Tech forum instead of the sandbox? Oh, I remember.
At least ogshotgun should be happy. It is boat related.

Good point, I'll move it


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[gn7]

The EPA marine engine emission law (although somewhat less strict than CARB regulations) is now effective in all 50 states, and whether the engine is able to pass the test or not must still go through the prescribed testing protocol in order to receive certification (regardless of horsepower). California was ahead of the curve in passing marine emission laws by a couple of years, but EPA has now caught up. The Teague series of engines (825, 985/1025, 1200 and 1335 HP) are CARB certified as low-emisssion (3 star) engines and approved for California sale. The Mercury Racing and Ilmor high horsepower engines fall into a different catgeory ('large' manufacturers as opposed to a 'small' builder like a GT, Pfaff, etc.) They are using emission "credits" accrued from their production of lower horsepower engines to allow the sale of the high performance products. It's way more complicated than it probably needs to be, but John McKnight at NMMA has a good handle on this and of course you can always call CARB at the El Monte office and ask for Jeff Lowery or Kevin Curley for specific questions, both are quite helpful. And you are correct -- homebuilt engines are an entirely different matter and are still unrestricted.

The are 6 ways to skin a cat, and half of them are done every day by engine builders selling engines for boats.
There are loop holes in the law, and I have no doubt the gestapo will close them all in time. Its the American way to squeeze the little guy any way they can. Whether its a small builder, or a do it yourselfer. They will find a way to outlaw it. Its not the industry and sport it was in the 60s. The boats, the builders, and the people involved on both sides, builders and consumers have drastically changed. I look at this period as the "muscle car" period of the 60s. Before that you had to built a fast car, then you just wrote a check. Then they disappeared. We are currently in the "just write a check" phase in boating.

[WESTERNAERO]

Good point, I'll move it


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There is no engine tech section is there?

[Menace Marine]

I will agree they are expensive. However overpriced is a relative term. You can build more for less but the product isn't the only thing you are buying. Mercury sells the most over engineered motor on the market. I have driven and worked on a lot of different builders motors and it is hard to find issue with the mercury product. Their warranty, customer service, and dealer network are far superior to the competition. A warranty issue can be resolved just about anywhere not just at one shop. That is worth a lot to people and it shows when you look at mercury's sales. I can fix and build my own motors and there is no way I could afford the 1200 hp in my boat if it said mercury racing on it. However as a shop owner I can certainly see the appeal of their products. I get far less complaints of any kind in regards to the blur motors as I do with all other builders motors combined. Is it worth the extra money? That's for the individual to decide.


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[gn7]

I will agree they are expensive. However overpriced is a relative term. You can build more for less but the product isn't the only thing you are buying. Mercury sells the most over engineered motor on the market. I have driven and worked on a lot of different builders motors and it is hard to find issue with the mercury product. Their warranty, customer service, and dealer network are far superior to the competition. A warranty issue can be resolved just about anywhere not just at one shop. That is worth a lot to people and it shows when you look at mercury's sales. I can fix and build my own motors and there is no way I could afford the 1200 hp in my boat if it said mercury racing on it. However as a shop owner I can certainly see the appeal of their products. I get far less complaints of any kind in regards to the blur motors as I do with all other builders motors combined. Is it worth the extra money? That's for the individual to decide.


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Like I said, you are buying a warranty. albeit a damn good warranty. You can throw in customers service and nationwide network in there as well. Its the prime factor in what created the Mercury dynasty they enjoy today. Not power. Not price.

Most over engineered? Now that's a relative term.

[gn7]

There is no engine tech section is there?

Your in it. Its all encompassing.
helicopters, cameras, phones, trucks, cars, motorcycles, food, booze, and yes, the occasional boat and engine.

[WESTERNAERO]

Your in it. Its all encompassing.
helicopters, cameras, phones, trucks, cars, motorcycles, food, booze, and yes, the occasional boat and engine.

Wouldn't it make more sense for the tech section to be:

V-drives
Big Baller Inboards
Jets
Eggbeaters
Engines
Drives
Props
P.O.S. wave makers
Lake lice

[GRADS]

The reason they can charge what they do is because there isn't another engine builder out there other than maybe Ilmor and possibly Teague where you can run their motors at WOT for 300 hours with only oil changes. ;)

[WESTERNAERO]

The reason they can charge what they do is because there isn't another engine builder out there other than maybe Ilmor and possibly Teague where you can run their motors at WOT for 300 hours with only oil changes. ;)

Big fat negative on that one. You're paying for insurance.

[Tishimself]

Ehhhh...I'm not the best person to chime in here, because in the HB "How well do you know your motor" pop quiz I score consistently at the bottom of the list. That said, I sometimes wonder how much you pay just for the name when you add a Mercruiser Motor into the boat. I feel I can still get a lot more motor for less money by not going to Merc, but by going to someone like Menace Marine or to Teague. And, I like being face to face with the guy whose name is on the build sheet. No one knows the motor better than the guy who wrenched it. To me, Menace or Teague would get the nod before Mercruiser, and if anyone asked me, I would tell them this to me is a better way to power your boat. You hearing me GRADS??

[WESTERNAERO]

What's the difference between:
4340 steel in the US and any where else in the world?
A German cnc crank grinder located in the US or any where else in the world?
A forging press located in the US or any where else in the world?
What's the difference between a scat crank and a sonny? In my opinion, nothing strength wise. However, I strongly support US made products and because I have the means, I would buy a sonny crank over a scat. I've only seen one scat crank break, and it was the fault of the owner having the blower belt too tight. So for someone on a budget, building a motor, do I think a "Chinese" rotating assembly is okay? Absolutely! But probably not for anything over 600-700 hp.
Now, what cranks, rods, blocks, etc is mercury using that makes their product better than the small engine builders? NOTHING!
You are paying for insurance, warranty, the name mercury, etc.
You could argue this crap for days. My favorite term to hear in the sales world for racing shit is " aircraft grade aluminum" I laugh my ass off ever time I hear that.

[GRADS]

What's the difference between a scat crank and a sonny?

:yikes: WTF kind of porn are you looking at?

[WESTERNAERO]

:yikes: WTF kind of porn are you looking at?

You're an idiot, here I'll capitalize it for you perv. Scat

[Tishimself]

:yikes: WTF kind of porn are you looking at?

Maybe something like this???
{Warning, if you look at this, you can never unsee it. You have been warned}
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=83b_1392415161

[GRADS]

Maybe something like this???
{Warning, if you look at this, you can never unsee it. You have been warned}
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=83b_1392415161

Wow! Way to "crap" on a thread. In her defense, I always give my ass the scratch and sniff test. ;)

[WESTERNAERO]

Wow! Way to "crap" on a thread. In her defense, who hasn't given their ass a the scratch and sniff test. ;)

Thought that was ATM not scratch n sniff

[Tishimself]

Thought that was ATM not scratch n sniff

It was...LOL....

[GRADS]

Thought that was ATM not scratch n sniff

Jesus! You and your ATM and scat cranks tonight.:gayfight2: Speaking from experience?

[WESTERNAERO]

Jesus! You and your ATM and scat cranks tonight.:gayfight2: Speaking from experience?

Watch it fucktard! I'll go all BB on your ass. :biggrin:

[gn7]

The reason they can charge what they do is because there isn't another engine builder out there other than maybe Ilmor and possibly Teague where you can run their motors at WOT for 300 hours with only oil changes. ;)
Grads, you think Merc has a corner on the market for parts made from Unobatainium? You really believe that their engines, even the 1350 and 1650 quad cam have only the best of the best in them? Not even close!!!! The prices may reflect that, and you may think that, but that doesn't make it so.
When you get into the higher HP Mercs, their overhaul schedule IS NOT 300 hours. Think more like 50-60.
In the lower 565 and under, the power they make is nothing for an engine that size.

You started this thread with a question, and now you are an expert on the engines.
Stick to "look at me" and "look what I found" threads Grads.


Maybe something like this???
{Warning, if you look at this, you can never unsee it. You have been warned}
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=83b_1392415161

I can't bring myself click on that.
Some years ago, when you googled Scat Crankshaft, the first website on the screen WAS NOT Scat engine crankshafts.
Our I.T. that had the job of fixing my computer at work called "getting hit by a pornado" I saw more in 30 seconds flashing on the screen than I ever care to see again.
Had a little bit of a time explaining to the boss how and why I was on a site that had that stuff and how I came to be on it.
Luckily, he has known Tom Lieb, the owner of Scat Crankshaft since they were teenagers and he kind of chuckled when I explained it to him.
It was not a pretty site

[GRADS]

Grads, you think Merc has a corner on the market for parts made from Unobatainium? You really believe that their engines, even the 1350 and 1650 quad cam have only the best of the best in them? Not even close!!!! The prices may reflect that, and you may think that, but that doesn't make it so.
When you get into the higher HP Mercs, their overhaul schedule IS NOT 300 hours. Think more like 50-60.
In the lower 565 and under, the power they make is nothing for an engine that size.

You started this thread with a question, and now you are an expert on the engines.
Stick to "look at me" and "look what I found" threads Grads.

I have no clue what parts are in my motor nor do I really give a shit. What I care about is how fast my boat goes and how long the motor lasts. I'm the average buyer and that is why Mercury can charge what they do. That is why I'm looking for a Daytona with Mercury, Ilmor or Teague power.

[WESTERNAERO]

I have no clue what parts are in my motor nor do I really give a shit. What I care about is how fast my boat goes and how long the motor lasts. I'm the average buyer and that is why Mercury can charge what they do. That is why I'm looking for a Daytona with Mercury, Ilmor or Teague power.

So you think mercury has magical micrometers and Dial bore indicators that no other machine shop can get their hands on?

[GRADS]

So you think mercury has magical micrometers and Dial bore indicators that no other machine shop can get their hands on?

They have better flux capacitors.

[WESTERNAERO]

Are looking at a boat with no engine? Is this why you're asking?

[gn7]

I have no clue what parts are in my motor nor do I really give a shit. What I care about is how fast my boat goes and how long the motor lasts. I'm the average buyer and that is why Mercury can charge what they do. That is why I'm looking for a Daytona with Mercury, Ilmor or Teague power.

You are the life blood of Mercury, and they know there is no shortage of your kind. It built the company. I would never deny they did the job of getting that message across than the next guy.
They are the masters of marketing and I give them a AAA+ for it. I give them a B- for the product itself, and a C- for Bang for the buck.
But they are not magicians, and there is nothing magical coming out that place.

When you decide you want to get serious about the power in you motor boat Grads, you just hand me your wallet and credit cards, and we will go on a shopping spree and see want we can find that's in you price range. You may be surprised if it isn't BLUE!
We'll START here!
33572

[Tishimself]

You are the life blood of Mercury, and they know there is no shortage of your kind. It built the company. I would never deny they did the job of getting that message across than the next guy.
They are the masters of marketing and I give them a AAA+ for it. I give them a B- for the product itself, and a C- for Bang for the buck.
But they are not magicians, and there is nothing magical coming out that place.

Paint the top blue, put shiny anodized pulley wheels on it, and they will come. I need more than that.....

[gn7]

Paint the top blue, put shiny anodized pulley wheels on it, and they will come. I need more than that.....

OMG that is some fuuuunnnny shit right there. That could be my sigline quote.
Damn I am glad I wasn't drinking anything. My monitor would be a mess.

BLING SELLS!

[Tishimself]

OMG that is some fuuuunnnny shit right there. That could be my sigline quote.
Damn I am glad I wasn't drinking anything. My monitor would be a mess.

BLING SELLS!

Exactly. I don't much care about the outside of a motor, it's what's inside that counts. THAT's what wins races.

[gn7]

Exactly. I don't much care about the outside of a motor, it's what's inside that counts. THAT's what wins races.

Its not just what wins races, its what gets you thru a weekend, time after time. And Merc does do an admiral job of that, AT A PRICE!
I am not just interested in the power it makes, but what is it exactly I am buying. Power can be made cheap, but it won't last. You can make 500 HP last, and you can do it without it costing your first born.
Merc managed to convince a huge boating public that you do need to fork over your kids college fund + your retirement + your kids inheritance for the same power a Corvette made in 1969, and somehow made them willing to do it. Its far more marketing genius than it is engineering genius.
Merc is like the drug dealer of marine horsepower. A little pretty bow and some bling just to make it all seem more pleasing as you are getting the shafting. You know how it is. Some candy and flowers can lead to a good fucking.

[HB Vic]

I guess if GN7 didn't build it or doesn't approve of it, it isn't worth a nickel. I can tell you this GN7, there are thousands of Merc motors out there that run flawless and are making their owners happy campers. That's what it all about isn't it? What they paid for it is their business right? Just a little food for thought sir. There are other schools of thought out there.


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[gn7]

I guess if GN7 didn't build it or doesn't approve of it, it isn't worth a nickel. I can tell you this GN7, there are thousands of Merc motors out there that run flawless and are making their owners happy campers. That's what it all about isn't it? What they paid for it is their business right? Just a little food for thought sir. There are other schools of thought out there.


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I never said any thing like that. They can assemble an engine as good as the next guy. That's not their real talent. Marketing is.
Consider that this engine has not one single part other than the oil pan and valve covers and water pump that has not been used in a Merc Racing engine. Only 3 parts.
Then consider the cost difference to buy exhaust and some other parts.
When was the last time you heard GM couldn't assemble an engine? Least we forget that 99.9% of all the engines Merc sells are based on an engine GM designed from the the ground up. I think they have a pretty good handle on how to build one. Merc didn't design anything any more than I did. They are just buying parts and putting them together.

I think it would have been more accurate to say, If Merc didn't build it, the blind, deaf and dumb think its a POS.

For less than the DIFFERENCE between a 502 Mercruiser, and a 520 Merc Racing. That's some EXPENSIVE ASSEMBLING!!
620 HP pump gas. Its biggest failure is, its not BLUE!
http://static.summitracing.com/global/images/prod/large/nal-19201334_w.jpg

[FormulaZR]

I guess if GN7 didn't build it or doesn't approve of it, it isn't worth a nickel. I can tell you this GN7, there are thousands of Merc motors out there that run flawless and are making their owners happy campers. That's what it all about isn't it? What they paid for it is their business right? Just a little food for thought sir. There are other schools of thought out there.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

They should run flawlessly. A 523 CID engine making 520-540 horsepower really isn't working very hard.

[Tishimself]

People who buy mercs do it because they don't know better. The are the bandwagon people of the boating industry. Merc makes a nice pretty blingy motor, to be sure. But I wonder, all things being equal, how much more did you pay for that blue motor with a million sensors in it vs. a shop built equivalent?

[Sharp shooter]

I have no clue what parts are in my motor nor do I really give a shit. What I care about is how fast my boat goes and how long the motor lasts. I'm the average buyer and that is why Mercury can charge what they do. That is why I'm looking for a Daytona with Mercury, Ilmor or Teague power.

Your last boat topped out at 68 mph and took a day and a half to get there... When you had the Jessie James boat did it ever actually run? :realitycheck: HAHAHA!!!!

[Sharp shooter]

People who buy mercs do it because they don't know better. The are the bandwagon people of the boating industry. Merc makes a nice pretty blingy motor, to be sure. But I wonder, all things being equal, how much more did you pay for that blue motor with a million sensors in it vs. a shop built equivalent?

Bam!

"A fool and his money are soon parted"- Thomas Tusser:D

[gn7]

They should run flawlessly. A 523 CID engine making 520-540 horsepower really isn't working very hard.
Yeah think?
Nor are they spinning very fast, which explains the low HP per cubic inch. My shop van spins as many RPM as a Merc. I understand why. They pretty much all do regardless who the builder is.
I don't really have a bitch with Merc. I don't own anything they make and not sure I ever will. I understand pretty much having to use their drive, they have the market cornered there. Kudos to them, and they did infact engineer it and make it work. Again, for a price.
They didn't however design a single component, nor manufacture virtually anything inside the engines.

What I find interesting is, you can go on Teague's site, and see almost every part he uses to build an engine, who makes it and see the price he sells the parts for. I can tell you, the prices he sells engine parts for is as good as most speed shops. and better one a lot of stuff. So you can sit down with a calculator and see just how much he is charging to assemble those parts into a running engine. You can make an educated decision if you think its worth the price he is asking. And I can tell you, the stuff he is using is some of the best parts out there. Some is the same stuff Merc uses, others are BETTER! MUCH BETTER.
Yet people will GLADLY pay almost twice for something less because it's a Merc. I have a hard time wrapping my head around that. I'm not that easily swayed.

People lay out huge cash for something, and have no idea whats in it, or who made it.
I have no doubt Grads thinks Merc makes it all and he is not alone. I use to be stunned by the number of people that have Mercs and believe that they designed and build the entire engine like GM and Ford do. I stopped being amazed by huge population of boat owners decades ago.

[GRADS]

Your last boat topped out at 68 mph and took a day and a half to get there... When you had the Jessie James boat did it ever actually run? :realitycheck: HAHAHA!!!!

<------------And the boat before that had Merc 525's and did 115 mph.



EDIT: and for hundreds of hours.

[gn7]

<------------And the boat before that had Merc 525's and did 115 mph.



EDIT: and for hundreds of hours.
Grads, tell us all again. how you drove that boat at 115 for hundreds of hours.

[GRADS]

Grads, tell us all again. how you drove that boat at 115 for hundreds of hours.

I trimmed it high and let it fly.

[Sharp shooter]

<------------And the boat before that had Merc 525's and did 115 mph.



EDIT: and for hundreds of hours.

I would've dumped it too if I was only seeing 115 from twin mega dollar merc engines. lol No scratch that, I wouldn't have bought it in the first place.:coffee-n-news:

On a positive note, I like those Tahoe pics! That lake is beautiful!! :thumbup:

[GRADS]

I would've dumped it too if I was only seeing 115 from twin mega dollar merc engines. lol No scratch that, I wouldn't have bought it in the first place.:coffee-n-news:

On a positive note, I like those Tahoe pics! That lake is beautiful!! :thumbup:

Did I mention you could have a cocktail at 100 mph without spilling it? Try that in a jet boat.

[Sharp shooter]

Grads, tell us all again. how you drove that boat at 115 for hundreds of hours.

He loved it so much that he upgraded to a boat with no engine and then sold that one because it was obviously too much work and then bought a 60 mph tuna boat (flamed out to "look" fast to uneducated eyes :Lame: ) that couldn't beat 99% of all jetboats in this world. :deadhorsejz2:

[Sharp shooter]

Did I mention you could have a cocktail at 100 mph without spilling it? Try that in a jet boat.

You obviously never seen a twin jet Trident. :stir: :D

[Sharp shooter]

http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb39/Roadroamer1/gene_wilder_60539-1600x1200_zps9a7b9181.jpg (http://s208.photobucket.com/user/Roadroamer1/media/gene_wilder_60539-1600x1200_zps9a7b9181.jpg.html)


Lol!!!!

[GRADS]

You obviously never seen a twin jet Trident. :stir: :D

Neither has anyone else. :hilarious:

[Tishimself]

Neither has anyone else. :hilarious:
And never will....:D

[HotWater]

Your last boat topped out at 68 mph and took a day and a half to get there... When you had the Jessie James boat did it ever actually run? :realitycheck: HAHAHA!!!!
Topped out at 68 mph, hehehe that's cute! A fun boat does'nt even start working good until about 68.

[GRADS]

The Shockwave topped out at 65 which is 5 mph faster than any jet boat and for what I sold the Jessie James boat for (without a motor) I bought 6 jet boats.;)

[Sharp shooter]

I bought 6 jet boats.;)

You should have....