Prop Shaft

[SnoC653]

so since your making a copy and doing a very slight change its okay because your doing it, but if i take a prop and do a slight change the world ends ... your not on earth

Reading comprehension seems to be lacking around here. If you take a prop and copy it, that is not the same as making a replacement part to take the place of a broken part (a part that fits the same space, but is not a direct copy) A digitally copied then reproduced part is a copy. It's not slightly changed, it's a copy.

[ogshotgun]

so a team i help with , had some custom hand ground props made for there boat , tested them , liked them and sent them out to three companies to digitize and buy a set from each.. all three sets came in and laid side by side to the original hand ground prop ..all three sets were different some minor some drastic..so having your tk brand of prop and digitized and cnc made doesn't mean your getting a exact copy.. so with that being being said why isn't every prop patent ? because all of them are a fn copy...

[HB Vic]

Awww the warmth and brotherly boating love is flowing in this mofo :D


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[gn7]

Awww the warmth and brotherly boating love is flowing in this mofo :D


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Some people feel the more they flap their lips, the more relevant they think they are. In snoc's case, the more he posts, the more he removes all doubt just little he knows
If he is looking from brotherly love, he should start a FB page and collect "friends"

Don't you have a Fireball and E cig thread to attend to on the sandbox

[HB Vic]

Some people feel the more they flap their lips, the more relevant they think they are. In snoc's case, the more he posts, the more he removes all doubt just little he knows

And I repeat lol

the warmth and brotherly boating love is flowing in this mofo :D


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[HotWater]

And I repeat lol

the warmth and brotherly boating love is flowing in this mofo :D


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That's how we do it up in this mofo! Women and children need not apply!:wink2:

[gn7]

That's how we do it up in this mofo! Women and children need not apply!:wink2:

V drives aren't for the weak

[HB Vic]

V drives aren't for the weak

Unless your propshaft breaks :D


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[HB Vic]

Sounds like an outdrive problem

Usually gears let loose first :D

Or the entire case.


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[SnoC653]

so a team i help with , had some custom hand ground props made for there boat , tested them , liked them and sent them out to three companies to digitize and buy a set from each.. all three sets came in and laid side by side to the original hand ground prop ..all three sets were different some minor some drastic..so having your tk brand of prop and digitized and cnc made doesn't mean your getting a exact copy.. so with that being being said why isn't every prop patent ? because all of them are a fn copy...

Sounds like they need to get a better company to copy their props. If they paid for the props and paid the designer for the design they can make as many copies of his work as they want. If he was just an prop builder and they designed it and he just built it, they can do whatever they like with their design. And go research how patents work. You can't patent every prop as that's not how patents work.


Awww the warmth and brotherly boating love is flowing in this mofo :D



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We all have thick skin, some like GN7 have the skull to go along with it.


Some people feel the more they flap their lips, the more relevant they think they are. In snoc's case, the more he posts, the more he removes all doubt just little he knows
If he is looking from brotherly love, he should start a FB page and collect "friends"

Don't you have a Fireball and E cig thread to attend to on the sandbox

Says the person that does more gum flapping that all the rest of us combined. Go get the 6th graders to help you with the big words Bob. Maybe they can teach you a little about grammar while they're at it.

[ogshotgun]

Reading comprehension seems to be lacking around here. If you take a prop and copy it, that is not the same as making a replacement part to take the place of a broken part (a part that fits the same space, but is not a direct copy) A digitally copied then reproduced part is a copy. It's not slightly changed, it's a copy. i can guarantee you nothing is exactly the fn same not even from the same shop its called tolerances , now what ?

[ogshotgun]

That's how we do it up in this mofo! Women and children need not apply!:wink2:agreed no room for wussies or flakes will be weeded out !!

[ogshotgun]

Sounds like they need to get a better company to copy their props. If they paid for the props and paid the designer for the design they can make as many copies of his work as they want. If he was just an prop builder and they designed it and he just built it, they can do whatever they like with their design. And go research how patents work. You can't patent every prop as that's not how patents work.





We all have thick skin, some like GN7 have the skull to go along with it.



Says the person that does more gum flapping that all the rest of us combined. Go get the 6th graders to help you with the big words Bob. Maybe they can teach you a little about grammar while they're at it.

if i say who them from i get oh don't put names thats not cool, lets just say ..one of them has a box of prop castings on here, and the other is a name of some older flat bottoms and the third is secret ..they did the best but not dead fn nuts.

[ogshotgun]

Then why are you here? :biggrin:

to help weed out spam ...LMAO

[HB Vic]

Yeah, I can't believe they investment cast those gears. All that doe and cast gears.

They're actually forged. The cases are cast, so lose a tooth on a gear and pop goes the wallet book :D

[HB Vic]

I was looking at some worn gears and they sure looked like investment cast to me.

If they were used they were probably pitted. Pits are what starts the tooth decay and eventual wallet failure :D

[HB Vic]

I wasn't referring to the pitting, the overall gear itself defiantly doesn't look like a forging. They're actually an oddly designed gear. There is no way to finish grind the gear face on them. So it's a little hard to believe that they would be forged with the surface finish they have.

Merc has had issues with brand new gearsets. The good shops will reject a fair amount of them before accepting a set that looks decent.

But yes, they don't look all that great.

[ogshotgun]

And to keep this on track for Snoc, should imco pay royalties to mercury for the outdrive?
haha hes so busing paying royalties hell never finish his boat lol

[SnoC653]

And to keep this on track for Snoc, should imco pay royalties to mercury for the outdrive?

Did they copy Mercury's outdrives or develop their own using Mercury's concept? Are they using any of Mercury's key concepts for the outdrive? Did Mercury patent the outdrive concept or any of the key components of it? And if so has that patent expired or has Mercury kept it current? And was Mercury even the one that developed the first outdrive?

Surely you should know that these questions need to be answered before your question can be.

[gn7]

Did they copy Mercury's outdrives or develop their own using Mercury's concept? Are they using any of Mercury's key concepts for the outdrive? Did Mercury patent the outdrive concept or any of the key components of it? And if so has that patent expired or has Mercury kept it current? And was Mercury even the one that developed the first outdrive?

Surely you should know that these questions need to be answered before your question can be.
Who developed the first screw prop. Menkins? Hi Johnson> Are they all paying royalties to them.
Whos getting paid the fucking paper clip?

Did that assclown thief Gusti pay Rudy Ramos royalities when he stole the idea for a flat bottom v drive boat for the half dozen POS he made before going bankrupt
The best part of getting you to open you mouth snoc, is you are MORE than willing to show the entire world just how fucking dumb you really are. Its amazing. Like intellectual suicide. But that would assume you had a brain to start with Mr Military INTEL

[ogshotgun]

Who developed the first screw prop. Menkins? Hi Johnson> Are they all paying royalties to them.
Whos getting paid the fucking paper clip?

Did that assclown thief Gusti pay Rudy Ramos royalities when he stole the idea for a flat bottom v drive boat for the half dozen POS he made before going bankrupt
The best part of getting you to open you mouth snoc, is you are MORE than willing to show the entire world just how fucking dumb you really are. Its amazing. Like intellectual suicide. But that would assume you had a brain to start with Mr Military INTEL
lmao and hes a retired pilot , but now taking lessons lmao how about this ?38849 for Snoc

[SnoC653]

Who developed the first screw prop. Menkins? Hi Johnson> Are they all paying royalties to them.
Whos getting paid the fucking paper clip?

Did that assclown thief Gusti pay Rudy Ramos royalities when he stole the idea for a flat bottom v drive boat for the half dozen POS he made before going bankrupt
The best part of getting you to open you mouth snoc, is you are MORE than willing to show the entire world just how fucking dumb you really are. Its amazing. Like intellectual suicide. But that would assume you had a brain to start with Mr Military INTEL

Talk about clueless, you do realize that screw props were around long before Menkins. Of course you probably don't, but don't let facts stop your drivel. And the real questions should be, did they Patent the idea? and did they keep the patents up to date? The same questions apply to the flat bottom, and the paper clip. But, as usual, you just don't get it. You sure do seem to have a pattern of clueless questions that just don't matter on the subject being discussed. Go back and hit a few more meetings, my guess is you're not completely back on that wagon yet.


lmao and hes a retired pilot , but now taking lessons lmao how about this ?38849 for Snoc

Well at least GN7 has one fan. Just be careful, GN7 has been known to take some pretty sharp turns when it becomes obvious that he is talking out his ass. I don't want you to suffer a broken neck or anything. Now as for your idiotic comment, who do you think is a retired pilot? And since I'm trying to be nice to you cupcake, I'll also try to explain that there is a difference between airplanes and helicopters and how they fly. Flying one isn't the same as flying the other. Furthermore, military pilots are not required to have a FAA certification, so if we want to fly in the civilian world we have to meet civilian regulations and that includes training and check rides. BTW what do you fly, other than off the handle?

[gn7]

Talk about clueless, you do realize that screw props were around long before Menkins.



No shit you ignorant fuck? Perhaps you would like to fill me in on the history of the screw prop you POS self proclaim legal genius?

Your so much fun snoc, Your a like a toy car I had as a kid. You wound it up, it a took off out of control and self destructed when it hit a wall. Your same way,
Start you up, and in time, you fucking self destruct. Its comical. It doesn't matter if it religion, politics, or capsule Ks or any boat topic. Your mouth self manages to make you 3 times the fool I could ever hoped. You've completely blown your wad over at PB, where the weak are eaten, and WEAK is your middle name.
Now go feed the horsies, clean the stall, start dinner, and maybe if you are a good boy the little she will let you spend 10 minutes working on your Gusti this weekend.

If nothing else, like the toy car, you're great entertainment.

[SnoC653]

No shit you ignorant fuck? Perhaps you would like to fill me in on the history of the screw prop you POS self proclaim legal genius?

Your so much fun snoc, Your a like a toy car I had as a kid. You wound it up, it a took off out of control and self destructed when it hit a wall. Your same way,
Start you up, and in time, you fucking self destruct. Its comical. It doesn't matter if it religion, politics, or capsule Ks or any boat topic. Your mouth self manages to make you 3 times the fool I could ever hoped. You've completely blown your wad over at PB, where the weak are eaten, and WEAK is your middle name.
Now go feed the horsies, clean the stall, start dinner, and maybe if you are a good boy the little she will let you spend 10 minutes working on your Gusti this weekend.

If nothing else, like the toy car, you're great entertainment.

You had a toy car? Did you get the neighbor kid to drive it for you? Or has the afraid to drive your own stuff only been since the problem got out of hand for you?

[HB Vic]

I want to close this thread but the comedy value is through the roof. I haven't heard name calling like this since the 6th grade lol


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[SnoC653]

I want to close this thread but the comedy value is through the roof. I haven't heard name calling like this since the 6th grade lol


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See, that's why this is good for Bob. From his grammatical skills, it is pretty obvious he didn't make it to the 6th grade.

[ogshotgun]

Talk about clueless, you do realize that screw props were around long before Menkins. Of course you probably don't, but don't let facts stop your drivel. And the real questions should be, did they Patent the idea? and did they keep the patents up to date? The same questions apply to the flat bottom, and the paper clip. But, as usual, you just don't get it. You sure do seem to have a pattern of clueless questions that just don't matter on the subject being discussed. Go back and hit a few more meetings, my guess is you're not completely back on that wagon yet.



Well at least GN7 has one fan. Just be careful, GN7 has been known to take some pretty sharp turns when it becomes obvious that he is talking out his ass. I don't want you to suffer a broken neck or anything. Now as for your idiotic comment, who do you think is a retired pilot? And since I'm trying to be nice to you cupcake, I'll also try to explain that there is a difference between airplanes and helicopters and how they fly. Flying one isn't the same as flying the other. Furthermore, military pilots are not required to have a FAA certification, so if we want to fly in the civilian world we have to meet civilian regulations and that includes training and check rides. BTW what do you fly, other than off the handle?

I fly my boat down the river, and across the lakes !!! not a pilot but i sure can run that gunners seat !!, also i fly a traxxas quad copter , and a 1/4 scale corsair

[gn7]

I fly my boat down the river, and across the lakes !!! not a pilot but i sure can run that gunners seat !!,

You could of stopped right there. snoc sat in a bare hull on trailer once.

[mouzer]

Mmmmmmmm mmmmm this is getting really good...........:popcorn::popcorn::usa: vs :cyberguy:

[SnoC653]

You could of stopped right there. snoc sat in a bare hull on trailer once.

Clueless and completely wrong as usual. Are you stuck trying to get past the first step again?

[ogshotgun]

You could of stopped right there. snoc sat in a bare hull on trailer once.

your on a roll bob omg lmao lol

[HB Vic]

If ever a thread and posts deserved a like button, this thread would be the one LOL

Classic stuff here.

[SnoC653]

your on a roll bob omg lmao lol

Do you prefer to swing from his left sac or his right one? Man I'm glad I retired before they started letting you DADT people in. But since you wouldn't know the truth if you stepped in it let me help you out; sitting in the hull of a boat is still way more than anything Bob has done. Imagine owning a race boat and not having the testicular fortitude to drive it. Perhaps if you swing on them long enough they will stretch to the point he might at least sit in it and start it up. Hell, maybe he'll even putt it around the course just so he can say he drove it. :LMAOsmiley:

[SnoC653]

This is the most retarded thing yet. There are owners, there are drivers and there are mechanics. That"s why they call it a race TEAM. Try to do all three and you will never be competitive.

Your right, your statement is pretty retarded. There are a lot of racers that do all three and they are successful. And I know that and don't even live out there to watch all the races.

[ogshotgun]

Do you prefer to swing from his left sac or his right one? Man I'm glad I retired before they started letting you DADT people in. But since you wouldn't know the truth if you stepped in it let me help you out; sitting in the hull of a boat is still way more than anything Bob has done. Imagine owning a race boat and not having the testicular fortitude to drive it. Perhaps if you swing on them long enough they will stretch to the point he might at least sit in it and start it up. Hell, maybe he'll even putt it around the course just so he can say he drove it. :LMAOsmiley:

but its a complete boat lol...

[ogshotgun]

Your right, your statement is pretty retarded. There are a lot of racers that do all three and they are successful. And I know that and don't even live out there to watch all the races.

were not buying your sno job lol.. its sunny out here snoc would melt lol.. and a successful one man band race team lol what century was this lmao

[ogshotgun]

Do you prefer to swing from his left sac or his right one? Man I'm glad I retired before they started letting you DADT people in. But since you wouldn't know the truth if you stepped in it let me help you out; sitting in the hull of a boat is still way more than anything Bob has done. Imagine owning a race boat and not having the testicular fortitude to drive it. Perhaps if you swing on them long enough they will stretch to the point he might at least sit in it and start it up. Hell, maybe he'll even putt it around the course just so he can say he drove it. :LMAOsmiley:
i would row with bob in his boat with no motor than to listen you whine lol while i swing from his sac lol lmao

[ogshotgun]

and at the rate Snoc is going on his Kboat that he claims he's building ,, they will all be capsuled and than hell more reasons to never finish it or get his sac out of his purse omg lol

[HB Vic]

Lmfao, I haven't heard the "R" word since Jr High. Classic.


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[SnoC653]

were not buying your sno job lol.. its sunny out here snoc would melt lol.. and a successful one man band race team lol what century was this lmao

Nobody said a one man team, you said one man couldn't do all three and be successful. A lot of people own, wrench on, and drive their own boats. That doesn't mean they don't have others that help them. Maybe you should ask Bob to have a porthole installed in his belly button so you can read what is actually said. Oh wait, you said it, no wonder you don't know what was actually said.


i would row with bob in his boat with no motor than to listen you whine lol while i swing from his sac lol lmao

You're in luck. Bob has a 4 stroke in his boat. You can go out and stroke with him. But at least you're admitting that you swing from his sac. I'm sure he's thrilled to have such a mechanically minded giant as his new friend.


and at the rate Snoc is going on his Kboat that he claims he's building ,, they will all be capsuled and than hell more reasons to never finish it or get his sac out of his purse omg lol

Cupcake you best stick to being an overweight, out of shape speedy 4. You certainly aren't going to make it as a fortune teller. You're don't know squat about what I have or don't have. What the status of my projects are or aren't. But that's no surprise, you really don't even know the status of your own project. Just remember the advise I gave you in the other thread is also learned from experience. Who knows, by the time you get yours back together you may be a general.

[SnoC653]

Lmfao, I haven't heard the "R" word since Jr High. Classic.


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See his education is moving right along. We've progressed to Jr. High from the 6th grade. :readpb: :rotflmao:

[gn7]

Lmfao, I haven't heard the "R" word since Jr High. Classic.


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I haven't read some of the shit I see in the sandbox since elementary school.

[ogshotgun]

Nobody said a one man team, you said one man couldn't do all three and be successful. A lot of people own, wrench on, and drive their own boats. That doesn't mean they don't have others that help them. Maybe you should ask Bob to have a porthole installed in his belly button so you can read what is actually said. Oh wait, you said it, no wonder you don't know what was actually said.



You're in luck. Bob has a 4 stroke in his boat. You can go out and stroke with him. But at least you're admitting that you swing from his sac. I'm sure he's thrilled to have such a mechanically minded giant as his new friend.



Cupcake you best stick to being an overweight, out of shape speedy 4. You certainly aren't going to make it as a fortune teller. You're don't know squat about what I have or don't have. What the status of my projects are or aren't. But that's no surprise, you really don't even know the status of your own project. Just remember the advise I gave you in the other thread is also learned from experience. Who knows, by the time you get yours back together you may be a general.

YOUR WORDS"There are a lot of racers that do all three and they are successful" SO WHAT ARE YOU DISAGREEING WITH YOUR SELF LIKE THE REST OF US?

FROM WHAT I CAN TELL BOB HAS A SAC YOU DONT YOU ADMITTED THAT YOUR WIFE HAD YOU CASTRATED AND YOUR SAC IS IN HER PURSE LAMO

OUT OF SHAPE LOL, OVERWEIGHT LOL I MAKE MY WEIGH IN BY A HUGE NUMBER ASSHOLE.,. WANT TO GET PERSONAL DO YOU??? MY PROJECT IS FN HUNG UP BY A GUY THAT SAID PAY CASH UP FRONT MONEY TALKS IT WILL BE READY IN 60 DAYS HE WAS PAID IN NOVEMBER 1ST IN FULL WITH CASH !!!! SO FUCK YOU... THE REST IS READY WAITING ON SOME ONE ELSE ,, I HAVE THE MONEY AND EVERY FN PART READY TO GO NOT LIKE YOU ASSHOLE!!!!

ALSO I WORK ON THE WORLDS QUICKEST AND FASTEST DRAG BOAT .. YOU RUN YOUR FN MOUTH LIKE ALL AIR FORCE ASSHOLES

DONT LET THAT E-4 PUT SNOW IN YOUR EYES DOUCHE BAG I RETIRED FROM THE US ARMY AS A MAJOR FYI, AFTER 20 YEARS GOT BORED JOINED THE GUARD AND INSTEAD OF USING MY RANK AND TELLING DICK HEADS LIKE YOU WHAT TO DO , I TOOK NO FN RANK AND STARTED FROM THE BEGINING SO FU

[SnoC653]

YOUR WORDS"There are a lot of racers that do all three and they are successful" SO WHAT ARE YOU DISAGREEING WITH YOUR SELF LIKE THE REST OF US?

FROM WHAT I CAN TELL BOB HAS A SAC YOU DONT YOU ADMITTED THAT YOUR WIFE HAD YOU CASTRATED AND YOUR SAC IS IN HER PURSE LAMO

OUT OF SHAPE LOL, OVERWEIGHT LOL I MAKE MY WEIGH IN BY A HUGE NUMBER ASSHOLE.,. WANT TO GET PERSONAL DO YOU??? MY PROJECT IS FN HUNG UP BY A GUY THAT SAID PAY CASH UP FRONT MONEY TALKS IT WILL BE READY IN 60 DAYS HE WAS PAID IN NOVEMBER 1ST IN FULL WITH CASH !!!! SO FUCK YOU... THE REST IS READY WAITING ON SOME ONE ELSE ,, I HAVE THE MONEY AND EVERY FN PART READY TO GO NOT LIKE YOU ASSHOLE!!!!

ALSO I WORK ON THE WORLDS QUICKEST AND FASTEST DRAG BOAT .. YOU RUN YOUR FN MOUTH LIKE ALL AIR FORCE ASSHOLES

DONT LET THAT E-4 PUT SNOW IN YOUR EYES DOUCHE BAG I RETIRED FROM THE US ARMY AS A MAJOR FYI, AFTER 20 YEARS GOT BORED JOINED THE GUARD AND INSTEAD OF USING MY RANK AND TELLING DICK HEADS LIKE YOU WHAT TO DO , I TOOK NO FN RANK AND STARTED FROM THE BEGINING SO FU

So you were rifted, there is a reason for that speedy. You do realize that the Army operates on the peter principle? Up or out, so after 20 yrs you made it to O4 and now you're an E4. I guess they found your level of incompetency. That speaks volumes about you. And you aren't retired if you enlisted back in. You really do have a simple mind if you don't think I know how the military works. And from the pictures I've seen of you, huge is the right word, but it doesn't apply the margin you make tape by.

And again your reading comprehension skills show, or should I say show up missing. My wife and I make our budget plans together we have equal say. I spend my discretionary funding where I choose to. But ask your man Stu, why my wife might be turned off by boats right now. I don't fault you for picking the wrong guy for the job. But paying 100% up front wasn't wise. Being close enough to go check on your shit in person and not doing it, well that's a whole different animal. That's just plain stupid or cowardice.

And how do you know what parts I do or don't have? Again you don't but hell it sounds good, so go with it. I don't have all the parts I want to use. Just like you should be upgrading the quality of some of the old shit that was on your tub, I plan on putting it together once with the right stuff. As for your racing experience, every team needs a mascot even if it's just someone to dry and oil the props.

And remember you're the one that wanted to get personal. I'm just returning the favor. So get some thicker skin or get back under the porch. Because while you're getting angry, I'm laughing my ass off at how easy you are to play with.

[gn7]

So you were rifted, there is a reason for that speedy. You do realize that the Army operates on the peter principle? Up or out, so after 20 yrs you made it to O4 and now you're an E4. http://www.smwnpf.org/forms/.

Like any other government job, it is based on the peter principle, and how much you are willing to gobble. You probably manage more than your fair share. Being a desk jocky, I am sure you spent a considerable amount of time under a few.

[gn7]

So when your boats done and your ready to go racing, who's going to drop your ass in the water, the invisible man. Won't be very successful if you can't launch.

First the boat needs to be rigged, and an engine built and maintained. snoc has more than proven he is more than incapable of doing either on a winning level.

[SnoC653]

Like any other government job, it is based on the peter principle, and how much you are willing to gobble. You probably manage more than your fair share. Being a desk jocky, I am sure you spent a considerable amount of time under a few.

You've got a lot of experience with those type jobs so I'm sure you're good at them. Explains why you're such a dick, mamma always said you are what you eat. And you have how much military experience? That's right, your brother served. You didn't do that either. I'm seeing a pattern here. Someone else takes the risk, you run your mouth.


First the boat needs to be rigged, and an engine built and maintained. snoc has more than proven he is more than incapable of doing either on a winning level..

Already have an engine, are you saying the guy that built it didn't know what he was doing? Or are you talking out your ass, because you don't know what you're talking about again? And how can I have proven I'm not capable when you've not seen my stuff race? I know, say whatever. Someone might believe it.


Yeah I kinda figured that when he thought anno was paint. But I was just making a simple example of how there are NO one man teams in boat racing. As far as you not driving your boat, who gives a shit. Your the owner and I'm assuming the mechanic and you have a driver available with more talent than you. So why would you not utilize a better driver and be more competitive. Snoc just trying to be a shit disturber.

And case in point. Where did I ever say I wouldn't have a team or that I would be a one man team? They spew shit and you took it hook line and sinker. Its great that you can look at a picture and know its anno. The machine shop says its paint too. But what would someone know that has physically seen it? OGsoftone was the one that said it had to be anno. Again they say it, you believe them. I though you were sharper than that.

Its not a mater of someone being a better driver than Bob. Bob has never driven. Period. Not even to check the boat out to see what he has. He seems to be lacking when it comes to using his sac for anything short of letting people like OG swing on them.

[ogshotgun]

Yeah I kinda figured that when he thought anno was paint. But I was just making a simple example of how there are NO one man teams in boat racing. As far as you not driving your boat, who gives a shit. Your the owner and I'm assuming the mechanic and you have a driver available with more talent than you. So why would you not utilize a better driver and be more competitive. Snoc just trying to be a shit disturber.
snoc is a fn idiot lol.. probably got a dishonorable discharge from having semen in his bowels !!!
also aim the prop and shaft guy on the team ,,, your a idiot,, mascots ? wasn't that your job in the air force is to pose as a pilot ???
snoc 20 years i served in the us army retired with full pension,,the guard is a reserve and i only i opted to start at the beginning again dumb ass not because you blow every one in the air force isn't my problem , i still serve my country!!! what do you do for your country ? collect welfare ? what rank were you i saw a e5 on your uniform lmao
every part in my boat is completely new or refurbished , because i didn't change the strut angle or drive doesn't mean the parts aren't new or i don't have the money ,,, want to play big bank takes small bank ????
how many deployments have you had ? and going from base to base on a bus tour isn't a deployment actual war time deployments to hot zones!!
hell never finish his boat ever because of several reason
wife controls the bitch snoc
wife has 0 confidence in his abilities and won't let him work on the boat
he has no clue what he fn speaks
he can't with a one man team lol

excuse after excuse after excuse after bs

here are a few of my deployments 39055390573905839060

and i am also a combat medic 39061

i had a encounter with a air force helicopter pilot i fn held at gun point because he was trying to leave my squad behind because he heard small arm fire !! Was that you asshole?

[gn7]

.

Already have an engine, are you saying the guy that built it didn't know what he was doing? Or are you talking out your ass, because you don't know what you're talking about again? And how can I have proven I'm not capable when you've not seen my stuff race? I know, say whatever. Someone might believe it.




Its not a mater of someone being a better driver than Bob. Bob has never driven. Period. Not even to check the boat out to see what he has. He seems to be lacking when it comes to using his sac for anything short of letting people like OG swing on them.

Why the fuck don't you expand on your fucking knowledge of what, when and where I have raced, and please feel free to include your own vast racing experience dumbfuck,
Please clue me in on the VAST knowledge of the racing that engine you have has done. What classes and how many races, many the number of wins and championships his has racked up. You are soooo fucking clueless.

[HB Vic]

If you can't express yourself properly use the word fuck I always say.


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[gn7]

If you can't express yourself properly use the word fuck I always say.


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I have a "C" word I would like to use to describe snoc, but that's frowned upon here, even referring to a "guy"

No matter how accurate it is.

[HB Vic]

I have a "C" word I would like to use to describe snoc, but that's frowned upon here, even referring to a "guy"

No matter how accurate it is.

Yeah that word is just as intellectual.

[gn7]

Yeah that word is just as intellectual.

You give a better descriptive word, I'll be happy to use it. Some words have no alternatives.

[ogshotgun]

You give a better descriptive word, I'll be happy to use it. Some words have no alternatives.

Bob as far as i am concerned your a racer with vast knowledge, i would give you a hand any day any track any race no matter what you needed because Thats who i am , Snoc can being sinking on the launch ramp because he didn't put his plug in, on his one man team and i would walk right because he's a C word!!!!!

[SnoC653]

QUOTE=ogshotgun;109335]snoc is a fn idiot lol.. probably got a dishonorable discharge from having semen in his bowels !!!
also aim the prop and shaft guy on the team ,,, your a idiot,, mascots ? wasn't that your job in the air force is to pose as a pilot ???
snoc 20 years i served in the us army retired with full pension,,the guard is a reserve and i only i opted to start at the beginning again dumb ass not because you blow every one in the air force isn't my problem , i still serve my country!!! what do you do for your country ? collect welfare ? what rank were you i saw a e5 on your uniform lmao
every part in my boat is completely new or refurbished , because i didn't change the strut angle or drive doesn't mean the parts aren't new or i don't have the money ,,, want to play big bank takes small bank ????
how many deployments have you had ? and going from base to base on a bus tour isn't a deployment actual war time deployments to hot zones!!
hell never finish his boat ever because of several reason
wife controls the bitch snoc
wife has 0 confidence in his abilities and won't let him work on the boat
he has no clue what he fn speaks
he can't with a one man team lol

excuse after excuse after excuse after bs

here are a few of my deployments 39055390573905839060

and i am also a combat medic 39061

i had a encounter with a air force helicopter pilot i fn held at gun point because he was trying to leave my squad behind because he heard small arm fire !![/QUOTE]
Speaking of idiots, where did anyone say I was in the Air Farce. I retired title 10 from the Army with 22 yes active and 7 reserve. And I've had 3 combat tours. You should have recognized the air medal you get for combat flight duty. I also have about 13 combat patches I'm authorized to wear including both the 1 Mar Div and 2 Mar Div patches. And as a sapper team leader I have a CAB to go with them. You can figure out how an E5 was wearing senior aviator wings. And are you claiming to be a combat medic or a combat lifesaver? Huge difference.

So are you saying you started as an E1 in the guard? If so you are either an idiot or a liar.

And for those following along at home: 2LT (2yrs), 1LT (2yrs), CPT (6 yrs), MAJ (6 yrs) = 16 yrs and should be promoted to LTC. The only way to be out as a MAJ is to be non select for promotion twice and manage to sqeak in an 18 yr lock to retire at 20. How am I doing speedy?

Some day you'll learn not to start a pissing contest unless you don't mind getting pissed on yourself.

[HB Vic]

You give a better descriptive word, I'll be happy to use it. Some words have no alternatives.

All words have alternatives, you know that.

[gn7]

Speaking of idiots, where did anyone say I was in the Air Farce. I retired title 10 from the Army with 22 yes active and 7 reserve. .

You haven't retired, that's your major fucking hang up. You spent your entire life kissing the ass of those above, and DEMANDED the same from those below you. YOU have ALWAYS had a distaste and looked down on ANYBODY that didn't serve and always will. Well FUCL YOU SNOC, and the Humvee you drove in on.
The one up side to never have been in the military is, YOUR FUCKING WORD HAS NO BEARING ON CIVILAINS AT ALL. Serving does not make you one bit superior as you like to think. I have 2 bothers who served, one for over 10 years in Nam as I have already told you. The younger served 12 months during Desert Storm.

NEITHER OF THEM COME ACROSS AS THE COMPLETE SUCKER YOU DO.

Any respectI had of you before you managed to destroy with insolent bullshit "its as I say because I say it"
Your a complete fraud, and I even have my doubts of any service you claim to have made,

You wear you claimed service like a badge to be a total asshole. Its doesn't work that way snoc, Learn to deal with it.

[SnoC653]

You haven't retired, that's your major fucking hang up. You spent your entire life kissing the ass of those above, and DEMANDED the same from those below you. YOU have ALWAYS had a distaste and looked down on ANYBODY that didn't serve and always will. Well FUCL YOU SNOC, and the Humvee you drove in on.
The one up side to never have been in the military is, YOUR FUCKING WORD HAS NO BEARING ON CIVILAINS AT ALL. Serving does not make you one bit superior as you like to think. I have 2 bothers who served, one for over 10 years in Nam as I have already told you. The younger served 12 months during Desert Storm.

NEITHER OF THEM COME ACROSS AS THE COMPLETE SUCKER YOU DO.

Any respectI had of you before you managed to destroy with insolent bullshit "its as I say because I say it"
Your a complete fraud, and I even have my doubts of any service you claim to have made,

You wear you claimed service like a badge to be a total asshole. Its doesn't work that way snoc, Learn to deal with it.

Yet consistanly you are the one bringing up my military service, of which you know nothing about what I did or didn't do. But since you're a legend in your own mind and you make up answers to things you are clueless about, you pretend to know all about me. You should stick to telling people how to get someone else to do the dangerous stuff, since that's what you're best at.

And don't worry, 2 out of 3 isn't bad. I'm sure your parents did the best they could to teach all three of you how to be men. By the way, who have you ever spoken to that served above me or below me? Or should we chaulk that up to more of your made up lies?

[ogshotgun]

QUOTE=ogshotgun;109335]snoc is a fn idiot lol.. probably got a dishonorable discharge from having semen in his bowels !!!
also aim the prop and shaft guy on the team ,,, your a idiot,, mascots ? wasn't that your job in the air force is to pose as a pilot ???
snoc 20 years i served in the us army retired with full pension,,the guard is a reserve and i only i opted to start at the beginning again dumb ass not because you blow every one in the air force isn't my problem , i still serve my country!!! what do you do for your country ? collect welfare ? what rank were you i saw a e5 on your uniform lmao
every part in my boat is completely new or refurbished , because i didn't change the strut angle or drive doesn't mean the parts aren't new or i don't have the money ,,, want to play big bank takes small bank ????
how many deployments have you had ? and going from base to base on a bus tour isn't a deployment actual war time deployments to hot zones!!Quote of the day by Dianne Feinstein........

Dianne Feinstein: "All vets are mentally ill in some way and government should prevent them from owning firearms."

Yep, - she really said it on Thursday in a meeting in front of the Senate Judiciary Committee... and the quote below from the LA Times is priceless. Sometimes even the L.A. Times gets it right.

Kurt Nimmo: "Senator Feinstein insults all U.S. Veterans as she flays about in a vain attempt to save her anti-firearms bill."

hell never finish his boat ever because of several reason
wife controls the bitch snoc
wife has 0 confidence in his abilities and won't let him work on the boat
he has no clue what he fn speaks
he can't with a one man team lol

excuse after excuse after excuse after bs

here are a few of my deployments 39055390573905839060

and i am also a combat medic 39061

i had a encounter with a air force helicopter pilot i fn held at gun point because he was trying to leave my squad behind because he heard small arm fire !!
Speaking of idiots, where did anyone say I was in the Air Farce. I retired title 10 from the Army with 22 yes active and 7 reserve. And I've had 3 combat tours. You should have recognized the air medal you get for combat flight duty. I also have about 13 combat patches I'm authorized to wear including both the 1 Mar Div and 2 Mar Div patches. And as a sapper team leader I have a CAB to go with them. You can figure out how an E5 was wearing senior aviator wings. And are you claiming to be a combat medic or a combat lifesaver? Huge difference.

So are you saying you started as an E1 in the guard? If so you are either an idiot or a liar.

And for those following along at home: 2LT (2yrs), 1LT (2yrs), CPT (6 yrs), MAJ (6 yrs) = 16 yrs and should be promoted to LTC. The only way to be out as a MAJ is to be non select for promotion twice and manage to sqeak in an 18 yr lock to retire at 20. How am I doing speedy?

Some day you'll learn not to start a pissing contest unless you don't mind getting pissed on yourself.[/QUOTE]

Yes i took the Guard from the beginning, yes a combat medic asshole, and why no LTC no open slots, and you yourself posted a picture in air force uniform now your in the army bull shit after bullshit...with you no same story twice, typical of a Snoc and was that your air handle Sno because they knew you were a fn snow job ... and your promotion scale is a fn joke asshole what about i started the army as a private worked my through every rank including CWO-CW4 so get a fn grip wannabe! And you your self said you were a helicopter in the air force idiot get it straight

[ogshotgun]

You haven't retired, that's your major fucking hang up. You spent your entire life kissing the ass of those above, and DEMANDED the same from those below you. YOU have ALWAYS had a distaste and looked down on ANYBODY that didn't serve and always will. Well FUCL YOU SNOC, and the Humvee you drove in on.
The one up side to never have been in the military is, YOUR FUCKING WORD HAS NO BEARING ON CIVILAINS AT ALL. Serving does not make you one bit superior as you like to think. I have 2 bothers who served, one for over 10 years in Nam as I have already told you. The younger served 12 months during Desert Storm.

NEITHER OF THEM COME ACROSS AS THE COMPLETE SUCKER YOU DO.

Any respectI had of you before you managed to destroy with insolent bullshit "its as I say because I say it"
Your a complete fraud, and I even have my doubts of any service you claim to have made,

You wear you claimed service like a badge to be a total asshole. Its doesn't work that way snoc, Learn to deal with it.
fully agree bob , i was forced to show my cards he talks a lot but i have the patches and the letters to endorse each and every one .

[SnoC653]

Yes i took the Guard from the beginning, yes a combat medic asshole, and why no LTC no open slots, and you yourself posted a picture in air force uniform now your in the army bull shit after bullshit...with you no same story twice, typical of a Snoc and was that your air handle Sno because they knew you were a fn snow job ... and your promotion scale is a fn joke asshole what about i started the army as a private worked my through every rank including CWO-CW4 so get a fn grip wannabe! And you your self said you were a helicopter in the air force idiot get it straight

You sir are a liar! You've never seen a picture of me in an Air Force uniform, as I've never ever worn an air force uniform. Warrant Officer ranks are WO1 THRU CW5. If you were a Major eligible for promotion, you have a Masters degree. With even a bachelor's degree you come into the guard as an E3. So if you came in as an E1 what happened? No E3 slots either? And be honest, by no slots you mean none for you. You were non select. Others in your year group got promoted, just not you. As for this combat medic BS, you need to prove that one. They haven't been letting medics reclassify due the shortage of medics. You said you are a MP. So which are you?

I can show pictures of patches all day. You posted an Airborne combat flash, a sniper flash, and now you claim to be a combat medic. You are talented. What did you do, shoot them, then jump in to try and save them? And since they don't have officer snipers or medics you did all that since you enlisted in the guard? Right.... And after 20 plus years of alleged Army service, you can't identify an Army uniform? You claim you work on an AF base and you don't know what AF E5 rank looks like? Its painfully obvious that you wouldn't know the truth if you stepped in it.

And show me the letter that authorizes you to wear a sniper flash over your combat patch. This I have to see.

[ogshotgun]

39285
You sir are a liar! You've never seen a picture of me in an Air Force uniform, as I've never ever worn an air force uniform. Warrant Officer ranks are WO1 THRU CW5. If you were a Major eligible for promotion, you have a Masters degree. With even a bachelor's degree you come into the guard as an E3. So if you came in as an E1 what happened? No E3 slots either? And be honest, by no slots you mean none for you. You were non select. Others in your year group got promoted, just not you. As for this combat medic BS, you need to prove that one. They haven't been letting medics reclassify due the shortage of medics. You said you are a MP. So which are you?

I can show pictures of patches all day. You posted an Airborne combat flash, a sniper flash, and now you claim to be a combat medic. You are talented. What did you do, shoot them, then jump in to try and save them? And since they don't have officer snipers or medics you did all that since you enlisted in the guard? Right.... And after 20 plus years of alleged Army service, you can't identify an Army uniform? You claim you work on an AF base and you don't know what AF E5 rank looks like? Its painfully obvious that you wouldn't know the truth if you stepped in it.

And show me the letter that authorizes you to wear a sniper flash over your combat patch. This I have to see.

Iam all of the above and yes started the guard as a E3, PFC
no deployment in guard smart guy

this was all through my 20 years in Big ARMY

its a JFTB joint force truing base and i saw your upside stripes of AIR FORCE idiot
got my sniper as SSG
got my airborne as FSG
Went to ARMY MEDIC school for a total of 4 years to be a trained combat medic.. the reason for that was because the AIRFORCE are pusses and have left myself and my squad behind with wounded i wanted to be able to save my own men !!!
didn't have a CW5 got promoted , and if you ever did any real time

AF E5 rank looks like you just said you were ARMY why would you have a AF E5 = bull shit AF is air force asshole keep your story straight...

and FYI the last two times KBOATS tested at Irvine i was the fn Medic there so they could practice ask KIP BROWN who he saw as soon as he was out of the drink!! Guarantee it wasn't you asshole ..

now snoc go f yourself!!

[ogshotgun]

39285

Iam all of the above and yes started the guard as a E3, PFC
no deployment in guard smart guy

this was all through my 20 years in Big ARMY

its a JFTB joint force truing base and i saw your upside stripes of AIR FORCE idiot
got my sniper as SSG
got my airborne as FSG
Went to ARMY MEDIC school for a total of 4 years to be a trained combat medic.. the reason for that was because the AIRFORCE are pusses and have left myself and my squad behind with wounded i wanted to be able to save my own men !!!
didn't have a CW5 got promoted , and if you ever did any real time

AF E5 rank looks like you just said you were ARMY why would you have a AF E5 = bull shit AF is air force asshole keep your story straight...

and FYI the last two times KBOATS tested at Irvine i was the fn Medic there so they could practice ask KIP BROWN who he saw as soon as he was out of the drink!! Guarantee it wasn't you asshole ..

now snoc go f yourself!!

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[SnoC653]

39285

Iam all of the above and yes started the guard as a E3, PFC
no deployment in guard smart guy

this was all through my 20 years in Big ARMY

its a JFTB joint force truing base and i saw your upside stripes of AIR FORCE idiot
got my sniper as SSG
got my airborne as FSG
Went to ARMY MEDIC school for a total of 4 years to be a trained combat medic.. the reason for that was because the AIRFORCE are pusses and have left myself and my squad behind with wounded i wanted to be able to save my own men !!!
didn't have a CW5 got promoted , and if you ever did any real time

AF E5 rank looks like you just said you were ARMY why would you have a AF E5 = bull shit AF is air force asshole keep your story straight...

and FYI the last two times KBOATS tested at Irvine i was the fn Medic there so they could practice ask KIP BROWN who he saw as soon as he was out of the drink!! Guarantee it wasn't you asshole ..

now snoc go f yourself!!

You are as fake as the day is long. The medic course is not 4yrs. You were never a warant, and since you don't know that AF E5 is 4 down while Army E5 is 3 up, I doubt you even work on an AF base. Just because you say you are a medic and people believe you doesn't make you one. And the AF never leaves us behind because they are never in front of us. And when we are at the front they aren't in charge. Totally clueless, aren't you. Here's a freebie, what happens if your commander finds out you have lied about your military service?

Now you want us to believe you made it to CW4 after being an E8 and still had time to make Major all in 20 years. I've seen some tall tales from people about fictitious military service, but this is a record. And post up that picture of me in an AF uniform. Then explain what makes it an AF uniform. And since we had MW5s in the first golf war, you've been caught in another lie.

So what was your warrant MOS? And since medics are enlisted and there is no way you were a medic as an officer and medic skills parish if you don't use them, how are you a qualified anything now? Nevermind, when you lie about it it never expires.

[gn7]

Typical snoc

[SnoC653]

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You can't even get this right. It doesn't hide your posts for me to see. A fake and an idiot. There really is no end to stupid, you just keep topping yourself.

[SnoC653]

Typical snoc

You got a real winner swinging from your sac there. You want to take a stab at showing any post where I ever said I was in the Air Force or show this picture of me in an AF uniform? Come on, little boob needs big boob's help. :lmao1:

[SnoC653]

This has turned into an EPIC FAIL.......

This is reminiscent of the Hot Boat Forum of old.

[ogshotgun]

Want to talk about prop shafts on a tfh ?
I have learned a lot on them

[JusTrouble]

I was learning stuff when this thread started but that was soooo long ago
Un-Subscribed

[FLATS ONLY]

The 2 most recomended and used shaft materials are Aquamet 22 and K Monel. In high HP boats I will only use K Monel. In my DiMarco 21 with a projected 2500 HP it will be getting an 11/8" shaft of K Monel. With the source of these materials coming into play because of all the cheap shit coming out of China, you have to be extremely dilligent when sourcing a supplier. At this year's Enduro there were 4 propshaft failures all new shafts and all from the same supplier. 3 were material failures and 1 was caused by a thrown propshaft blade. All were 1" Aquamet 22 shafts. There are only 2 K Monel manufactures and/or distributors in the US and their base material is sourced from China. The GOOD K Monel shafts come from Italy and are made totally in Italy but are very pricy at about 1800.00 for a cruiser length shaft. Cheap really if you are running a Grose prop!!!! Whip struts, forget about it! Drag boats, 1" shaft, K Monel if you love you're prop. BAF, BAH,BFH 11/4" at least K Monel. I had a strut failure in my DiMarco 21' going 100-mph with an 11/8" K Monel shaft that was off of one of Sonny's race boats orignally and after about 15 years running it. It tried real hard to router it's way thru the bottom of the boat but got everything under control and idiled the boat about 2 miles back to the ramp on the Delta. That shaft was only bent from the strut end back and I still use it today to bore propshaft holes in the bottom of new boats and the prop suffered no damage whatsoever!!!!!!! My 2 fingers are tired again, time to move on1 They were not all failure of material. Installing propellers & making correct keys for each prop is what's important. Installing the propeller correctly is where it's at.

[gn7]

They were not all failure of material. Installing propellers & making correct keys for each prop is what's important. Installing the propeller correctly is where it's at.

I heard as well that Gary H shaft failed due to the prop not being installed properly. However, Gary did fail a shaft the year before towards the end of the race. You don't go that long with that kind of power with a prop installed incorrectly. That said, there is ALOT to be said about the fitment of a prop on the shaft. If the prop is too dependent on the key to control rotation, it is going to be more prone to failure at the shaft, and even the prop hub than if the taper takes the brunt of the load.
Husky motorcycles for decades use a tapered shaft with no key for the front sprocket. You could break chains, blow clutches and transmissions, with all the hammering of a motocross or desert race and never move that sprocket on that tiny ass shaft. Get wrong, the shaft would be a scored POS in no time.
Way too many people over look the benefits of lapping a prop to the shaft too greatly increase the holding power of the taper, and get the load off the key.
The Bloodshot Schiada just had a shaft diameter not up to the task, as well as have may extended to far from the shaft in an effort to get to carry the nose.

I never bought into the idea the material was at fault. AQ22 has been used too long to blame it, unless someone could prove the material was something other than AQ22.
I will agree with Westeraero that improper machining methods can wreck havoc on the best material you can buy. If you start looking at the machining as being every bit as important as welding some exotic material, and you should, then you will become a little more conscience of how your shaft is made.
I have always got my shafts from Bob at Glenwood, and had excellent luck with them. I will give a lot of thought to where my next one is made.

Output shafts, prop shafts, and props have been the number one killer of the inboards in the Parker enduro since day one. In one year, it was 3 output shafts, including ours. There is one common thread in these boats that is overlooked as well. In a GN race the engine is primarily operated well above peak torque and deep into peak HP RPM. In the enduro, many of the engines are being operated too close to peak torque in a effort to reduce fuel, and "save" the engine. IMO, its a mistake.

[SnoC653]

They were not all failure of material. Installing propellers & making correct keys for each prop is what's important. Installing the propeller correctly is where it's at.

That makes a lot of sense. Where parts join and torque is transferred can easily become failure points. Improper fit would just increase those stresses.

The keyway concern was discussed but may be hard to find until HB cleans the thread up.

[HotWater]

They were not all failure of material. Installing propellers & making correct keys for each prop is what's important. Installing the propeller correctly is where it's at.

Maybe we can get this back on track.

Lapping the prop to the taper and making sure the prop seats on the taper the same depth with or without the key are the only things I know of for proper install. What are some other steps to be taken?

[gn7]

Maybe we can get this back on track.

Lapping the prop to the taper and making sure the prop seats on the taper the same depth with or without the key are the only things I know of for proper install. What are some other steps to be taken?

Once the machining is done, there not much you can do aside from lapping it. The main thing is trying to get maximum contact on the prop barrel, and some props are not machined the best, both in taper angle or surface finish. I've had to bypass props that the barrel was too wavy to get sufficient surface area and the barrel diameter was already bored to near max diameter

[ogshotgun]

Maybe we can get this back on track.

Lapping the prop to the taper and making sure the prop seats on the taper the same depth with or without the key are the only things I know of for proper install. What are some other steps to be taken?
on the TFH i help with , we lap the prop to shaft with 180 grit compound , till we achieve at least 80% plus contact , than we clean everything, make sure the keyway has room to move lengthwise a little , if its wedged solid it cracks the hub, just our experience, than we use red loctite and coat the shaft than install the washer, main nut torqued to 200, than jam nut at 125 pounds, after each pass the props and shafts come out , the prop is welded to the shaft and a real nightmare to get off,after that the process is done again , and again till we see tiny cracks starting to appear , than its junk, also new prop on new shaft never used with any other shafts there now a set. also on this boat we have a left and right , turning away from each other and the right prop seems to weld harder than the left prop.oh and they are Aquamet22

[Sharp shooter]

on the TFH i help with , we lap the prop to shaft with 180 grit compound , till we achieve at least 80% plus contact , than we clean everything, make sure the keyway has room to move lengthwise a little , if its wedged solid it cracks the hub, just our experience, than we use red loctite and coat the shaft than install the washer, main nut torqued to 200, than jam nut at 125 pounds, after each pass the props and shafts come out , the prop is welded to the shaft and a real nightmare to get off,after that the process is done again , and again till we see tiny cracks starting to appear , than its junk, also new prop on new shaft never used with any other shafts there now a set. also on this boat we have a left and right , turning away from each other and the right prop seems to weld harder than the left prop.oh and they are Aquamet22

Just curious, but how did you end up on the team and how long have you been helping them?

[gn7]

the right prop seems to weld harder than the left

That's interesting.

[gn7]

That and I thought the problem child boat was using those parabolic shaft ends and props.

I don't know that they are using them. "What A Tomato" is.

[ogshotgun]

Just curious, but how did you end up on the team and how long have you been helping them?

i have helped the team in all the local races , havasu, phoenix for last season and this season i started full time with the first race, there prop guy Charlie , has conflicts in his schedule, he will be training me at havasu and wheatland , after that i am on my own..hes the best teacher and so is eddie both highly professional and very detailed , just like my self lol

[ogshotgun]

That and I thought the problem child boat was using those parabolic shaft ends and props.

no never ran a polygonal shaft as far as what i was told always just a taper, but we have a set of that guys props mounted on a set of shafts, they don't have as much low end bite , but well see what pans out

[ogshotgun]

Oops, not parabolic, polygonal I think is what it's called.

when i spoke with Grose he said he has discontinued them after a short period too hard to match both surfaces

[ogshotgun]

That's interesting.

i don't have all the that much time with this new job , but from what i have seen after 20 passes the right is always harder to get off than the left .

[gn7]

And pretty much impossible to "lap" or improve once its done. Like when the Honda factory was running oval cylinders on the road race MCs. Flowed like the Hoover Dam for their size, but the machining was damn near impossible, and refinishing was horrendous.

[Sharp shooter]

i have helped the team in all the local races , havasu, phoenix for last season and this season i started full time with the first race, there prop guy Charlie , has conflicts in his schedule, he will be training me at havasu and wheatland , after that i am on my own..hes the best teacher and so is eddie both highly professional and very detailed , just like my self lol

So how did you end up getting on the team? Did you fill out an application or was your name picked out of a hat? :D

[ogshotgun]

So how did you end up getting on the team? Did you fill out an application or was your name picked out of a hat? :D
i worked for free for a few races as a internship so to speak to prove myself , was approached when stevie had his surgery as a possible bottom end man, the whole team really likes me , i guess it was a perfect fit and the right place at the right time, i would do it for free because i love racing..also unlike most people that want to help ...when they want to help and what they want to help with. i would show up in the morning do any thing that needed to be done and stayed till the trailer was packed . showed integrity went a long ways with the guys, one asked why do you work so hard for free, i replied I LOVE RACING BUDDY!!

[gn7]

i worked for free for a few races as a internship so to speak to prove myself , was approached when stevie had his surgery as a possible bottom end man, the whole team really likes me , i guess it was a perfect fit and the right place at the right time, i would do it for free because i love racing..also unlike most people that want to help ...when they want to help and what they want to help with. i would show up in the morning do any thing that needed to be done and stayed till the trailer was packed . showed integrity went a long ways with the guys, one asked why do you work so hard for free, i replied I LOVE RACING BUDDY!!

You are SOOOOOO full of shit. Love of racing. Don't make me laugh. You do it for the same reason anybody else would do it.

THE BITCHES

[ogshotgun]

You are SOOOOOO full of shit. Love of racing. Don't make me laugh. You do it for the same reason anybody else would do it.

THE BITCHES
you know i would agree but , there isn't that many bitches behind the ropes watching me do what i do lol i am the guy way in the back behind the swamp cooler with no glory, but i do go to the races for free and i do like the eye candy lol , i do love racing will help out any real racer if they ask its what i like doing , i would even help you if you need it , now someone else on here i would be busy at all times no matter what lmao

[ogshotgun]

You are SOOOOOO full of shit. Love of racing. Don't make me laugh. You do it for the same reason anybody else would do it.

THE BITCHES


the bitches all want the mascot lol you know the driver Madd Maxx

[FLATS ONLY]

Once the machining is done, there not much you can do aside from lapping it. The main thing is trying to get maximum contact on the prop barrel, and some props are not machined the best, both in taper angle or surface finish. I've had to bypass props that the barrel was too wavy to get sufficient surface area and the barrel diameter was already bored to near max diameter
Bingo !!! There are a lot of people that have really good luck with Propshafts 7/8.....1"...... 1 1/8 !! Super Stock, K-Boat & GN Boats. There are always going to be failures but they can be minimized with care & fitement !! I only bring up 7/8 because that's a challenge in its self.

[Propless]

Bingo !!! There are a lot of people that have really good luck with Propshafts 7/8.....1"...... 1 1/8 !! Super Stock, K-Boat & GN Boats. There are always going to be failures but they can be minimized with care & fitement !! I only bring up 7/8 because that's a challenge in its self.

Sense you brought it up, and sense this thread seems to back on track. Whats the thinking behind the 7/8" shaft ? Is it that its lighter (easier to spin up) or that its smaller and has less drag ? I only ask because the hardware (hardware from a SS boat) that came with my project included a 7/8" shaft. I wasn't planning to use it, just curious about how a race boat can get away with such a small shaft, and what advantage it would have. I cant imaging them running a smaller weaker shaft if there wasn't some kind of advantage to it.

[ogshotgun]

a pm someone just sent me lmao..." Why don't you just go prop less on these V-DRIVE boats would be much easier"

[ogshotgun]

Sense you brought it up, and sense this thread seems to back on track. Whats the thinking behind the 7/8" shaft ? Is it that its lighter (easier to spin up) or that its smaller and has less drag ? I only ask because the hardware (hardware from a SS boat) that came with my project included a 7/8" shaft. I wasn't planning to use it, just curious about how a race boat can get away with such a small shaft, and what advantage it would have. I cant imaging them running a smaller weaker shaft if there wasn't some kind of advantage to it.
My opinion on the 7/8" shafts were on a factory boat with a few hundred horsepower, and it costs too much to change everything to a larger shaft so its what they have and they try to make it work, thats my opinion aim sure GN7 will tell the rhyme or reason...BOB

[Propless]

My opinion on the 7/8" shafts were on a factory boat with a few hundred horsepower, and it costs too much to change everything to a larger shaft so its what they have and they try to make it work, thats my opinion aim sure GN7 will tell the rhyme or reason...BOB

Maybe he'll teach us both after his nap. This was no factory low hp set up, it was from a real SS boat. It uses an 8 deg Casale with a 1 1/8" output shaft, an adaptive 6 bolt coupler (1 1/8" to 7/8"), drop through strut with a 7/8" bushing, and a 1" prop. Looks like it was a 1" shaft that was turned down to 7/8" right in front of the prop.

[Propless]

Less rotating weight, like anything in racing equals free hp.



Didn't see your reply when I posted. That makes sense, but it sure seems like a risky place to try and save weight. Especially when they had a huge 1 3/8" shaft between the V-drive and the engine.

[Propless]

Another thing the smaller the diameter the more torsional twist allowed before failure. Only problem here is, too large of diameter swing equal more chance of a shaft to become a pretzel with any amount of side load or thrust.

So your saying with two shafts of equal material, the smaller shaft with allow more torsional twist before failure ? That's interesting, I wouldn't have thought of that.

[gn7]

Some what rotational mass, but they could always skirt much of that with a rifled drilled 1 or 1 1/8 shaft and actually be stronger.
Its the drag/lift of the larger shaft, including the larger strut. Not all of the teams use them, but bet your ass the top ones are. Its not a matter of some low "stock" HP thing. Just the expense and hassle of finding and /or having made 7/8 RH props makes it an overly expansive proposition.

Then you look at the size of the collection of props in Rankins trailer and the reality of it slams home. Knowing that each one of them has an extremely short life span makes it even more daunting.

I don't know how much shorter life the shaft is over a 1" shaft. They see less than 700 HP. How much worse is that than some heavy ass GNs kicking out 1000+ in rough water. And there a couple running 1" shafts with reasonable success.

But the cost of relatively short lived 7/8th props just scrub some lift and drag seems a little over the top. But I have talked to guys that have switched from 1" to 1 1/8 shafts in a heavy v bottom, and they swear they can tell the difference. So in a little flattie, who knows the real effect.

[Propless]

Yes, if everything stays linear.
ANY side load will ruin that.


Gun drill that shaft and now it's stronger torsionally and lighter, freeing up more hp.

That's interesting, and you made me go take a better look at my parts. I hadn't noticed it before (never actually looked) but the motor to V-drive shaft (1 3/8") is hollowed out. Its got a 7/8" hole down the center. I guess they really wanted to get every last 10th of a hp they could out of this thing.

[gn7]

Yes, if everything stays linear.
ANY side load will ruin that.

And it is amazing, but the so called "whip" of a twisted shaft is pretty much mythical IMO.
Look at a tiny ass drill bit in a drill press. You can press to the point the bit bows, but it doesn't whip. The bow stays pretty much put. AS Westernaero says, so long as the shaft doesn't experience any side loading, the smaller shaft will absorb more angular twist under the same load without failure, but for a lower number of cycles.

[Propless]

Some what rotational mass, but they could always skirt much of that with a rifled drilled 1 or 1 1/8 shaft and actually be stronger.
Its the drag/lift of the larger shaft, including the larger strut. Not all of the teams use them, but bet your ass the top ones are. Its not a matter of some low "stock" HP thing. Just the expense and hassle of finding and /or having made 7/8 RH props makes it an overly expansive proposition.

Then you look at the size of the collection of props in Rankins trailer and the reality of it slams home. Knowing that each one of them has an extremely short life span makes it even more daunting.

I don't know how much shorter life the shaft is over a 1" shaft. They see less than 700 HP. How much worse is that than some heavy ass GNs kicking out 1000+ in rough water. And there a couple running 1" shafts with reasonable success.

But the cost of relatively short lived 7/8th props just scrub some lift and drag seems a little over the top. But I have talked to guys that have switched from 1" to 1 1/8 shafts in a heavy v bottom, and they swear they can tell the difference. So in a little flattie, who knows the real effect.

Bob, have you ever seen or heard of a shaft like mine, 7/8" shaft but uses a 1" prop ? Looks like a 1" shaft that's been turned down to 7/8" from the props taper forward.

[gn7]

That's interesting, and you made me go take a better look at my parts. I hadn't noticed it before (never actually looked) but the motor to V-drive shaft (1 3/8") is hollowed out. Its got a 7/8" hole down the center. I guess they really wanted to get every last 10th of a hp they could out of this thing.

The rifle drilling can actually improve the torsional strength of the shaft by increasing the surface area exposed to the rotational stresses. High end crankshafts are drilled front to rear thru the main journals. Most dirt track/sprint car torsion bars are tubular.
The loss of a few ounce of rotational mass is the bonus. Keep in mind, the material in from the center of the shaft, and has much less effect on the "rotational mass" thing.

[Propless]

Do you have a pic of that?

Its the best I can do with my phone.

http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff97/propless/V-drive%20boat/IMG_20140427_230231_zps5ec86d8e.jpg (http://s239.photobucket.com/user/propless/media/V-drive%20boat/IMG_20140427_230231_zps5ec86d8e.jpg.html)

[gn7]

Do you have a pic of that?

Yeah I've seen them. I believe the use of 7/8 shafts may have started that way and evolved to include the prop itself, of for no other reason than prop availability. I imagine the grinding of the shaft was a pricey affair as well, but did make the prop hunt a little easier, and a little easier to dump unwanted/unused props.

[ogshotgun]

Chris Alston's web site used to have a nice little write up on the strength increase of gun drilled shafts. I don't know if it's still there I haven't been on his site in years but it is a very strait forward easy to understand read.
i agree that the gun drilled is stronger i don't know why but in my car i had summer brothers solid axles with 33 splines i broke one , than broke another , went back to the vendor really upset they traded me for a gun drilled axle i haven't broke that one yet and its been years...

[ogshotgun]

Yeah I've seen them. I believe the use of 7/8 shafts may have started that way and evolved to include the prop itself, of for no other reason than prop availability. I imagine the grinding of the shaft was a pricey affair as well, but did make the prop hunt a little easier, and a little easier to dump unwanted/unused props.

i called my go to guy and showed him the picture you posted he said they tried that years ago to reduce rotating weight and easier to find props .. i asked how did it work out , he laughed and said i crashed the boat couldn't tell you.. lol

[Propless]

Ok, and for the big question.

Should I even consider staying with that shaft in a lake use boat ? Assuming it checks out good. Or just go through the work to step up to a 1" shaft now before the strut goes back in. Changing to a 1" would require a new (or modifying) the coupler, and possibly a new strut (I haven't measured the strut barrel yet to see if a 1" bushing will fit). I could see that shaft being very expensive to duplicate if anything ever happens to it in the future.

I don't plan on running the blower anymore so hp should be around 600, and the boat is fairly light (small stringer) Daytona flat.

[Propless]

i called my go to guy and showed him the picture you posted he said they tried that years ago to reduce rotating weight and easier to find props .. i asked how did it work out , he laughed and said i crashed the boat couldn't tell you.. lol

This probably the stuff from that boat. Story is these parts came from the SS 44 boat that flipped at Long Beach in 07.

[HotWater]

I'd say the 7/8" shaft is to reduce drag and lift. Bottom work and underwater gear in ss is a big tuning area. Some use a physically smaller strut also. Proplove, think about the affect on the boat that little stick stuck to the cav plate fin made. Shit can that shaft.

[Propless]

I'd say the 7/8" shaft is to reduce drag and lift. Bottom work and underwater gear in ss is a big tuning area. Some use a physically smaller strut also. Propless, think about the affect on the boat that little stick stuck to the cav plate fin made. Shit can that shaft.

Quiet, you just want me to part it out (not going to happen) so you can have the 8 deg. :moon:

[HotWater]

Quiet, you just want me to part it out (not going to happen) so you can have the 8 deg. :moon:

I've got a new plan, I might need a parallel shaft casale.

[white tortilla]

Sense you brought it up, and sense this thread seems to back on track. Whats the thinking behind the 7/8" shaft ? Is it that its lighter (easier to spin up) or that its smaller and has less drag ? I only ask because the hardware (hardware from a SS boat) that came with my project included a 7/8" shaft. I wasn't planning to use it, just curious about how a race boat can get away with such a small shaft, and what advantage it would have. I cant imaging them running a smaller weaker shaft if there wasn't some kind of advantage to it.

simply put a 7/8 shaft will pull 4-5 mph on a SS than a 1"

[Propless]

simply put a 7/8 shaft will pull 4-5 mph on a SS than a 1"

WOW that's a big difference ! Sometimes its hard to remember just how much every little thing can add up to.

[ogshotgun]

This probably the stuff from that boat. Story is these parts came from the SS 44 boat that flipped at Long Beach in 07.ill check into that lol

[ogshotgun]

simply put a 7/8 shaft will pull 4-5 mph on a SS than a 1"

so does a 16' boat

[gn7]

so does a 16' boat

Maybe, but keeping it set and hammered becomes more of a challenge.

[HotWater]

so does a 16' boat
I've seen pictures of a 16' Biesemeyer flat mold. I'd like to play with one of those using a hopped up sbc.

[sangerdan]

Something to consider when dealing with centerless ground stock is you can't determine the roundness with a set of mics. The process of centerless grinding can produce a shaft out of round way beyond the size tolerance and it will mic good. Every subsequent machining process will be affected by that . If the shaft mics in size and wont fit your coupler this would be an indication. You either have to deal with people and material you really trust or invest in tools to verify it yourself.

[sangerdan]

Separately from the above , centerless grinding is a primarily a high production process , setup and the guides for doing a step grinding from 1" to 7/8 would be a relatively pricey thing and finding a shop to do one-off stuff on a c-less would be difficult.

[gn7]

Separately from the above , centerless grinding is a primarily a high production process , setup and the guides for doing a step grinding from 1" to 7/8 would be a relatively pricey thing and finding a shop to do one-off stuff on a c-less would be difficult.

The 2 shafts I have seen that have reduced diameter, both ends were still 1", and only the area was reduced, with a very generous fillet. So what goes on inbetween is of little concern provided it is reasonably centered between the 2 original areas. I also wouldn't want to bet they were ground, that was an assumption I my part. They could possibly have been reduced on a lath and "polished" Not sure the accuracy of reduction is all the critical. Even if it had to be done by flipping the shaft in the lath due to length, I don't see what it would matter.

The diameter accuracy of the prop shafts is evidently a lot less critical than I would have thought just a few years ago. Because all the shafts I have ever seen were nothing more than mill roll. I have a 17-4 shaft that actually has a very slight depression groove the length of the shaft almost like you would see in welded tubing, and was in service as a multi championship ski boat in the 60s. The groove is kind of handy because you see any twist that might occur in the shaft just by looking at it. Its still pretty much dead straight.

[sangerdan]

The poster mentions having to enlarge his coupler to 1" so I guess I assumed only the prop end was at 1" ,hence what I said about the expense. Not looking to endure the wrath of anyone but I doubt any prop shaft is just mill finish without being either turned or preferably ground. Part of the finish machining process is to get rid of the surface imperfections and such from the mill.

[sangerdan]

Or if you have crush grinding on the c-less you reduce the diameter in increments and let it outfeed. Turning on its own diameter will lessen the chance of leaving the prop end too far out of whack. C-less will leave far fewer surface imperfections due to the actual cutting process and leave fewer areas for stress risers. I would imagine it was turned to reduce diameter, I guess I was looking at the way I would have done it for myself. If you're hanging a $2k prop on the end of a shaft this long do want everything leaning your way of is everything good enough. I'm not trying to stir the pot but most guys on these forums are not dealing with 250 horse 45 mph boats , spend 10k on polishing and powdercoat and have your prop shaft touched up on the neighbors 10" SouthBend lathe. Looking only to maybe spread a little knowledge and get some thinking going.

[SnoC653]

I'm with you there. I've been trying to get the understanding of these materials out there.
I think I've brought this up a couple times too but i don't know if anyone is understanding this idea:
1. If the "run out" of the taper is not held to a very close tolerance there will be a whipping effect of the prop with one ear pushing harder than the other, in turn loading one side of the shaft.
2. Or if both ears are not delivering equal forward thrust then the shaft is feeling the same load.
The second is why I like the idea of a CNC prop. This manufacturing process will give you the closest to each ear supplying equal forward thrust.

While it is always good to eliminate uneven loading, the prop will still create uneven thrust. Disturbances in the water flow from the strut, from compression against the hull, and especially the prop leaving and reentering the water all generate uneven loads.

As for leaving the shaft 1" at the ends, that would require a 1" strut and shaft log. It would seem that more gain would be achieved by reducing the contact area in these areas. I had a discussion about this recently when we were either turning down a 440 crank or boring the journals in the 400 block.

[sangerdan]

I like the idea of a nc'ed prop BUT in an ideal world it is the best solution. As someone who actually had a machine shop and was killed by the "digitizing" thing, the work will go overseas once that is done. Anyone with a co-ordinate machine can digitize; punch the button and you can have the code spit out the other end and onto your nc. No matter what you think you know about your product when some overseas company puts up an nc prop on Ebay your business is going in the shitter. Shops in the Phillipines were selling a piece on our shores for less than I could buy aluminum by the pound, before I touched it. If the Grose's are prop people and can do what Kindsvater or the other know and can do something is saved. If not hello foreign props. "Be careful what you wish for" means more today than ever.

[HB Vic]

I'm with you there. I've been trying to get the understanding of these materials out there.
I think I've brought this up a couple times too but i don't know if anyone is understanding this idea:
1. If the "run out" of the taper is not held to a very close tolerance there will be a whipping effect of the prop with one ear pushing harder than the other, in turn loading one side of the shaft.
2. Or if both ears are not delivering equal forward thrust then the shaft is feeling the same load.
The second is why I like the idea of a CNC prop. This manufacturing process will give you the closest to each ear supplying equal forward thrust.

Obviously the closer to perfect you can make anything the better off you'll be. But as you know, perfection isn't cheap. And since you're dealing with variables to begin with, does it really matter that much? Boats turn (normally lol) so that affects the loading on the prop. I'm sure the water conditions will also affect it.

The mass of such a small (relatively) prop spinning at fairly reasonable rpm most of the time, isn't all that great. If the prop was 10' in diameter and weighed 10,000lbs different story.

Not saying its ok to be sloppy, just saying perfection probably isn't necessary for 99% of the boats out there.

[ogshotgun]

Maybe, but keeping it set and hammered becomes more of a challenge.
I agree John Hart with dirty sanchez does pretty good in his ..

[sangerdan]

I need to clarify my previous post. I am a geographic undesirable in most of these talks : I don't know any of these people because I'm 2000 miles away. What usually gets lost is the craftsmanship and knowledge of the details when a product is nc'd. If I bought a prop that didn't quite work and needed it tweeked will it still fit the fixturing on the machine or will the shop that machined it have the ability to transform my arm waving and gesturing and non-tech words into what I need. I'll bet the old prop masters could, and that would be a shame to lose for the repeatability of an nc prop. When its a week between races and you want to try XorY don't call Manila or Bejing or increasingly HoChiMihn City or Jakarta.

[gn7]

This is what a 100% unfinished bar looks like. Your strut bushing would last about 1 revolution.
39562

You could very well be dead on. I just know that I have never seen a shaft that had anything approaching the surface finish or the diameter accuracy of a crankshaft or even a rocker shaft from something like a FE or BB Mopar. Not saying it looked like hot rolled bar, just not something that looked "tight tolerance"

[HB Vic]

Yeah I agree, but it seems everyone spends endless amounts of time and money on the perfect engine and then almost no thought is put into that last line of propulsion.
But what is a reasonable RPM? If a flatty is running 7000 engine RPM with 50% overdriven in the v-drive the prop speed is 10,500 RPM. Would you run an out of balance, or out of round, or non concentric tool in one of your spindles at that speed? You know your spindle bearing wouldn't last very long.

Knowingly, no. But how often will that boat see 10,500? Just saying perfection probably isn't necessary. But damn close would be much better :D

[sangerdan]

Centerless ground finish on the size and material of a rocker shaft is easy. Grinding or machining high nickel, chrome and some other alloys is a bitch to do period. Getting a finish that doesn't look like a plowed field is either a lot of work or a lot of very specific experience. Rocker shafts are heat treated and not "gummy" like these shaft materials.

[HB Vic]

Pretty sure most the circle boats are seeing those RPM's at the prop most of the time. Not engine RPM, prop shaft RPM. Don't most of them run 50 over or somewhere close to it. Where's Bob?

It would be interesting to see what those shafts do in a hard turn :D

[sangerdan]

I have an honest question that I'd like some input on. Has anyone ever done the prop end in splines like a drag axle and splined the prop. I don't know that that interference fit of a matched taper could be duplicated for lack of runout. Pro stock drag axles are 300m material which is in the same family of materials as a prop shaft. Gundrill a maybe slightly larger diameter than current shafts for strength and??? Broaching splines can be pretty accurate. Just a question keep the stones thrown on the small side!

[sangerdan]

Yeah I get it. But when you're talking about a 3-d surface like these props have, I feel the best way to make them is with CNC machines. Both sides come out equal. Now is it as critical with a 3, 4 or 5 blade? Hell no, they'll have an easier time balance themselves out. And as far as being able to tweek or rework a prop on a CNC, absolutely! And if the programmer is really good it can be done in a fraction of the time than doing it by hand. You can twist and tweek surface profiles anywhere you want on a CAD.

But theer has to be material to work with to change the profile on a cnc but I thought some props ears were worked, call it bending if that is correct. I guess my point was, I hope that knowledge isn't lost or does the guy making the cnc prop retain the knowledge to make the tweek . If I have prop"A" and say I need more lift for example who does he call to find out what program to run to get that.

[gn7]

Yeah I get it. But when you're talking about a 3-d surface like these props have, I feel the best way to make them is with CNC machines. Both sides come out equal. Now is it as critical with a 3, 4 or 5 blade? Hell no, they'll have an easier time balance themselves out. And as far as being able to tweek or rework a prop on a CNC, absolutely! And if the programmer is really good it can be done in a fraction of the time than doing it by hand. You can twist and tweek surface profiles anywhere you want on a CAD.

Exactly. No hand shaped prop has two identical ears. let alone identical to another prop. Even as good as CNC is, it is still no guarantee. Tom Black of Precision learned long ago that just the smallest difference in batch material, and HEAT TREAT!! made a huge difference.
We have reworked 2 Hill 17-4 SS props to 99% of our original Hill prop that finally developed crack after have been in service as both a GN and K prop and a few championships under 3 different boats starting in 1988. We had the "twin" to it for awhile that had its own history. Remarkably, both props gave up the ghost on the same weekend at Parker. The other rip the ear off at 100 plus, our revealed a crack after Sat races.

In all the testing and mods of a dozen props, we have finally come to the conclusion that for us to get the same speed and handling from a steel prop is going to require some more testing and or some changes to the boat itself. We just could never get to where we wanted to be with a steel prop. Close, but close only works for back up props, or use in the endure, or as a river/lake prop, which is exactly what they are used for right.

Its the one thing that makes me hesitant to pay to have the prop digitally mapped, and made. I don't see the SS shape working correctly in a 4330 prop

[sangerdan]

GN brought up a good additional point about materials. If someone has a basket full of forgings of a certain material "A" what good does mapping a prop do when I have a prop from another material "B". Even Bobs17-4 prop could have been heat treated about 6 different ways. I'll bet there has been more recent engineering on sails than on the drive line of our boats. How does one guys shaft bushing go away in months and another goes years. can't all be owner error. The tolerance build-up on some setups might be beyond belief.

[gn7]

Pretty sure most the circle boats are seeing those RPM's at the prop most of the time. Not engine RPM, prop shaft RPM. Don't most of them run 50 over or somewhere close to it. Where's Bob?


It would be interesting to see what those shafts do in a hard turn :D


I asked that same question and I think these guys are concerned with the larger shaft diameter creating more drag in the water.


But theer has to be material to work with to change the profile on a cnc but I thought some props ears were worked, call it bending if that is correct. I guess my point was, I hope that knowledge isn't lost or does the guy making the cnc prop retain the knowledge to make the tweek . If I have prop"A" and say I need more lift for example who does he call to find out what program to run to get that.


Well I guess if someone don't start doing it soon then all V-drive boaters will be without props soon. Why does every other motor sport advance and change for the better and the v-drive industry sit stagnate? Because most of these guys want to keep doing things the same old way.

Circle boats are hard on the props and shafts because they are constantly cycled between max torque and max HP. If you want to break something on the dyno, you do just that. There is a video on You Tube of Mercury testing the 1350 4 cam and that's exactly what they do in the video.
What a shaft does in a turn is a very interesting thought, and assure you, its not pretty. But then anytime the boat exposes the shaft and lands has a similar effect, just upward.
Flats are much worse the GNs because the GNs tend to track the turns more than the flats. Those suckers do some slipping.

Asking how often the shaft sees max RPM is like asking how often it wins. If it isn't hitting max Rs every lap, it isn't winning.
Only the Ks are running gears in the 50s. Pros and some SS in the high 20s low 30s, GNs pretty much the same.

As for knowledgeable tuners......its a dying art form. Harold Kinsvater is tops, but is pretty much in semi retirement. None better than Gibbs in Havasu, but it VERY picky who he will do a v drive prop for. The guy that took over PB props up north I understand does some nice work, as well a guy I Texas, and Florida. My secret weapon guy is truly remarkable. He was doing the props for Ben Morrone's GN 305, and he made "tuned" them up a gaggle of props. He is willing to try anything just to see the results. He just likes working with a known combo he feels is repeatable, and a driver he feels can give him good imput. Bill and him just flat click.
His name is Brent and he goes by Props Works West on PB, and his claim to fame believe it not, is props for RC boats to the rich and famous, like Anton Brown, but he is looking to make a name in circle boat props. He has 4 championships under his belt to date, and he might be doing some work I am not privey to.
How you make a prop provide more or less lift is pretty much a known "shape" of the ear, or more accurately, the fore aft angle (rake)and location of the ear on the hub. Just as moving the whole shaft forward effects the nose lift, so does just moving the blade forward on the hub relatively speaking. Leaning the blade back as opposed to more straight up will raise the nose too.
Where things get really trickey is in the interface area between the blade and hub, and that's where our props get pretty strange. When SFV2RVR was suggesting that the prop under his Schiada would work reasonably well under my GN, he some what right. It would get it up and down the river, and blast across Havasu just fine. It could never be raced under my boat with any success. Been thru waaaay too many props to know that's never going to happen.
Had props that were 2-3 MPH faster, and handled like a kicked football. Ones that handled "reasonably" well, and 5-6 mph slower. And more props than you can imagine, including brand new props from Both Menkins, and Radience, that did nothing right.

[SnoC653]

I think too much relevance is being placed on uneven trust from the prop ears. Hydro's run the same basic shafts (materials and dimensions) and one ear is providing all of the thrust while the other is out of the water providing zero thrust. What are they doing better than the flats?

[Propless]

I think too much relevance is being placed on uneven trust from the prop ears. Hydro's run the same basic shafts (materials and dimensions) and one ear is providing all of the thrust while the other is out of the water providing zero thrust. What are they doing better than the flats?

I have theory on that. The hydro prop will still have a consistent load even though its not even. It would be a forward from the bottom force. Probably trying to bend the shaft up in the middle. But an uneven load from a prop that has different bite from each blade would have a different force on the shaft depending where the good biting blade was. Good blade on the bottom forces the shaft up, good blade at the left shaft forced right, good blade at the top shaft forced down, ect. I could imagine the shaft looking like a jump rope when it was under a load.
Just an opinion.

[gn7]

I have theory on that. The hydro prop will still have a consistent load even though its not even. It would be a forward from the bottom force. Probably trying to bend the shaft up in the middle. But an uneven load from a prop that has different bite from each blade would have a different force on the shaft depending where the good biting blade was. Good blade on the bottom forces the shaft up, good blade at the left shaft forced right, good blade at the top shaft forced down, ect. I could imagine the shaft looking like a jump rope when it was under a load.
Just an opinion.
Not even close. The prop is running off/on the whole time.
When the ONE blade is headed down, it is doing the vast majority of the work to the point it passes straight up and down. Then its doing progressively less, while the other is beginning to do progressively more. But when they are dead horiz, neither is doing shit. No prop is loaded and unloaded like a hydro prop, and its only worse the more power you put to it.
With the twin props, they are arranged 90* out of sync, and the forward thrust is relatively even, although still off and on per side during the run. The fact they are counter rotating helps immensely with the stability of the boat, and counters the "side walking"

You can see the on/off in the rooster tails. This is actually a mild case.

39619

[gn7]

Our #1 prop for 5 years had one ear 1/8 larger/longer from the hub than the other. Perfectly balanced, but the ears were different "lengths" and it never shook, or hurt a bushing in any boat it was run on in 25 years. If it doesn't shake, or hurt things, I don't sweat it.

HOWEVER, it still points out what I said OVER AND OVER, don't try to bullshit me with intellectual property for something you CANNOT reproduce.
If the dipshit can't get 2 ears right on the same fucking prop, how can the dumbass claim anybody copied shit.

Don't get me started again whos IP the tuning of a prop belongs to.

[Propless]

Not even close. The prop is running off/on the whole time.
When the ONE blade is headed down, it is doing the vast majority of the work to the point it passes straight up and down. Then its doing progressively less, while the other is beginning to do progressively more. But when they are dead horiz, neither is doing shit. No prop is loaded and unloaded like a hydro prop, and its only worse the more power you put to it.
With the twin props, they are arranged 90* out of sync, and the forward thrust is relatively even, although still off and on per side during the run. The fact they are counter rotating helps immensely with the stability of the boat, and counters the "side walking"

You can see the on/off in the rooster tails. This is actually a mild case.

39619

Ok but that doesn't make me wrong. The hydro prop is still doing the majority of its work in a bottom forward way, whether its consistent or pulsed. So it should force/flex the shaft in one direction, right ?

And a flatbottom or V hull prop (fully submerged) that had better bite/greater thrust on one blade would be creating a greater force at whatever position the strongest biting blade was positioned. Trying to whip the shaft around like a jump rope.

And you know I only ask because I love to learn. But just because your prop and one blade/ear 1/8" longer, doesn't mean it had an unbalanced amount of thrust from each blade. I would guess that the number of variables that determine the actual thrust from a blade/ear are greater than I could even imagine. So I'm sure that even though yours had one ear longer, it still could have had equal thrust from each ear, right ?

[ogshotgun]

Knowingly, no. But how often will that boat see 10,500? Just saying perfection probably isn't necessary. But damn close would be much better :D
i have 29s in my box and run 7500 rpm all the tme .

[ogshotgun]

Not even close. The prop is running off/on the whole time.
When the ONE blade is headed down, it is doing the vast majority of the work to the point it passes straight up and down. Then its doing progressively less, while the other is beginning to do progressively more. But when they are dead horiz, neither is doing shit. No prop is loaded and unloaded like a hydro prop, and its only worse the more power you put to it.
With the twin props, they are arranged 90* out of sync, and the forward thrust is relatively even, although still off and on per side during the run. The fact they are counter rotating helps immensely with the stability of the boat, and counters the "side walking"

You can see the on/off in the rooster tails. This is actually a mild case.

39619

don't know about 90* out of sync we ratchet ours till there at the same spot left and right , have never had one horizontal and the other vertical.

[HotWater]

i have 29s in my box and run 7500 rpm all the tme .

What's the pitch on your prop?

[ogshotgun]

What's the pitch on your prop?
15.5 ........ and its steel

[HotWater]

15.5 ........ and its steel

How much hp?

[ogshotgun]

How much hp?
when the motor was new it pulled 990 on the dyno

could use more gear, but with the casale case you have to remove the water jackets , and i run my boat on the lake and rivers.

on the tfh we turn the props over 20,000 rpm

[HotWater]

when the motor was new it pulled 990 on the dyno

could use more gear, but with the casale case you have to remove the water jackets , and i run my boat on the lake and rivers.

on the tfh we turn the props over 20,000 rpm
990hp is pretty good! I think a regular casale case can take about 37's with water jackets.

[ogshotgun]

39623
990hp is pretty good! I think a regular casale case can take about 37's with water jackets.
according to andy at casale 29 is all you can get , before you remove the water jacket he rebuilt mine when i did the motor and that was the max gear before it hits the case
if i cut the case it will run to hot on a river lake boat

see the 29s almost touch the water jacket

[HotWater]

39623
according to andy at casale 29 is all you can get , before you remove the water jacket he rebuilt mine when i did the motor and that was the max gear before it hits the case
if i cut the case it will run to hot on a river lake boat

see the 29s almost touch the water jacket
How fast does your boat go?

[gn7]

don't know about 90* out of sync we ratchet ours till there at the same spot left and right , have never had one horizontal and the other vertical.

Not every body is running that way.
http://www.toxicrocket.com/html/w-drive.html

[ogshotgun]

Not every body is running that way.
http://www.toxicrocket.com/html/w-drive.html

maybe why its the worlds fastest and quickest drag boat , and toxic rocket isn't.

[ogshotgun]

How fast does your boat go?

its a heavy boat , it runs in the mid 90's

[ogshotgun]

Not every body is running that way.
http://www.toxicrocket.com/html/w-drive.html
maybe i missed something both of the pictures were in sync, both tips hitting the water at the same time , just like the last picture is in sync...

[ogshotgun]

I am probably wrong on this.
A hydro shaft never drags in the water so they can run huge shafts without drag
The vdrive or wdrive isn't way forward in the boat so the shaft is short, less spaghetti action going on.
A hydro prop has a shit pile more slip I believe also.
There's almost no boat touching the water, zero resistance on the prop and shaft, well not zero.
A hydro and a circle boat are apples and oranges.

yes apples and oranges
shaft doesn't touch the water , strut just above it , front shaft is bigger than the prop shaft
the boat hulls is a foot out of the water , the w drive is right against the capsule , but there is a mid shaft about 30" long than a prop shaft about the same length running two couplers one off the w and one under the boat
as far as slip i don't know but we grease the shit out of the props to make them slip so the boat doesn't slip

[ogshotgun]

Yes, yes, yes. Again, this is why I like the idea of use using modern machines to make these props.
And just so you digitizing haters know. I can draw a prop from nothing on CAD, I don't need a prop to copy. So if I ever decide to make one for myself, who should I send the royalty check to?

mail to me kevin ... lol ... lol ill take your money and not feel bad : )

[gn7]

maybe why its the worlds fastest and quickest drag boat , and toxic rocket isn't.

True. But I think there is way more that than how the props are orientated. I think driver input and E.Ts play no small part in determining the orientation of the props. You NKOW enough to flatly state that works on a outrigger canoe hull is the same a conventional hydro?
I never tried to push my setup on another GN, let alone 21 footer, or a SS/PS.


Smugness doesn't look good on you.

[sangerdan]

Not even close. The prop is running off/on the whole time.
When the ONE blade is headed down, it is doing the vast majority of the work to the point it passes straight up and down. Then its doing progressively less, while the other is beginning to do progressively more. But when they are dead horiz, neither is doing shit. No prop is loaded and unloaded like a hydro prop, and its only worse the more power you put to it.
With the twin props, they are arranged 90* out of sync, and the forward thrust is relatively even, although still off and on per side during the run. The fact they are counter rotating helps immensely with the stability of the boat, and counters the "side walking"

You can see the on/off in the rooster tails. This is actually a mild case.

39619
I had to wait til morning when I was a little more clear headed and I still don't get what you are saying. Please talk hydro or flatty . I get the hydro makes no thrust when the prop is in the air. Are you saying a prop doesn't generate thrust for every degree of rotation that it is in the water?

[ogshotgun]

True. But I think there is way more that than how the props are orientated. I think driver input and E.Ts play no small part in determining the orientation of the props. You NKOW enough to flatly state that works on a outrigger canoe hull is the same a conventional hydro?
I never tried to push my setup on another GN, let alone 21 footer, or a SS/PS.


Smugness doesn't look good on you.

lol bob your funny but i looked a lot of photos on a lot of tfh hydros and the run there props in sync also , just like toxic rocket they are in sync or phase not 90* out ... don't know what works on a outrigger or hydro just know what works with the bullet hull

[sangerdan]

http://www.mercurymarine.com/propellers/about/how-propellers-work/
This is the best description of how I have understood a prop to work. Water is always flowing in behind the prop to fill the "void" created when water is pushed off the prop rearward, otherwise a positive pressure is always building on the forward facing surface. The prop doesn't unload until the thrust surface is clear of the water. It begins to unload when the leading edge breaks surface and begins to load as the biting edge hits water In a flatty the leading edge never fully unloads. Interference from the strut and boat surface etc. would effect loading not the clocking of the prop .Does a box fan not throw a constant stream of air equally for each blade? Or is this all what Gn was saying and I was hearing it wrong?

[gn7]

lol bob your funny but i looked a lot of photos on a lot of tfh hydros and the run there props in sync also , just like toxic rocket they are in sync or phase not 90* out ... don't know what works on a outrigger or hydro just know what works with the bullet hull

Nothing is static in boat racing. Its entirely possible that the staggered prop set up is gone by the way side.
I know that when Faulkerson was running the Nitro Bullet and was a big part of developing the twin prop, as well as messing with a adjustable strut he was running staggered prop arrangement. But then, he was trying EVERYTHING!

The staggered prop setup was being used long before Faulkerson or anybody else running now even thought about.

http://www.performanceboats.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=196514&stc=1&thumb=1&d=1358312070

[gn7]

I think this is what Bob is saying.
39625

Pretty much. Its not a lot different when the prop is submerged, except the top down is adding thrust. But its easy to see the effects of the lower force on the up swing.
If it was equal, there would no to very little lift because it would simply counter the down swing that creates the lift. And the prop wouldn't "swim" and there would no benefit to running a circle boat off the snout, it would be neutral.

[SnoC653]

Yes, yes, yes. Again, this is why I like the idea of use using modern machines to make these props.
And just so you digitizing haters know. I can draw a prop from nothing on CAD, I don't need a prop to copy. So if I ever decide to make one for myself, who should I send the royalty check to?

Since nobody has a patent on props, if you design your own, why would you want to send someone a royalty check? As for hydros running shorter shafts that is true of the modern boats. I know the old conventional hydroplanes ran one inch shafts from the engine back to the prop, right between the driver's feet with no guard. Our 280 had a 1" shaft and every boat up to the seven liters I knew of used one inch shafts. I'm not sure what the unlimited ran back in the day, but even at 1 1/8" that is a lot of risk running between the driver's legs. I don't recall ever hearing of a shaft on one failing anywhere other than the prop or the coupler. Shaft whip wasn't the cause of failure.

Bob, how many shafts do you know of that have failed in the middle?

[gn7]

Since nobody has a patent on props, if you design your own, why would you want to send someone a royalty check? As for hydros running shorter shafts that is true of the modern boats. I know the old conventional hydroplanes ran one inch shafts from the engine back to the prop, right between the driver's feet with no guard. Our 280 had a 1" shaft and every boat up to the seven liters I knew of used one inch shafts. I'm not sure what the unlimited ran back in the day, but even at 1 1/8" that is a lot of risk running between the driver's legs. I don't recall ever hearing of a shaft on one failing anywhere other than the prop or the coupler. Shaft whip wasn't the cause of failure.

Bob, how many shafts do you know of that have failed in the middle?

NONE. I said that repeatedly. It just does not happen. I seen a TFH kick both short shafts out the back on shut down when the twin props were in infancy. But that was a mechanical failure at the couplers.
Never seen a single prop shaft fail between the back of front coupler and the back of the strut..

Pat Hoban GN30 had a shaft fail dead center in the log. But it was a brand new shaft of "commercial over the counter" 316 that broke the first time out, and broke on an EXTREME angle due to a flaw in the material. Looked like the mill "spliced" the run with a high angle scarf type joint you would use joining to end grain planks. Shit material that had no business being used a boat shaft.

[Propless]

Pretty much. Its not a lot different when the prop is submerged, except the top down is adding thrust. But its easy to see the effects of the lower force on the up swing.
If it was equal, there would no to very little lift because it would simply counter the down swing that creates the lift. And the prop wouldn't "swim" and there would no benefit to running a circle boat off the snout, it would be neutral.

I've always had a hard time understanding why this is true. I know its true, but I just cant wrap my head around why its true when a prop is fully submerged.

I think my little brain came up with a theory. Lets see if I'm on the right track here. It has to do with the props angle (shaft angle), right ? Sense the prop is angled under the hull, lets say 8 deg. And the hull is angled bow up slightly, lets say a few deg. The prop is running through the water at maybe 10 deg. Now think of the angle of the props ears (pitch) compared to its true direction of travel through the water, when both ears are straight out to the sides. The ear that's on the downward travel would have a more aggressive (higher pitch) compared to its true direction of travel through the water, creating lift, right ?

Now as far as the paddle wheel effect, ears having more bite when there down compared to up (fully submerged). They should have the same angle/pitch to direction of travel at that point. So could it be a rake issue ? The upper ear would be raked back more than the lower ear at that point (again compared to true direction of travel). Or is it just disruption of water to the upper ear by the hardware ? Maybe a combination of both ?

[Sharp shooter]

990hp is pretty good! I think a regular casale case can take about 37's with water jackets.

It takes a steady hand with the grinder, but 48's are possible while retaining the water jackets on standard Casale cases.

[gn7]

It takes a steady hand with the grinder, but 48's are possible while retaining the water jackets on standard Casale cases.
With HD gears

[gn7]

I've always had a hard time understanding why this is true. I know its true, but I just cant wrap my head around why its true when a prop is fully submerged.

I think my little brain came up with a theory. Lets see if I'm on the right track here. It has to do with the props angle (shaft angle), right ? Sense the prop is angled under the hull, lets say 8 deg. And the hull is angled bow up slightly, lets say a few deg. The prop is running through the water at maybe 10 deg. Now think of the angle of the props ears (pitch) compared to its true direction of travel through the water, when both ears are straight out to the sides. The ear that's on the downward travel would have a more aggressive (higher pitch) compared to its true direction of travel through the water, creating lift, right ?

Now as far as the paddle wheel effect, ears having more bite when there down compared to up (fully submerged). They should have the same angle/pitch to direction of travel at that point. So could it be a rake issue ? The upper ear would be raked back more than the lower ear at that point (again compared to true direction of travel). Or is it just disruption of water to the upper ear by the hardware ? Maybe a combination of both ?
Its more like the prop is too close to the surface. It moves the water (creating the rooster tail) as opposed to moving the prop thru the water that happens on the down side. To get anything approaching equal force off the prop would require something like this. Not unlike a Jet Ski prop or fan shroud on a car engine.

Take a prop on a 8* angle on 4 ft of water, with the top ear 1" below the surface, and spin it 10,000 RPM and tell me how much water flies in the air. That water creates some lift, but its countered by the ear trying to drive itself to the bottom of the lake. That force on the strut is countered by the upward force of the opposite side to a much greater degree.
The water thrown on the bottom of the boat does jack shit to propel the boat. It just destroys blast and cav plates.
https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQpJ_QHzYboL908Z0kCH46k7RP6XAaSm FgQ_VZJkcJPPwTxBVdIZA

[Propless]

Its more like the prop is too close to the surface. It moves the water (creating the rooster tail) as opposed to moving the prop thru the water that happens on the down side. To get anything approaching equal force off the prop would require something like this. Not unlike a Jet Ski prop or fan shroud on a car engine.

Take a prop on a 8* angle on 4 ft of water, and spin it 10,000 RPM and tell me how much water flies in the air. That water creates some but its countered by the ear trying to drive itself to the bottom of the lake. That force on the strut is countered by the upward force of the opposite side to a much greater degree.
The water thrown on the bottom of the boat does jack shit to propel the boat. It just destroys blast and cav plates.
https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQpJ_QHzYboL908Z0kCH46k7RP6XAaSm FgQ_VZJkcJPPwTxBVdIZA

OK, but lets picture this, same example you used, 8 deg shaft angle to the boats motion. Now lets use a prop that has an 8 deg angle on the blades. The downward moving blade will be creating no forward motion, just lift like a paddle wheel. But the upward moving blade would have a 16 deg angle and create forward motion as well as some downward thrust. Less downward thrust than the upward thrust of the paddle wheel on the downward motion side, Right ? We would end up with lots of lift and a little forward motion, Right ? So now we put the shaft at a 4 deg angle, same 8 deg blade angle, the downward moving blade will be at a 4 deg angle creating less lift but more forward motion, Right ? And the upward moving blade will be at 12 deg angle creating less forward motion than the downward moving blade that's at a 4 deg angle, Right ? The downward blade creates less lift, and the upward blade creates more downward trust, Right ? The down ward moving blade will have a much higher inch of movement per rotation (higher true pitch) than the upward moving blade. So we end up with less lift and more forward motion, Right ? Now put the shaft at 0 deg. Now both sides are creating the same forces. Same 8 deg blade angle, so same true pitch, same forward thrust, and equal up/down force. No lift, just forward motion, as long as the prop is fully submerged. So shaft angle as well as blade angle, compared to true forward motion angle will have a HUGE effect on lift, Right ? Not just how much water the prop throws in the air.

And I still think the shaft angle basically causing the upper blade to be raked back more than the lower blade (compared to true forward motion) has something to do with the "paddlewheel" effect (pushing the back of the boat one way or the other). I just cant figure it out in my head.

[ogshotgun]

It takes a steady hand with the grinder, but 48's are possible while retaining the water jackets on standard Casale cases.
i don't know are you sure i have a set of 35s i and the gear just laid across the v-drive is way into the water jacket .what case was this in

[ogshotgun]

With HD gears

is this possible ?

[sangerdan]

Earlier today I said I waited tii this morning so I had a clear head to make sure I had read something correctly. Actually it was related to Makers 46. Now I need to head out for a new bottle.

[gn7]

Yep. Its not standard gears won't fit, you can't get them in to start with. The HD gears use a 2 piece setup with a hub that allows the gears to slide in.

[HB Vic]

Earlier today I said I waited tii this morning so I had a clear head to make sure I had read something correctly. Actually it was related to Makers 46. Now I need to head out for a new bottle.

That sounds serious. Sorry to hear you ran out lol


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Sharp shooter]

i don't know are you sure i have a set of 35s i and the gear just laid across the v-drive is way into the water jacket .what case was this in

This has been common practice for a long time.

It's also what I run and it was set up by Tom Bentley at Menkins V-Drives. :)

http://www.v-drivevideo.net/pictures/albums/2/normal_mea_2.jpg

[steveo143]

Yep. Its not standard gears won't fit, you can't get them in to start with. The HD gears use a 2 piece setup with a hub that allows the gears to slide in.

35 HD gears will fit. You put the top gear on the shaft without the spacer, then the bottom gear, then add the spacer to the top gear. It will take several times to get the spacers correct and gear lash correct. I have never had a v-drive with HD gears that was able to use the same spacer setup. My 8* and 10* billet v-drives will take 54% HD gears easily as I have moved the waterjacket once again to a 6.100 diameter on center of the topshaft.

[gn7]

35 HD gears will fit. You put the top gear on the shaft without the spacer, then the bottom gear, then add the spacer to the top gear. It will take several times to get the spacers correct and gear lash correct. I have never had a v-drive with HD gears that was able to use the same spacer setup. My 8* and 10* billet v-drives will take 54% HD gears easily as I have moved the waterjacket once again to a 6.100 diameter on center of the topshaft.

Thanks for the clarification Steve. I knew it was something like that, and knew you knew the scoop.

[ogshotgun]

35 HD gears will fit. You put the top gear on the shaft without the spacer, then the bottom gear, then add the spacer to the top gear. It will take several times to get the spacers correct and gear lash correct. I have never had a v-drive with HD gears that was able to use the same spacer setup. My 8* and 10* billet v-drives will take 54% HD gears easily as I have moved the waterjacket once again to a 6.100 diameter on center of the topshaft.

so a set of Hd 35 gears will fit in my 12* case without removing the jacket , is that correct and who sells those gears Casale ?

[steveo143]

Thanks for the clarification Steve. I knew it was something like that, and knew you knew the scoop.

It took a Qt. of vodka and a couple of slepness nights to figure it out!!!!!! LOL

[gn7]

It took a Qt. of vodka and a couple of slepness nights to figure it out!!!!!! LOL

Grier Rush showed the in and outs of the HD setup a few years back. That's how I knew about it. I knew he was getting some pretty big numbers out of solid jacket/raised machined cases using them

[ogshotgun]

It took a Qt. of vodka and a couple of slepness nights to figure it out!!!!!! LOL
so who sells these gears ?

[gn7]

Casale, if and when they have them. Steveo may have some.

[ogshotgun]

Casale, if and when they have them. Steveo may have some.

ok thanks Bob

[steveo143]

so who sells these gears ?

I have several sets of used gears and Casale sells new sets. I can get any ratio you want built if I don't have it.

[ogshotgun]

I have several sets of used gears and Casale sells new sets. I can get any ratio you want built if I don't have it.
pm me i have 29s now that were new , with not much time on them looking to go a bit more pm me do you change them also ?

[steveo143]

PM sent!

[steveo143]

I spent several hours at the drags at Firebird 2 weeks ago benchracing with Wayne Mettler in Don Bausher's pit and the subject of prop shafts came up. Either Scott Owens or Tim at Lenco has a shaft material that according to them puts A22 and Inconel in the trash can. I will see Wayne this weekend at the drags and get more info. If we can stop breaking shafts the weakest link will then be the prop!!!!!

[2manymustangs]

I spent several hours at the drags at Firebird 2 weeks ago benchracing with Wayne Mettler in Don Bausher's pit and the subject of prop shafts came up. Either Scott Owens or Tim at Lenco has a shaft material that according to them puts A22 and Inconel in the trash can. I will see Wayne this weekend at the drags and get more info. If we can stop breaking shafts the weakest link will then be the prop!!!!!

This is the question I have been wondering about through all of these discussions (here and on PB)... If we can make axles that can last pass after pass in a pro mod OR monster trucks turning earth mover tires or a TF dragster/funny car, why can't we improve on the material that is used... I do get the need for a material that is corrosion resistant, could some kind of nitride or iridite 14-2 or nickel plating could be used, maybe, if the NEW material was carbon steel and NOT stainless???

[gn7]

This is the question I have been wondering about through all of these discussions (here and on PB)... If we can make axles that can last pass after pass in a pro mod OR monster trucks turning earth mover tires or a TF dragster/funny car, why can't we improve on the material that is used... I do get the need for a material that is corrosion resistant, could some kind of nitride or iridite 14-2 or nickel plating could be used, maybe, if the NEW material was carbon steel and NOT stainless???

I have thought the same thing. Not to mention off road torsion bars being cycled like crazy, in 2 directions. 300M seems to be the material of choice for shafts that are subjected to heavy cycling.
With the rudder, turn fins and props all made of carbon steel, I don't really see the "requirement" for a corrosion resistant material, specially on something that cycles thru a prop shaft as fast as a TFH.

I don't think I would want to run a carbon steel shaft on the GN, but it would not surprise me one bit if the stuff Wayne is referring to is a carbon steel.

[Mitch]

New props for Hallet vector
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/05/23/udepyju6.jpg

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/05/23/9yhu7yny.jpg

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/05/23/u9y5u6yp.jpg

[Sharp shooter]

New props for Hallet vector
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/05/23/udepyju6.jpg

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/05/23/9yhu7yny.jpg

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/05/23/u9y5u6yp.jpg

Beautiful!!

[2manymustangs]

I spent several hours at the drags at Firebird 2 weeks ago benchracing with Wayne Mettler in Don Bausher's pit and the subject of prop shafts came up. Either Scott Owens or Tim at Lenco has a shaft material that according to them puts A22 and Inconel in the trash can. I will see Wayne this weekend at the drags and get more info. If we can stop breaking shafts the weakest link will then be the prop!!!!!

Hey Steve O, hope all is well with you sir... :)

Did we learn anything about these new prop shafts, new material???

[steveo143]

Not yet, I've been too busy. I will get the info and am considering having a prop made with splines and no taper or keyway. Ron Hill says that would be no problem.

[2manymustangs]

Not yet, I've been too busy. I will get the info and am considering having a prop made with splines and no taper or keyway. Ron Hill says that would be no problem.

I'm guessing that not ALOT of folks haven't taken apart a brush hog gear box/T-blade mount but many use a tapered spline. I can't imagine that a prop could see any worse shock loads than my brush hog has seen (that is 25 years old) and has NEVER has been apart... THe shock of hitting a big stump or a basketball sized rock that is hiding in the tall grass with a brush hog is enough to shake your teeth out at the roots, and yet it stays together (they do have a dry clutch disk coupling on the gearbox output but are usually very rusty/crusty/TIGHT)...

Need to get the engineer from "Brush HOg" to do some moonlighting and tap into what he/they know... (fit/finish/clearances/material) ;)

I guess a taper/key design goes back a LONG LONG time to days where you wanted a shear to take place if there was too much force/shock/mud/rope/kelp/rocks impeding the prop...??? I dunno, just speculating... :)

Keep in touch Steve O... I'm looking forward to a visit with your crew at Long Beach which is JUST around the corner sir... I'm sure I will be grilling something so look me up (on the dark side of the stadium)... ;)

[sangermike]

the only thing I've got to add on the whip strut is I have one on my Sanger mini both burgeon and Wilkes recommended it on that style boat