Parker 300

[KAP]

Well is anyone going to this event???

I was thinking of going but still undecided although I am pretty sure I'm going?

Also wondering if Hotboat is going to cover it... or do they want me to do cameo coverage:wink_002:.

I would like to attend and check out what hulls and power racers are running. New things always generate anxiety and fear but hopefully it will be a great event.

I would like to bring my boat and thereafter go up to Havasu and boat.

Any thoughts ???

KAP

[Wendi]

You mean Parker 336?? Unfortuantely WMC and Wendi can't make it, not sure about Mr. & Mrs. Hotboat. If you could do a cameo coverage we would certainly appreciate it!!! Have Fun!

[KAP]

Does that mean I get Mr. Hotboat's camera or am I relegated to the I-Phone imagery!

[Wendi]

Does that mean I get Mr. Hotboat's camera or am I relegated to the I-Phone imagery! Haha that is up to Mr. HB....

[HB Vic]

Does that mean I get Mr. Hotboat's camera or am I relegated to the I-Phone imagery!

lol. Hey Kap we're sitting this one out for a couple reasons. Mainly because we desperately need a break. But also because its a somewhat awkward situation. Hopefully its pretty evident that we, hotboat.com, support boating and the racers. And it pains us greatly not to participate in this event. However, this particular race is being promoted and organized by RDP. I look at it this way, Channel 9 is hosting and promoting a race event, and we're Channel 5. Honestly I don't think we'd get the cold shoulder if we attended, many of the people who will be attending are our friends, but it would definitely be awkward. Now if our members would like to post up pics etc of the event, I have absolutely no problem with that and welcome the coverage. It's kind of a strange situation as far as performance boating sites are concerned. Typically when we attend these events we pass out freebies and do our best to not only cover the event, but promote our site. I would never do that in this situation, nor do I believe I would be welcome to do that. So its probably best we sit this one out. I hope everyone understands our position.

[KAP]

Hi Mr. HB:

I did not see any mention on HB so I thought I would post a thread on the topic.

The sponsorship is noted and completely understood. As a person who presents multiple sides to an argument I would say your channel analogy is not quite on point...LOL. Channel 9 can sponsor something but other TV stations can cover an event...LOL.

Seriously, I completely understand your position and it is a noble one.

Now to the question at hand how do I get my hands on that bad azz camera you have? Just kidding I would not want to carry that giant optic all day. I would have to reserve a seat in the boat for it....laughing.

I'm will be going and check it out as a spectator maybe even do a review on it. However, as a spectator the review would be brief versus the ones I normally do as a participant. Then again I would love to participate because sitting and watching is not my style.

Wondering how many people will be attending. The other site has not released names of the racers because of possible retaliation for attending an event. Shaking my head sounds very 3rd grade if people resort to that type of tactic...certainly wouldn't work with me.

I also would like to see the purse monies to be paid out in each class. That alone is a motivator for many to participate as well as what it costs to put a boat in the water. [Namely, registration fees and APBA monies...etc.]

It would be interesting to hear from members what their thoughts are on the event.

KAP

[HB Vic]

I'm glad you brought it up. I was thinking about this the other day. But I think I was pretty close on the channel 9 & 5 analogy. I'd call Oso Channel 7 and PB channel 4 :D I dunno, maybe we're closer to a channel 52 :D

[ChumpChange]

I dunno, maybe we're closer to a channel 52 :D

Need more low cut tops then.......

[hbchgirl]

Well is anyone going to this event???

I was thinking of going but still undecided although I am pretty sure I'm going?

Also wondering if Hotboat is going to cover it... or do they want me to do cameo coverage:wink_002:.

I would like to attend and check out what hulls and power racers are running. New things always generate anxiety and fear but hopefully it will be a great event.

I would like to bring my boat and thereafter go up to Havasu and boat.

Any thoughts ???

KAP

We won't be going this year... have a family wedding. Hopefully, KAP and others will post pics here!

[28eliminator]

Saving my gas money for Monster Bash the next weekend :biggrin:



Wondering how many people will be attending. The other site has not released names of the racers because of possible retaliation for attending an event. Shaking my head sounds very 3rd grade if people resort to that type of tactic...certainly wouldn't work with me.

KAP

:fsakes Are you kidding me?

[Wendi]

Need more low cut tops then.......
I think someone is in definite need of the class :kissykissy:

[HB Vic]

I think someone is in definite need of the class :kissykissy:

I took that as "he" needs more low cut tops :D

[ChumpChange]

I think someone is in definite need of the class :kissykissy:


I took that as "he" needs more low cut tops :D

Wendi took it the right way. She knows Telamundo!

[HB Vic]

Wendi took it the right way. She knows Telamundo!

I thought 52 was Wally George and the snow channel?? wtf happened?

[Racer J]

Hi Mr. HB:

I did not see any mention on HB so I thought I would post a thread on the topic.

The sponsorship is noted and completely understood. As a person who presents multiple sides to an argument I would say your channel analogy is not quite on point...LOL. Channel 9 can sponsor something but other TV stations can cover an event...LOL.

Seriously, I completely understand your position and it is a noble one.

Now to the question at hand how do I get my hands on that bad azz camera you have? Just kidding I would not want to carry that giant optic all day. I would have to reserve a seat in the boat for it....laughing.

I'm will be going and check it out as a spectator maybe even do a review on it. However, as a spectator the review would be brief versus the ones I normally do as a participant. Then again I would love to participate because sitting and watching is not my style.

Wondering how many people will be attending. The other site has not released names of the racers because of possible retaliation for attending an event. Shaking my head sounds very 3rd grade if people resort to that type of tactic...certainly wouldn't work with me.

I also would like to see the purse monies to be paid out in each class. That alone is a motivator for many to participate as well as what it costs to put a boat in the water. [Namely, registration fees and APBA monies...etc.]

It would be interesting to hear from members what their thoughts are on the event.

KAP

What do you mean by retaliation? I don't think any other site will care who spectates or races in this event, if they do I guess that's a site I don't need to have anything to do with. I'll be there helping some family and friends that are racing. Mostly helping myself to their beer!!

[gn7]

Its not about possible retaliation from another site, but a person or persons. But its all total BULLSHIT and any THOUGHTS of possible retaliation live in RD's head not in reality. Nobody gives a rat's ass who does or doesn't enter that race. Its RD's way of building drama around the race.

[Stainless]

Its not about possible retaliation from another site, but a person or persons. But its all total BULLSHIT and any THOUGHTS of possible retaliation live in RD's head not in reality. Nobody gives a rat's ass who does or doesn't enter that race. Its RD's way of building drama around the race.

Hey Bob, did you say War Canoe is not participating this year or that OGuru is not teamed with them? Either way it's a bummer. :(


CH3NO2

[Cigalert]

Its not about possible retaliation from another site, but a person or persons. But its all total BULLSHIT and any THOUGHTS of possible retaliation live in RD's head not in reality. Nobody gives a rat's ass who does or doesn't enter that race. Its RD's way of building drama around the race.

I'm not sure you know your audience here. He's a wonderful person to be around and I'm blessed to have been graced by his friendship. I wish him all the delegating and coat tail riding this endeavor will entail.

May peace be with you

Cig "dough nation" Alert

[Stainless]

I'm not sure you know your audience here. He's a wonderful person to be around and I'm blessed to have been graced by his friendship. I wish him all the delegating and coat tail riding this endeavor will entail.

May peace be with you

Cig "dough nation" Alert

Hey Cig, that was about as politically written as anything I've ever read. :D
I can't tell what party you belong to, lol.


CH3NO2

[HB Vic]

I'm not sure you know your audience here. He's a wonderful person to be around and I'm blessed to have been graced by his friendship. I wish him all the delegating and coat tail riding this endeavor will entail.

May peace be with you

Cig "dough nation" Alert

Well that was very nice of you Cig :D

[Cigalert]

Hey Cig, that was about as politically written as anything I've ever read. :D
I can't tell what party you belong to, lol.


CH3NO2


Well that was very nice of you Cig :D

I've turned over a new leaf.

http://livebreatheart.files.wordpress.com/2010/06/bowing1.jpg

[Stainless]

Lmfao!! :D


CH3NO2

[HB Vic]

I've turned over a new leaf.


So no more bread??

[Cigalert]

So no more bread??

Right now my focus is on pretzels....in the shape of bread. To say they're good would just be making me feel better and I would never do such a thing.

[HB Vic]

Right now my focus is on pretzels....in the shape of bread. To say they're good would just be making me feel better and I would never do such a thing.

Hot pretzels with butter is the bomb. Love it.

[H2oSki2Fast]

Right now my focus is on pretzels....in the shape of bread. To say they're good would just be making me feel better and I would never do such a thing.

Those things are GOOD! BTW, I didn't get my delivery today, WFT?

[gn7]

No the Canoe won't be there. Tony is driving 2nd spot in a turbo Schiada.

I can name 10 to 12 boats entered, so the idea of withholding name is pure bullshit. Maybe he does care to release the names that AREN"T entered, or the low number that are. Maybe its the fact that its going to be a 60 MPH outboard clusterflock.

Whatever RDs lame ass excuse is, it has NOTHING to do with personal attacks or vendetta. That's something RD dreamed up.

[Cigalert]

Hot pretzels with butter is the bomb. Love it.

Now think bigger....like wine mustard and ham on a pretzel that's big enough to be a sandwich. Only the dough is made from a nice buttery brioche and topped with coarse sea salt and an egg wash. (seriously, if you want some I'll probably have about 2dz extra tomorrow)


Those things are GOOD! BTW, I didn't get my delivery today, WFT?

They came out like crap. I tried to get more volume and they collapsed.

[Stainless]

Now think bigger....like wine mustard and ham on a pretzel that's big enough to be a sandwich. Only the dough is made from a nice buttery brioche and topped with coarse sea salt and an egg wash. (seriously, if you want some I'll probably have about 2dz extra tomorrow)



They came out like crap. I tried to get more volume and they collapsed.

I tell ya, the first ones you mentioned sound delicious!


CH3NO2

[HB Vic]

Now think bigger....like wine mustard and ham on a pretzel that's big enough to be a sandwich. Only the dough is made from a nice buttery brioche and topped with coarse sea salt and an egg wash. (seriously, if you want some I'll probably have about 2dz extra tomorrow)



They came out like crap. I tried to get more volume and they collapsed.

oh hellya I want some. We're actually going to be home this weekend. The last time we were home for a weekend one of the neighbors came over and introduced themselves and welcomed us to the neighborhood. We've only been here 10 years :D

[Cigalert]

oh hellya I want some. We're actually going to be home this weekend. The last time we were home for a weekend one of the neighbors came over and introduced themselves and welcomed us to the neighborhood. We've only been here 10 years :D

Cranky old codger. Quit coming home and closing the garage immediately...you're becoming an RSM'er.

If they come out good I'll hit you up about a delivery schedule. You're way more convenient that going to see H20ski2fast.

[HB Vic]

Cranky old codger. Quit coming home and closing the garage immediately...you're becoming an RSM'er.

If they come out good I'll hit you up about a delivery schedule. You're way more convenient that going to see H20ski2fast.

I think we're going to Hannah's right after work. GH might be here. Gonna blow out the carb on the Chevelle Saturday, that should be fun :D

[KAP]

Its not about possible retaliation from another site, but a person or persons. But its all total BULLSHIT and any THOUGHTS of possible retaliation live in RD's head not in reality. Nobody gives a rat's ass who does or doesn't enter that race. Its RD's way of building drama around the race.

You know it is funny! I was hoping you would chime in. Why because you never pull punches and tell it like it is. I can respect that it has integrity not always eloquent but succinct:wink2:.

On the subject of knowing who is racing or not.

I would like to know who is racing. It would be easy to put up a list of participants in each class. As a spectator I wouldn't want to go to an event that only had 10 boats with only one boat in each class. Kinda like watching Miss Geico race in turbine class when no other boats are in the class [using Team Geico only as an example]. It is also a draw for boating people if they know a person involved in the race... at least that is true from my perspective.


No the Canoe won't be there. Tony is driving 2nd spot in a turbo Schiada.

I can name 10 to 12 boats entered, so the idea of withholding name is pure bullshit. Maybe he does care to release the names that AREN"T entered, or the low number that are. Maybe its the fact that its going to be a 60 MPH outboard clusterflock.

Whatever RDs lame ass excuse is, it has NOTHING to do with personal attacks or vendetta. That's something RD dreamed up.

I can't comment on the sponsors motive or intent on the number of participants. I did ask about the prize money and how it is calculated for pay outs and increases if more parties attend. In SBI if you have six boats in stock class the payout is substantially higher for first place than if only two boats participated.

On the topic of keeping things quiet it does appear to me [an outsider] to be counter productive. If I were a race promoter I would be touting the numbers of participants and the confirmed payouts. I am not a promoter nor do I wish to be but a lot of questions remain unanswered.

I hope the drive over will be worth my time.

KAP

P.S. I would certainly like to meet you GN7.

[Hammer]

You have an awfully lot of shit to say GN7, are you racing ? My bet is no you are not....

You've been the biggest cancer to the RDP 336 Enduro. You've shit on it since day one.

KAP, I would recommend speaking to Dave on the phone to get more information on what you'd like to know. The political drama in boat racing is sad. Boat racing will not continue with the next generation, it will die with the current racers(some not all) they are the haters of change......

Good to see the true colors of the people in this thread, if you cared about the enduro and Parker you'd support it regardless of the promoter or race director.

[Wendi]

You have an awfully lot of shit to say GN7, are you racing ? My bet is no you are not....

You've been the biggest cancer to the RDP 336 Enduro. You've shit on it since day one.

KAP, I would recommend speaking to Dave on the phone to get more information on what you'd like to know. The political drama in boat racing is sad. Boat racing will not continue with the next generation, it will die with the current racers(some not all) they are the haters of change......

Good to see the true colors of the people in this thread, if you cared about the enduro and Parker you'd support it regardless of the promoter or race director.

Please don't include HB in your comments. We have been to every event possible and have sponsored races and racers since our launch. We definitely care about the sport. I do hope the Enduro does well. It is a great race and a great venue. Actually we did plan on spectating but our daughter has dance that weekend.

[Hammer]

Please don't include HB in your comments. We have been to every event possible and have sponsored races and racers since our launch. We definitely care about the sport. I do hope the Enduro does well. It is a great race and a great venue. Actually we did plan on spectating but our daughter has dance that weekend.

I care about the sport as well Wendi. I understand HB's stance, the post was geared more towards some of your (one in particular) members not the owners of HB.

[Bobby V]

You have an awfully lot of shit to say GN7, are you racing ? My bet is no you are not....

You've been the biggest cancer to the RDP 336 Enduro. You've shit on it since day one.

KAP, I would recommend speaking to Dave on the phone to get more information on what you'd like to know. The political drama in boat racing is sad. Boat racing will not continue with the next generation, it will die with the current racers(some not all) they are the haters of change......

Good to see the true colors of the people in this thread, if you cared about the enduro and Parker you'd support it regardless of the promoter or race director.

Hammer I agree with you about GN7. There is a reason he has been banned 3 times on RDs. But you wrote the RDP 336. Isn't it the Bluewater 336 Enduro.

[gn7]

I care about the sport as well Wendi. I understand HB's stance, the post was geared more towards some of your (one in particular) members not the owners of HB.
Hammer, you have no clue what you talking about. Myself and 4 others sat down with Scott and discussed this race for over 5 hours and we could not come to an agreement about the race rules. Its that simple. RD refused to change the rules so the GNs could race for points. It doesn't get any simpler than that. I had a 1 hour talk with Scott about it just 2 weeks ago, and it was still NOT GOING TO HAPPEN. It RD whats to stick to rules, and make it so the GNs can not race for APBA points, then he will suffer the lose of a good number of GNs. I cannot help that, that's RDs choice, not mine. Before the enduro was a points race, there were 4-6 GNs. When it became a points race, it was the largest class in the enduro. Last year there were 13 GNs. This year there might be 5. Same as before it paid points. I tried to explain to RD that paying money was trivial at best. Nobody the RACES a GN is going to spend the 5000 to 6000 dollars it takes to run that race so they can win 1500. Its STUPID!!! Remember Hammer, these guys are opening their wallets ALL YEAR. For you dipshit ass to say what you just did is asinine and ignorant. You are CLUELESS as is RD. When he wakes the flock up, he might find a few more boats on the water.

Hammer I agree with you about GN7. There is a reason he has been banned 3 times on RDs. But you wrote the RDP 336. Isn't it the Bluewater 336 Enduro.

I was banned TWICE. Get you flooking fact straight before flapping off at the lips. You sound like RD with his lying BULLSHIT. If there was somebody YOU THINK was me that got banned, too bad for him. I would hate for anybody to be mistaken for me. In the meantime, if you can't get you facts straight it might be best to STFU!

[Hammer]

Hammer I agree with you about GN7. There is a reason he has been banned 3 times on RDs. But you wrote the RDP 336. Isn't it the Bluewater 336 Enduro.

Whatever it is called... It's a cool race the rest is irrelevant as far as I'm concerned

[Hammer]

Hammer, you have no clue what you talking about. Myself and 4 others sat down with Scott and discussed this race for over 5 hours and we could not come to an agreement about the race rules. Its that simple. RD refused to change the rules so the GNs could race for points. It doesn't get any simpler than that. I had a 1 hour talk with Scott about it just 2 weeks ago, and it was still NOT GOING TO HAPPEN. It RD whats to stick to rules, and make it so the GNs can not race for APBA points, then he will suffer the lose of a good number of GNs. I cannot help that, that's RDs choice, not mine. Before the enduro was a points race, there were 4-6 GNs. When it became a points race, it was the largest class in the enduro. Last year there were 13 GNs. This year there might be 5. Same as before it paid points. I tried to explain to RD that paying money was trivial at best. Nobody the RACES a GN is going to spend the 5000 to 6000 dollars it takes to run that race so they can win 1500. Its STUPID!!! Remember Hammer, these guys are opening their wallets ALL YEAR. For you dipshit ass to say what you just did is asinine and ignorant. You are CLUELESS as is RD. When he wakes the flock up, he might find a few more boats on the water.


I was banned TWICE. Get you flooking fact straight before flapping off at the lips. You sound like RD with his lying BULLSHIT. If there was somebody YOU THINK was me that got banned, too bad for him. I would hate for anybody to be mistaken for me. In the meantime, if you can't get you facts straight it might be best to STFU!

It is my understanding that the APBA wouldn't accept any rules other than last years , if the rules are the same as last year, then why isn't it a points race for the GN class ? After all, it is a sanction APBA race correct ?

I understand to the GN guys it's more about the points and getting the OVERALL APBA series win and not the prize money.

[2FORCEFULL]

Its not about possible retaliation from another site, but a person or persons. But its all total BULLSHIT and any THOUGHTS of possible retaliation live in RD's head not in reality. Nobody gives a rat's ass who does or doesn't enter that race. Its RD's way of building drama around the race.

http://youtu.be/cfTxHwWYOpM

[2FORCEFULL]

Hammer, you have no clue what you talking about. Myself and 4 others sat down with Scott and discussed this race for over 5 hours and we could not come to an agreement about the race rules. Its that simple. RD refused to change the rules so the GNs could race for points. It doesn't get any simpler than that. I had a 1 hour talk with Scott about it just 2 weeks ago, and it was still NOT GOING TO HAPPEN. It RD whats to stick to rules, and make it so the GNs can not race for APBA points, then he will suffer the lose of a good number of GNs. I cannot help that, that's RDs choice, not mine. Before the enduro was a points race, there were 4-6 GNs. When it became a points race, it was the largest class in the enduro. Last year there were 13 GNs. This year there might be 5. Same as before it paid points. I tried to explain to RD that paying money was trivial at best. Nobody the RACES a GN is going to spend the 5000 to 6000 dollars it takes to run that race so they can win 1500. Its STUPID!!! Remember Hammer, these guys are opening their wallets ALL YEAR. For you dipshit ass to say what you just did is asinine and ignorant. You are CLUELESS as is RD. When he wakes the flock up, he might find a few more boats on the water.


I was banned TWICE. Get you flooking fact straight before flapping off at the lips. You sound like RD with his lying BULLSHIT. If there was somebody YOU THINK was me that got banned, too bad for him. I would hate for anybody to be mistaken for me. In the meantime, if you can't get you facts straight it might be best to STFU!

i was banned 3 or maybe it was 5 times... i'm a color 'd person now.....lmfao

[gn7]

Those are NOT last years rules. IF you remember, I was the one that said RD would NEVER get away with his ORGINAL MASS START race. Then he change it to ATTEMPT #2, still no go. he was NEVER going to get away with it. he told numerous time ON LINE he did not need the APBA and he WOULD IN FACT run the race as he saw fit. Then he got slapped awake, realized he was full of shit, and he did in fact need the APBA if had any change getting reasonable starting field and any chance of paying prize money. Why do you think RD removed those threads. Because they made him look like the moron he is/!!! He has NO CLUE how to put on a race. Its why he was forced to hire Scott. No way was the APBA going to give RD a sanction to run that race. It requires a APBA recognized club to start with, and RD didn't have that. You so stupid to think the APBA gives a hallpass to every dipshit with some money to put on an APBA sanctioned race. Hell no. You would end up with dipshits like RD running races. That can never be allowed. So RD became a PROMOTER. Its SCOTTS race, If something bad should go down, its SCOTT the APBA will talk to, not that fat ass with the supposed fat ass bank roll.
SOOOOO he STOLE the rules THAT THE RACERS THEMSELVES WROTE, not ROSS. But he INSISTED on making a few tweeks of his own and those tweeks cost him the APBA GNs. This was brought up to Scott in a laong ass breakfast meeting with the entire GN commission and the APBA region 12 chairman in attendance. It was IMPOSSSIBLE to get the rules changed to allow the GNs to run as a points race. From that point, you are dealing with individual owners as to whether they chose to run a 336 miles race with the race boats, THEN get them ready for the season opener in Nov. 4 weeks later. That's a tuff deal no matter who you are. if YOU do not race, you have no clue. If you don not open you wallet and spill the money to campaign a GN all year, then you hand RD have no room to be passing judgement on who does and does not run this race. It was RDs insistence on the rules, and the rules are what stopped the GNs from running for points.
Get YOU facts straight as well, before you go lipping off. It makes you look as dumb as the fat ass that runs that other site, and that doesn't look good on anybody. No body needs to deliberately look that stupid.

[gn7]

i was banned 3 or maybe it was 5 times... i'm a color 'd person now.....lmfao

Dave only bans you so he can talk smack about you while you are banned, Its his M.O. The fat ass is a weakling that can't take any heat. Specially in front of his loyal nutswingers.

[Hammer]

Those are NOT last years rules. IF you remember, I was the one that said RD would NEVER get away with his ORGINAL MASS START race. Then he change it to ATTEMPT #2, still no go. he was NEVER going to get away with it. he told numerous time ON LINE he did not need the APBA and he WOULD IN FACT run the race as he saw fit. Then he got slapped awake, realized he was full of shit, and he did in fact need the APBA if had any change getting reasonable starting field and any chance of paying prize money. Why do you think RD removed those threads. Because they made him look like the moron he is/!!! He has NO CLUE how to put on a race. Its why he was forced to hire Scott. No way was the APBA going to give RD a sanction to run that race. It requires a APBA recognized club to start with, and RD didn't have that. You so stupid to think the APBA gives a hallpass to every dipshit with some money to put on an APBA sanctioned race. Hell no. You would end up with dipshits like RD running races. That can never be allowed. So RD became a PROMOTER. Its SCOTTS race, If something bad should go down, its SCOTT the APBA will talk to, not that fat ass with the supposed fat ass bank roll.
SOOOOO he STOLE the rules THAT THE RACERS THEMSELVES WROTE, not ROSS. But he INSISTED on making a few tweeks of his own and those tweeks cost him the APBA GNs. This was brought up to Scott in a laong ass breakfast meeting with the entire GN commission and the APBA region 12 chairman in attendance. It was IMPOSSSIBLE to get the rules changed to allow the GNs to run as a points race. From that point, you are dealing with individual owners as to whether they chose to run a 336 miles race with the race boats, THEN get them ready for the season opener in Nov. 4 weeks later. That's a tuff deal no matter who you are. if YOU do not race, you have no clue. If you don not open you wallet and spill the money to campaign a GN all year, then you hand RD have no room to be passing judgement on who does and does not run this race. It was RDs insistence on the rules, and the rules are what stopped the GNs from running for points.
Get YOU facts straight as well, before you go lipping off. It makes you look as dumb as the fat ass that runs that other site, and that doesn't look good on anybody. No body needs to deliberately look that stupid.

I'm simply asking questions....

I guess I got my answers, the hatred is getting old. Take care BoB, good luck next season . I mean that sincerely, I'm a fan of all things boating, especially racing. Take care....

[FormulaZR]

Now think bigger....like wine mustard and ham on a pretzel that's big enough to be a sandwich. Only the dough is made from a nice buttery brioche and topped with coarse sea salt and an egg wash. (seriously, if you want some I'll probably have about 2dz extra tomorrow)


Good grief. Will you ship?!?

[gn7]

Hatered, What would you call it when some drunken fat ass takes a race that was STARTED by racers, had the rules written BY RACERS, and then re-wrote the rules so that APBA class racers can't race it for the first time in 6 years? No GN points, no CJ points. Why would I or anybody else chose to run that race? Why do you thing I joined the APBA. TOO RACE!! I can run my boat up and down the river any time I want. What makes this any different? A couple of bucks. You don't know racers too well if you think that's a reason. The money is to entice those that don't race, not the ones that do. Racers all know better. Its still a major looser. So there needs to be something else for them and Dave deliberately removed that something else and it cost him 15 boats that I know of.
Am I angry? Hell yes. It was deliberate and totally uncalled for and unnecessary.

[gn7]

After awhile you get tired of the whiney bullshit from the peanut gallery with crap like "Boycott" and other childish BS. When Scott threw out there the first thing I ask was how many enduros he ran in past ZERO!! So I asked if he boycotted those. He laughed and said you have a point. '

How many here are running the enduro, and if not, are you boycotting it? Hammer, ehat class ware you running or are you boycotting your messiahs enduro? Because if you are not running the race, you have no more room to talk that Scott did.

[76Bonneville]

Coming from a racers point of view, Bob's right on. For anybody who is competitive in their class, it's about points. Any prize money would just be kick back on a small portion of the investment we have in the boats. For an example our typical C/J cost on a 2 day 4 race weekend covering only 20 miles is $1500.00. Doesn't take into consideration the boat, hardware and the 15 grand I have in my motor. It's all about the points.


Hatered, What would you call it when some drunken fat ass takes a race that was STARTED by racers, had the rules written BY RACERS, and then re-wrote the rules so that APBA class racers can't race it for the first time in 6 years? No GN points, no CJ points. Why would I or anybody else chose to run that race? Why do you thing I joined the APBA. TOO RACE!! I can run my boat up and down the river any time I want. What makes this any different? A couple of bucks. You don't know racers too well if you think that's a reason. The money is to entice those that don't race, not the ones that do. Racers all know better. Its still a major looser. So there needs to be something else for them and Dave deliberately removed that something else and it cost him 15 boats that I know of.
Am I angry? Hell yes. It was deliberate and totally uncalled for and unnecessary.

[Hammer]

After awhile you get tired of the whiney bullshit from the peanut gallery with crap like "Boycott" and other childish BS. When Scott threw out there the first thing I ask was how many enduros he ran in past ZERO!! So I asked if he boycotted those. He laughed and said you have a point. '

How many here are running the enduro, and if not, are you boycotting it? Hammer, ehat class ware you running or are you boycotting your messiahs enduro? Because if you are not running the race, you have no more room to talk that Scott did.

I'm burying my step father that weekend, meanwhile I'm in nor cal taking care of my heartbroken mother, thanks for reminder :thumbup:

[gn7]

Add in the fact that the season opener is in Nov 4 weeks later, and you have to make a decision based on your willingness to miss that if you hurt the boat or motor. Many simply are not willing to take that chance. The season is more important than a couple of bucks you MIGHT win.

[gn7]

I read about your tragic lose Hammer. My heart felt prayers to you and your family. Mothers are very special people, and there is nothing that should stop anybody for caring for them. They care for us when we were totally dependent on them. The very least we can do for them is the same when they need us.

[HB Vic]

So much for going to bed at a reasonable hour. Time to close this one up.

[HB Vic]

ok, after much consideration. But please no bashing or personal attacks.

[rivergames]

Hey Bob, You mean to tell me rules were changed so you can't get GN points? NO Way! never heard of that happening before :lmao

[KAP]

Well this has been a very informative thread.

I still have a lot of questions which remain unanswered.

1. Why would a promoter not want the GN boats to run at their event?

2. I would think a final season race for points at this event is a draw for any group of racers.

A. What were the obstacles between the parties that excluded GN boats from running?

3. I disagree with the premise that purse money is not a factor. I have never encountered a racer who is already committed to a season of racing say....Hey! I came for the points and decline the purse money. If I had 10K in purse money for first place you would have teams coming out of the woodwork scrambling to sign up. Thus, one can only conclude that points and purse is icing on the cake.

4. RD did respond to my question about payouts and indicated the purse money was in excess of 6K. However, they need to describe how that will be paid out and the sums. Also listing participants is important to me if you have a lot of guys racing it draws people to the event.

As for the old guard that was the base of this race... change is difficult to accept. Therefore, concessions need to be made but the West Coast needs this race. Why! well there is no other endurance race on the west...other than perhaps the Catalina Ski Race...there was the Rum run awhile back but it faded into history.

I for one would love to see this race happen every year and have a desire to participate with an entry of mine. However, I certainly would not spend the resources if the rules change yearly or at the whim and agenda of a particular group. Then again politics and boat racing is synonymous with each other.

KAP

[ChumpChange]

ok, after much consideration. But please no bashing or personal attacks.

Well now my pretzel thread is worthless!

[pvhca1]

GN7, got no beef with you, but you need to chill on the shit talking about RD, either confront him like a man or let it go. Too be honest if you talked shit like this about me I'd kick your ass. Doesn't matter if you disagree with his ideas etc etc, the 7th grade pissing match needs to go away. If he's talking shit about you I must have missed it, I did see you start this whole thing months back when he started the Enduro thread. Let it go, put your emotions to good and positive use and maybe figure out what's best for the race's future.

[riverrunner1984]

Well now my pretzel thread is worthless!

Not that big of a fan of Pretzels Mateo, but for some reason, that Wendi's pretzel burger looks kinda good!!!

[HB Vic]

GN7, got no beef with you, but you need to chill on the shit talking about RD, either confront him like a man or let it go. Too be honest if you talked shit like this about me I'd kick your ass. Doesn't matter if you disagree with his ideas etc etc, the 7th grade pissing match needs to go away. If he's talking shit about you I must have missed it, I did see you start this whole thing months back when he started the Enduro thread. Let it go, put your emotions to good and positive use and maybe figure out what's best for the race's future.

I don't think I saw anywhere where anyone said anything about kicking anyone's ass until now. No need for personal threats ok. Thanks in advance.

[pvhca1]

I don't think I saw anywhere where anyone said anything about kicking anyone's ass until now. No need for personal threats ok. Thanks in advance.

Vic, never made a threat READ my post.

[HB Vic]

Vic, never made a threat READ my post.

I read your post very carefully. Thanks again.

[pvhca1]

I read your post very carefully. Thanks again.

Your welcome!!

[GRADS]

i was banned 3 or maybe it was 5 times...


I was banned TWICE.

Novices! Let me know when you get into triple digits and we'll talk. ;) Oh and by the way.....Hey RD....:kissit::fingers:

[Sharp shooter]

Novices! Let me know when you get into triple digits and we'll talk. ;) Oh and by the way.....Hey RD....:kissit::fingers:

Lol!!!

[H2oSki2Fast]

I'm burying my step father that weekend, meanwhile I'm in nor cal taking care of my heartbroken mother, thanks for reminder :thumbup:

Hammer, I absolutely understand you having to take care of your family, and commend you for that. Although, you were NEVER planning on entering this race, even before this tragic event happened in your life, please don't use your family as an excuse in this argument.

As far as johnson goes, at some point, you will see his true colors and that, "friends come and go" - johnson, when it happens you will look back and see he wasn't the great guy he portrays himself to be. Johnson only looks out for one thing, himself. You will find this out one day.

[H2oSki2Fast]

GN7, got no beef with you, but you need to chill on the shit talking about RD, either confront him like a man or let it go. Too be honest if you talked shit like this about me I'd kick your ass. Doesn't matter if you disagree with his ideas etc etc, the 7th grade pissing match needs to go away. If he's talking shit about you I must have missed it, I did see you start this whole thing months back when he started the Enduro thread. Let it go, put your emotions to good and positive use and maybe figure out what's best for the race's future.

Shit talking? The way I see it, it's only shit talking if it isn't true.

[H2oSki2Fast]

Cranky old codger. Quit coming home and closing the garage immediately...you're becoming an RSM'er.

If they come out good I'll hit you up about a delivery schedule. You're way more convenient that going to see H20ski2fast.

Don't be trying to give away my pretzel buns to keep yourself from getting banned!

[pvhca1]

Shit talking? The way I see it, it's only shit talking if it isn't true.

Thought you guys were alright again?

[Cigalert]

Don't be trying to give away my pretzel buns to keep yourself from getting banned!

I've learned you can only get banned if you give someone pretzel bread and then take it back so you can't tell everyone that it was your pretzel bread to begin with.

No personal attacks buddy

[ChumpChange]

I've learned you can only get banned if you give someone pretzel bread and then take it back so you can't tell everyone that it was your pretzel bread to begin with.

No personal attacks buddy

If that's your understanding of it...........

[KAP]

Well I guess my questions will go answered:secret:.

I plan on attending this event and hope it is a success.

If the GN boats are not included then maybe they will participate next year. Again, with this race it is a stretch to think that far ahead but I am optimistic.

Putting on this type of an event must be a HUGE undertaking. I told the promoter he should seriously consider backing out of the commitment and simply be a sponsor nothing more. The task has many obstacles including a tremendous time commitment. The way I see it half the people want it to fail and the other half want it to succeed. Those that want it to fail are the "see I told you so crowd." One of two things will happen. The event will be marginal and the parties to be will looking for a scapegoat or it will succeed and continue on a yearly basis. Then those in the failure camp will have zero leverage or input.

I for one would love for this to be much like Desert Storm in terms of size and draw...one can only hope!

Sidenote: The purpose of this thread was to hear thoughts and opinions from the membership rather than a topic about the promoter's personality etc... The rationale of the promoter on policy is relevant and why certain boating groups were excluded. I appreciate candid commentary on the subject. Name calling and the like is really juvenile. Facts are far more powerful than playground antics.

Lastly, anyone know how many total boats are committed??? I will ask those who know the promoter... PVHCA1, HAMMER, anyone??? I mean know for sure no guessing. I.E. Hey Kap there are 21 boats currently signed up who paid money to race...not that hard!

I look forward to attending this event and meeting a lot of people. For me attendance is finding out if the event has promise to participate. It is in the winter and more than likely the last boating event of the season for me.

[H2oSki2Fast]

I've learned you can only get banned if you give someone pretzel bread and then take it back so you can't tell everyone that it was your pretzel bread to begin with.

No personal attacks buddy

You and your damn conspiracy theories!

[GRADS]

Just announced.... there are 15 boats total that will be racing.

[HB Vic]

Just announced.... there are 15 boats total that will be racing.

Where did you get that info from???

[Wendi]

Just announced.... there are 15 boats total that will be racing. Your full of poop! Seriously LOL

[HB Vic]

Your full of shit! Seriously

Please, no personal attacks. You really don't know what he's full of now do you?

[Wendi]

Where did you get that info from???
He has no idea what he is talking about. There are 30+ registered as of last count.

[WESTERNAERO]

Just announced.... there are 15 boats total that will be racing.

I call bullshit... I was just at Teague last week and they were working on the boat for the enduro. I highly doubt they would waist they're time for 15 boats.

[H2oSki2Fast]

Please, no personal attacks. You really don't know what he's full of now do you?

That's micro modding at it's best, well without the ban hammer.

[HB Vic]

He has no idea what he is talking about. There are 30+ registered as of last count.

Yeah but he could be full of pizza, peanuts, and beer, you don't actually know what he's full of.

[Hammer]

Hammer, I absolutely understand you having to take care of your family, and commend you for that. Although, you were NEVER planning on entering this race, even before this tragic event happened in your life, please don't use your family as an excuse in this argument.

As far as johnson goes, at some point, you will see his true colors and that, "friends come and go" - johnson, when it happens you will look back and see he wasn't the great guy he portrays himself to be. Johnson only looks out for one thing, himself. You will find this out one day.

I was planning on volunteering to help in any way possible to see this race succeed, it could've been the previous regime, you or whoever.

The point I was making is that most of the racers have a personal vendetta or hatred towards anyone but Ross Wallach it seems. At least that's the way GN7 makes it sound.

As far as ME racing, I had backing to do so and could have, just because I don't post a HEY LAM thread doesn't mean I wasn't thinking about it. I've never raced a boat before and I was too intimidated of the Enduro to enter....

If racers REALLY cared about this particular Race they'd put their egos aside and volunteer to be a patrol boat or in any other aspect to help the race . Instead, since it's not a points race(supposedly), you choose to boycott and stay home instead of support the sport you love......

I just see this thread as a bash Dave Johnson thread, should've left it locked Vic......

[GRADS]

I just see this thread as a bash Dave Johnson thread, should've left it locked Vic......

If that's the case make it a "Sticky:". ;)

[Cigalert]

I was planning on volunteering to help in any way possible to see this race succeed, it could've been the previous regime, you or whoever.

The point I was making is that most of the racers have a personal vendetta or hatred towards anyone but Ross Wallach it seems. At least that's the way GN7 makes it sound.

As far as ME racing, I had backing to do so and could have, just because I don't post a HEY LAM thread doesn't mean I wasn't thinking about it. I've never raced a boat before and I was too intimidated of the Enduro to enter....

If racers REALLY cared about this particular Race they'd put their egos aside and volunteer to be a patrol boat or in any other aspect to help the race . Instead, since it's not a points race(supposedly), you choose to boycott and stay home instead of support the sport you love......

I just see this thread as a bash Dave Johnson thread, should've left it locked Vic......

Patrol boat? You can't tell a race horse to sit. Especially when you made a dog race that horses can't enter.

[Hammer]

Patrol boat? You can't tell a race horse to sit. Especially when you made a dog race that horses can't enter.

You're just as biased as everyone else here . You all (except KAP and few others) make this about one thing you all can agree on, you hate Dave want to see him fail and not just with this event. If that means the Enduro goes down with him, So be it.

I'm done here, it's a loosing argument for all sides.

[Hammer]

If that's the case make it a "Sticky:". ;)

I honestly would like to meet you, a lot of people don't like you , as for me I don't pass judgement until I've met someone and you've done me wrong....

[GRADS]

I honestly would like to meet you, a lot of people don't like you , as for me I don't pass judgement until I've met someone and you've done me wrong....

Let's make it happen.:thumbup:

[78Southwind]

Yeah but he could be full of pizza, peanuts, and beer, you don't actually know what he's full of.

Yes, but eventually that all turns to shit right? ;) Just had to get in before the lock down.

[ChumpChange]

I'm done here, it's a loosing argument for all sides.

Agreed that's it's somewhat of a losing argument on both sides. Sure does suck being on that end of the mob mentality.

[HB Vic]

I just see this thread as a bash Dave Johnson thread, should've left it locked Vic......
I'm real close to locking it up again. For the record, I sincerely hope this race is a success for many reasons. Primarily for the racers, they are the ones putting on the show (and risking more than just metal and fiberglass in the process) for all of us to enjoy. Without their passion for the sport, we'd be watching sailing boats or worse, jet ski races lol. Secondary to the racers is the boating industry as a whole. Right now the boating industry is super fragile. What little the economy hasn't run over is always being threatened by the regulators. So the sport really can't take much more load. The sport can't afford failure. Some of whats been said here has been said out of anger, but quite honestly, I believe its been said out of passion. These guys live, eat, and breathe racing. So when things don't fall in to place and they can't or won't race, they get pissed off. Who wouldn't?? Some of the other questions appear to be legitimate. And I honestly don't know enough about this race to answer one way or the other. I'm not going to lock down a thread where someone appears to be asking legitimate questions. I will send down a final warning however, please stop the personal attacks or I will not only lock this thread down, I will delete it. Carry on. Nicely please :D

[HB Vic]

I saw it on a billboard.
22538

The thing I've learned about GRADS is he's harmless. I chuckled when I saw this. Another very good example of poor humor timing by GRADS. Bravo :D

[HB Vic]

If you can't laugh, you can't live. So live a little :D

[2FORCEFULL]

Hammer, I absolutely understand you having to take care of your family, and commend you for that. Although, you were NEVER planning on entering this race, even before this tragic event happened in your life, please don't use your family as an excuse in this argument.

As far as johnson goes, at some point, you will see his true colors and that, "friends come and go" - johnson, when it happens you will look back and see he wasn't the great guy he portrays himself to be. Johnson only looks out for one thing, himself. You will find this out one day.

this is all so true,..

I don't know if this goes in this thread or not but,

I don't like RD... or anything to do with him and wish he would just leave me alone and not call or talk to me..

i don't know why hammer has to pop up over here and try to make likers out of the dislikers, but one day he will join us....

[H2oSki2Fast]

Agreed that's it's somewhat of a losing argument on both sides. Sure does suck being on that end of the mob mentality.

There is about as much mob mentality with me as the is a loss, absolutely none! At least I will say, in person, the same thing I will say on a forum.

[ChumpChange]

There is about as much mob mentality with me as the is a loss, absolutely none! At least I will say, in person, the same thing I will say on a forum.

Mob might have been the wrong word. How about the "majority"?

<------- Switzerland. :D

[GRADS]

Sure does suck being on that end of the mob mentality.

I wouldn't know.:rolleyes

[gn7]

I still have a lot of questions which remain unanswered.

1. Why would a promoter not want the GN boats to run at their event?
I never said they he doesn't want the GNs there. I am sure he does. he may be a lot of things, be he is not stupid. He needs boats, all the boats he can get, and GNs tend to be favorites because they make a little more noise than a string jerker.
Where he made the mistake is thinking MONEY was all he needed to get them, and I tried in vain to explain that's not the case, or nearly enough.

2. I would think a final season race for points at this event is a draw for any group of racers.
It always did in the past, I tripled the number of GNs and CJs when it became a points race. Again this was all explained to RD at the meeting.
A. What were the obstacles between the parties that excluded GN boats from running?
Points. This shouldn't be so hard to understand, unless you are RD.

3. I disagree with the premise that purse money is not a factor. I have never encountered a racer who is already committed to a season of racing say....Hey! I came for the points and decline the purse money. If I had 10K in purse money for first place you would have teams coming out of the woodwork scrambling to sign up. Thus, one can only conclude that points and purse is icing on the cake.
Well, I take it you do not campaign a circle boat all year. Winnings are a gamble and the amount is PEANUTS. It may be 6000, or 10,000. But its spread across an entire field, and NO explanation of the pay by class, or overall finish. So you win your class and win 500.00, and the over 3rd gets 1200.00? I don't know, and I am not all that interested without knowing, Again, the payout was never all the when Ross did pay out. About 6-9000 across the ENTIRE field. Not enough to lose sleep over. Lose 150 points, and FORGET THE CHANPIONSHIP! I will trade 500 for the championship every day of the week. If you race for money, find another sport. Again, if you believe what you say, then you sound a lot like RD, and we see how the money thing is working for him. IT IS NOT A BOAT DRAW.ONLY SPECTATORS BELIEVE THAT
4. RD did respond to my question about payouts and indicated the purse money was in excess of 6K. However, they need to describe how that will be paid out and the sums. Also listing participants is important to me if you have a lot of guys racing it draws people to the event.
Because it exposes the fallacy of the money as a draw. If he uses boat entries as pay back, then a class with 3 boats gets pay almost jack shit. If he makes it even across the classes, he is screwing the high boat count classes where its harder to win due to the number of boats. Does he pay the same for Div I as Div VII where it cost 5 times as much to run the boat as a 100HP outboard? The winnings won't pay for one drum of fuel. RD stated in the very beginning he would pay MORE THAN ALL THE PREVIOUS 300 COMBINED!! The very first 300 paid 9000.00, all the money paid out in all the 300s is in the excess of 6000.00 ON AVERAGE!!! Even if you include last years ZERO payout. So again, there may have been a little lying going on here. Nothing unusual for RD
As for the old guard that was the base of this race... change is difficult to accept. Therefore, concessions need to be made but the West Coast needs this race. Why! well there is no other endurance race on the west...other than perhaps the Catalina Ski Race...there was the Rum run awhile back but it faded into history.

I for one would love to see this race happen every year and have a desire to participate with an entry of mine. However, I certainly would not spend the resources if the rules change yearly or at the whim and agenda of a particular group. Then again politics and boat racing is synonymous with each other.
Lots of races fade away. The original Parker 9hr faded away. The Salton Sea 500 faded away. It happens. Rule changes??? The rules of this race changed 3 times in 3 weeks! Nobody remembers RDs mass start no handicap "New Race-New Format" claims? They lasted less than a month and he looked so follish he removed the threads completely from the forums. He doesn't take looking stupid well. Lucky for him, he has keys to the place and can omit what ever does show him in the light he likes.

KAP


GN7, got no beef with you, but you need to chill on the shit talking about RD, either confront him like a man or let it go. Too be honest if you talked shit like this about me I'd kick your ass. Doesn't matter if you disagree with his ideas etc etc, the 7th grade pissing match needs to go away. If he's talking shit about you I must have missed it, I did see you start this whole thing months back when he started the Enduro thread. Let it go, put your emotions to good and positive use and maybe figure out what's best for the race's future.
I have had numerous exchanges with RD outside his website that very few people know of. So please get ALL your facts straight before you put your filthy finger in my eye! I had one 4 hour meeting with his race director, who has pretty much instructed RD to step out of the race nuts and bolts, and that was probably a good idea. RD is not a race person. One problem is, his race director has his issues as well, and is know as the great divider in the APBA circles. ASK RIVERGAMES(ANDREW). I am not making it up. So you have a less than highly endorsed person in charge of thing to draw APBA races to the thing, and he may have not been the best choice. Again, a choice RD made, and he has to deal with that. He NEEDED somebody, because RD COULD NOT go to the APBA himself, they have no clue who he is or care. he need a APBA club and somebody the APBA recognized. The bar tender at Foxes knows RD, but not the APBA brass,

I was planning on volunteering to help in any way possible to see this race succeed, it could've been the previous regime, you or whoever.

The point I was making is that most of the racers have a personal vendetta or hatred towards anyone but Ross Wallach it seems. At least that's the way GN7 makes it sound.

As far as ME racing, I had backing to do so and could have, just because I don't post a HEY LAM thread doesn't mean I wasn't thinking about it. I've never raced a boat before and I was too intimidated of the Enduro to enter....

If racers REALLY cared about this particular Race they'd put their egos aside and volunteer to be a patrol boat or in any other aspect to help the race . Instead, since it's not a points race(supposedly), you choose to boycott and stay home instead of support the sport you love......

I just see this thread as a bash Dave Johnson thread, should've left it locked Vic......
Not sure why you see it as a RD bashing thread when EVERYTHING said is true and can be verified, BY SCOTT SCHATZ!!! You talk to RD too much and you have his side of it. Bottom line, the boats are showing up that could, and RDs decisions are why. That cannot be disputed by RD himself. As for you running the event, I wish you and everybody else would!!1 because then you would have a leg to stand on when you make some of the ridiculous statements you make. Right off I questioned RD about the number of his nutswingers were running the event. If all RD loyal followers entered this race, it would be bigger than the Baja, and Indy and Daytona COMBINED. The reality is, they just pat his back and tell him he is the greatest man in all boating. But of course he can't rely on the nutswinging loyalists because they can only provide lip service, and not about to pour out 5-6000 to run this race, IF THEY AHD THE BALLS!!!

I'm real close to locking it up again.
Well I am kind of glad you did, because I felt some of this needed to be replied to, specially those questions directed at me. Locking this out is akin to RD trashing someone AFTER he bans them so they can't respond. He is that weak, and that low. Its his trademark MO.

[KAP]

GN7

I applaud your commentary and factual analysis of the issues.

Great job and very candid...also more powerful than name calling.

Once again, thank you for your insight and answers to my questions.

Hope to see you soon at an event.

KAP

P.S. I agree I would rather have the Championship than a couple grand in money any day. Having both is sweet.

[RogerThat99]

There are a lot of people eyeballing this thread. LOL.

There are currently 19 users browsing this thread. (15 members and 4 guests)
RogerThat99, 2FORCEFULL+, 76Bonneville, Bezer1, Body Snatcher, Carbon, framer1, gn7, H2oSki2Fast, Hallett240, KAP, Mateo, RVR SWPR, wings_of_eagles

[gn7]

Hey Bob, You mean to tell me rules were changed so you can't get GN points? NO Way! never heard of that happening before :lmao

YES YES YES
I will say this AGAIN, we Ted Kolby(Inboard Endurance Chairman), Ben Morrone, Terry Valore, and myself,(I.E. commissioners) and Roger Carr(APBA Region 12 cahirman) and one of RD cling-ons(Mike 138 on the boards) all sat down for over 4 hours hammer out the rules BEFORE THEY WERE EVER POSTED ON RDP. and we could not come to a means to allow the race to be a sanctioned APBA race for ANY class except GPS 95. Because GPS 95 is the ONLY APBA class with a speed limit.
All previous 300s had a SINGLE course speed limit that no boat was allowed to exceed. Everybody saw this as a restriction for the Nordic, but the truth is, it applied to ALL boats including Teague and Gary H. It was a speed high enough that no GN was likely to exceed in 300 mile race with the engine restrictions we have. So it never imposed a problem.
However RD has from day one, even with his old mass start race format INSISTED on class speed limits. I know why, and he has his reasons. That's cool, its his race to run as he likes. But when he makes a rule for one reason, it can have its effects on what is REALLY A RACE for some boats.

As of this very moment, in fact up until Friday night before the race, nobody, not Scott, not RD can tell anybody what there speed limit will be. They cannot really tell you what you handicap and start time will be. They have no clue until Friday night. So a GN enters the race, and the speed limit is 85 or 90, and a GN exceeds that, he is penalized a lap. ANDREW, YOU EVER BEEN PENALIZED FOR GOING TOO FAST IN A APBA RACE?? Have you EVER seen a APBA boat penalized for going too fast? Can you cite be the rule that allows the penalizing a boat for going too fast? I you were penalized for going too fast, would you protest the ruling?
Do you watch a speedo or clock to make sure you do not go too fast in a race?

In 4 hrs of talks, plus another hour on the phone with Scott 2 weeks ago, they could not come up an agreeable speed limit, or a solution to the problem that was agreeable with RD so we are where we are. No inboard endurance sanction for points for either GNs or CJs.

[gn7]

P.S. I agree I would rather have the Championship than a couple grand in money any day. Having both is sweet.

Only one person has ANY chance of walking away from that race with a couple grand, and those POSSIBLE winners are already cast in stone. That's a given.
Entering this race with the idea of winning that kind of money is foolish. few hundred would be the best you can hope for. SO WHAT, in a race that cost 5000+ to run. So you win drinking money for after the race, Whoopie!
However, TWICE I have won the championship AT THAT RACE! So have others. In fact this year is the ONLY year that the championship was pretty well decided before the enduro. Every year since the enduro paid points, the championship was decided at the enduro.

[WESTERNAERO]

Bob, I'm a little lost on the speed limit deal. Could you explain more of this. I really would like to know why there is a speed limit at all.

[76Bonneville]

I was planning on volunteering to help in any way possible to see this race succeed, it could've been the previous regime, you or whoever.

The point I was making is that most of the racers have a personal vendetta or hatred towards anyone but Ross Wallach it seems. At least that's the way GN7 makes it sound.

As far as ME racing, I had backing to do so and could have, just because I don't post a HEY LAM thread doesn't mean I wasn't thinking about it. I've never raced a boat before and I was too intimidated of the Enduro to enter....

If racers REALLY cared about this particular Race they'd put their egos aside and volunteer to be a patrol boat or in any other aspect to help the race . Instead, since it's not a points race(supposedly), you choose to boycott and stay home instead of support the sport you love......

I just see this thread as a bash Dave Johnson thread, should've left it locked Vic......

Ross is not immune to racers calling him out.

[HB Vic]

GN7, I gotta ask. How many races have you entered, how many did you finish, how many classes, and how many W's??

[78Southwind]

Without bashing someone, why would RD, the Race Director or anyone else for that matter want to potentially lower the count of GN boats that would normally race the enduro due to racing for points? Forget all the name calling and personal bullshit. I personally have volunteered as a Patrol Boat at the event back in 2008 and had a blast. I didn't care who was promoting it at the time nor do I care right now. What answer did they give you? Is it to expensive, too late in the game to change. There has to be a reasonable answer. GN boats our bad ass by the way...

Edit...Thanks for clearing it up GN7...I think I understand more not only were the GN's affected but all the other APBA classes without a speed limit. I thought speed limits were for River Racer or Nostalgia type racing?

[Skyskier]

Bob, I'm a little lost on the speed limit deal. Could you explain more of this. I really would like to know why there is a speed limit at all.

This is gonna be a "race" with speed limits ??? somebody PLEASE clarify this. I'm planning on going over for this deal, haven't missed one in the past 12 years, BUT, IF indeed there IS gonna be a "speed limit" I'll stay here at the ranch a mend fences, I've been putting this job off too long anyways.

Shit !!!!!!! my Pop's is towing down from Idaho with the Sanger to see this

[WESTERNAERO]

This is gonna be a "race" with speed limits ??? somebody PLEASE clarify this. I'm planning on going over for this deal, haven't missed one in the past 12 years, BUT, IF indeed there IS gonna be a "speed limit" I'll stay here at the ranch a mend fences, I've been putting this job off too long anyways.

That's kinda where I'm at too. I assumed this was a run-what-you-brung sort of deal.

[ChumpChange]

Restrictor plate racing!:speechless-smiley-0

[gn7]

Bob, I'm a little lost on the speed limit deal. Could you explain more of this. I really would like to know why there is a speed limit at all.
Friday is a qualifying day. All the boats are SUPPOSE to run one lap that is timed and that is the maximum speed limit for the event for what ever class the fast boat in that class ran. That number is what they will use to determine the handicap and start time for that class. If a GN goes out and laydown a 100MPH lap, that's fine, but no GN can go 100MPH for 336 miles with the engine restrictions we run with. They are not unlimited turbo motors like Div VI and VII. Put they will do 100 easy and do in every GN race. But not for 336 miles. Plus most don't hold enough fuel to go 336 miles on 2 stops at that speed, and a 3rd stop will kill your chances of winning anything.
Also, many of the GNs change engines from their normal season engine to a much milder deal that might not go 100+. So ONE individual lights up the course at 100 plus and that's our handicap speed we MUST maintain to win. OR, the other scenario is, we all agree to go 85 in the qualifier, but if get in a heated battle with another GN or even another boat, and go 95, you are penalized for that lap. 3% speed difference is not easy to detect in a boat. 3% time is impossible without a stop watch. Never ever heard of a APBA racer watching a stop watch except for a time clock start. Once the flag drops, NONE OF THEM are watching a stop watch!!!
In ALL previous enduros, there was one single APBA mandated speed limit that applied to all boats, and even then, it was exceeded. Only thing is, those boats were not racing for APBA points, and APBA race rules did not apply to them. This is the problem with running an APBA points race inside of a race like this. But in the past we were able to work it out with the promoter, and he was all for it because it almost tripled the boat count in 2 class. RD simply was not interested in making it a APBA points paying race. That's cool, so long as he understands the implications of his decision. I am sure he has his reasons for sticking to his guns.

Ross is not immune to racers calling him out.

Are you kidding me!!! Ross is only a 1/2 notch up from the shit hole with me compared to RD. I am not 100% sure I was going to run this even if Ross was running it, and I have never NOT run it as a points race. EVER! We sat out this entire year partially because of something that Ross said to me at Long Beach, and I am sure he regrets saying it. But I can sit out a Ross race just fast and just as easy as a RD race. Just piss me off and the boat is on the trailer!! That's MY CHOICE as the boat owner. The whole boycott thing is pure bullshit that RD invented so it didn't look like he was the reason a lot of boats stayed home. At least Ross owed up to the fact they he was the reason I sat out this year, and he has apologized. RD could care less why some boats didn't enter, but he KNOWS it wasn't him, he is too cool for that. had to be somebody elses fault. Maybe Bush's

[ChumpChange]

Maybe Bush's

Let's not make this thread political or it gets locked. :D

[Stainless]

Let's not make this thread political or it gets locked. :D

I think everyone needs to just settle the fuck down and have a pretzel. :D


CH3NO2

[riverbound]

Gn7. You and I have gone round and round. And I have to say the recent posts have been the most informative without the name calling and other insults.

Without all the insults I can see your side of the fence and why you're so passionate. Although I may not agree, I understand.

My opinion might not mean shit to you though. Lol.

I am one of the "nutswingers" and am running a boat this year. Unfortunately finances and work prevented me from being involved the last couple years.

[HB Vic]

It we can stay somewhat civilized I'll keep this open. But fair warning, I'm drinking, anything is possible :D

[Sharp shooter]

GN7, I gotta ask. How many races have you entered, how many did you finish, how many classes, and how many W's??

I'll take this one.... :D

Nobody really knows what Bob has done because none of us are old enough to remember. My guess is there's some early man cave art yet to be discovered with detailed illustrations showing Bob's championships before Christ was born. HAHAHAA!!

But seriously, as far as GN racing goes, the (not so) old number 7 boat has come a long way. He's been layin low recently, but for many years the 7 has been the boat to beat and inducted into the hall of champions which is the top award you can get imo.

Careful with that hair trigger Vic. :D

[Sharp shooter]

Gn7. You and I have gone round and round. And I have to say the recent posts have been the most informative without the name calling and other insults.

Without all the insults I can see your side of the fence and why you're so passionate. Although I may not agree, I understand.

My opinion might not mean shit to you though. Lol.

I am one of the "nutswingers" and am running a boat this year. Unfortunately finances and work prevented me from being involved the last couple years.

That was very "stand up" of you to say that. IMHO :thumbsUp:

[gn7]

Let's not make this thread political or it gets locked. :D

Well, we know it wasn't Obama's doing. Nothing is his fault. So that eliminates RD and the Obama. :action-smiley-069: Only 317 million other possibilities.

[HB Vic]

This thread is both informative and a cliff hanger at the same time. I need more alcohol :D

[gn7]

Gn7. You and I have gone round and round. And I have to say the recent posts have been the most informative without the name calling and other insults.

Without all the insults I can see your side of the fence and why you're so passionate. Although I may not agree, I understand.

My opinion might not mean shit to you though. Lol.

I am one of the "nutswingers" and am running a boat this year. Unfortunately finances and work prevented me from being involved the last couple years.

Its cool that you are driving and you are in a boat to beat if they have a handle on it, and the weak link Tony holds up his end of the deal. I will say that driving a boat and picking up the tab for it are two different things, and require two totally different enticements. I have no doubt that Bill (GN7 driver) would jump in a boat in a heart beat for this race, but he fully understands why its sitting on the trailer that weekend. Nobody know the lay out more than he does. He has seen every part that has gone into the boat thru the years, and did much of the boat work himself. Nobody wanted to run the race more than him, but he understands it was meaningless to do so. Doesn't make him any happier. Drivers want to drive.
But spare me the whiney crap about finances and work. You and I both know as a nutswinger you were boycotting all the previous 300.:biggrin:

See how insane that sounds when its turned around? Why does it only work when a RD cling on says it make it so? You guys don't think you sound just as ridiculous as I do saying it? Or is it because we always ran it before, religiously? Did you ever bother to think we did so for a reason, and NOT because it was Ross's race? I didn't run the first non points paying enduro. But ran every single one after that.

[Skyskier]

I'll take this one.... :D

Nobody really knows what Bob has done because none of us are old enough to remember. My guess is there's some early man cave art yet to be discovered with detailed illustrations showing Bob's championships before Christ was born. HAHAHAA!!

But seriously, as far as GN racing goes, the (not so) old number 7 boat has come a long way. He's been layin low recently, but for many years the 7 has been the boat to beat and inducted into the hall of champions which is the top award you can get imo.

Careful with that hair trigger Vic. :D

Badass boat for sure !...........ALWAYS a front runner :thumbup:
22554

[Napanutt]

This thread is both informative and a cliff hanger at the same time. I need more alcohol :D

I'm having a hard time not picturing you as an under wear clad homer simpson sitting in a chair surrounded by indulgence about now. :D

[ChumpChange]

I'm having a hard time not picturing you as an under wear clad homer simpson sitting in a chair surrounded by indulgence about now. :D

We're all representative by our avatars, me included.

I wish.

[HB Vic]

I'm having a hard time not picturing you as an under wear clad homer simpson sitting in a chair surrounded by indulgence about now. :D

I'm wearing gym shorts and a wife beater lol

[ChumpChange]

I'm wearing gym shorts and a wife beater lol

Go Raiders!!!!!

[H2oSki2Fast]

I think everyone needs to just settle the fuck down and have a pretzel. :D


CH3NO2

Pretzels, gotcha!

22555

[Napanutt]

I'm wearing gym shorts and a wife beater lol
A lot better visual then Homer Simpson, I think.

[gn7]

I'll take this one.... :D

Nobody really knows what Bob has done because none of us are old enough to remember. My guess is there's some early man cave art yet to be discovered with detailed illustrations showing Bob's championships before Christ was born. HAHAHAA!!

But seriously, as far as GN racing goes, the (not so) old number 7 boat has come a long way. He's been layin low recently, but for many years the 7 has been the boat to beat and inducted into the hall of champions which is the top award you can get imo.

Careful with that hair trigger Vic. :D
The cave man art would be go carts, motocross, desert bikes and cars, and asphalt drags. Maybe a caricature of Fast Lane Fitz beating up on me in there somewhere too. :thumb: Guy drove everything like he stole it.
But no boats. That was after Christ.

GN7, I gotta ask. How many races have you entered, how many did you finish, how many classes, and how many W's??
Few outside the GN class with the exception of Shooter and Dave Rankin know how hard we struggled finding our way in this. Never raced a boat before 2002 and its a tougher gig than some think.
We started the 2002 season in Nov 2001 at Parker AZ as our first race. That's the race that we lost Lance Faulkner and Mike Hoban in the same weekend. That was enough to make 2 newbies quit right there. Bill got lapped 4 times in a 20 minute race and neither of us we all the enthused to continue. Rudy Ramos, Lanse Haselrig, and Mike's brother Pat convinced us not to. Trust me, we were out!!! Shooter had some footage of Bill driving and it was a reminder of where we started. It was not flattering to say the least.

I am one that if you are in, you are ALL IN! In the 10 years we ran from 2002 to 2012, we put the boat on the water more times, and earned more points than any other boat during that 10 years, by a lot. Drivers came and drivers went. We won 3 Hi points championships, and 2 Hall of Champion inductions. In that ten years we missed 3 consecutive races in one year while we thrashed the boat. As Shooter can tell you, the boat was originally equipped with a capsule, and the balance of the boat was all wrong, and I was suffering engine failures that were totally uncalled for. So we took some time and attacked the problem. Those 3 races are the only races we missed in 10 years, But we licked the issues and never finished worse than 2nd in points from that point on.
Problem is, like Paul Fitzgerald told me, racing is like being an alcoholic. Winning is like being a heroin addict. Once you start winning, its like putting the needle in your arm. You'll sell kids to keep winning. And I did. So enticing me with 1,000.00 when I spent 5,000.00 to get it, isn't going to get it done. I need the needle.

[HB Vic]

A lot better visual then Homer Simpson, I think.

Lol ...

[GRADS]

You bastards...all this talk I had to run to the store.
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/10/19/ederemem.jpg

[SBS933]

You bastards...all this talk I had to run to the store.
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/10/19/ederemem.jpg Haha I keep a box of those in the freezer at all times.

[HB Vic]

The cave man art would be go carts, motocross, desert bikes and cars, and asphalt drags. Maybe a caricature of Fast Lane Fitz beating up on me in there somewhere too. :thumb: Guy drove everything like he stole it.
But no boats. That was after Christ.

Few outside the GN class with the exception of Shooter and Dave Rankin know how hard we struggled finding our way in this. Never raced a boat before 2002 and its a tougher gig than some think.
We started the 2002 season in Nov 2001 at Parker AZ as our first race. That's the race that we lost Lance Faulkner and Mike Hoban in the same weekend. That was enough to make 2 newbies quit right there. Bill got lapped 4 times in a 20 minute race and neither of us we all the enthused to continue. Rudy Ramos, Lanse Haselrig, and Mike's brother Pat convinced us not to. Trust me, we were out!!! Shooter had some footage of Bill driving and it was a reminder of where we started. It was not flattering to say the least.

I am one that if you are in, you are ALL IN! In the 10 years we ran from 2002 to 2012, we put the boat on the water more times, and earned more points than any other boat during that 10 years, by a lot. Drivers came and drivers went. We won 3 Hi points championships, and 2 Hall of Champion inductions. In that ten years we missed 3 consecutive races in one year while we thrashed the boat. As Shooter can tell you, the boat was originally equipped with a capsule, and the balance of the boat was all wrong, and I was suffering engine failures that were totally uncalled for. So we took some time and attacked the problem. Those 3 races are the only races we missed in 10 years, But we licked the issues and never finished worse than 2nd in points from that point on.
Problem is, like Paul Fitzgerald told me, racing is like being an alcoholic. Winning is like being a heroin addict. Once you start winning, its like putting the needle in your arm. You'll sell kids to keep winning. And I did. So enticing me with 1,000.00 when I spent 5,000.00 to get it, isn't going to get it done. I need the needle.

What made you get in to racing?

[FormulaZR]

What made you get in to racing?

It started by being the fastest in the tribe when the dinosaurs would chase them...

[gn7]

What made you get in to racing?

Never didn't race. Paul Fitzgerald who runs the SS 24 April boat and I grew up together. We race bicycles, then motorcycle, then ......
Never didn't race something from the time I could ride a bike. Conquer one form or get board and move to something else. I have always said, I was racing something before boats, and will race something after I am done with them. Too old for motorcycles. If Bills kid ever gets the bug, might build something for the drag strip that is suppose to go in near the Havasu Airport. When I am in a wheelchair, maybe RC boats or cars.
I can tell you this, of all the motorsports I have been involved with since a kid, boats is hands down the hardest to master, & MOST COSTLY of them all. When Fitzgerald saw me in Parker in 2001 after not seeing him for over 40 years, he told me, get ready to spent some stupid money. Rudy Ramos told me to get ready to flop your wallet. Both were dead ass on!
But I wouldn't trade the experience for anything. Its something I had to do, because it was something I hadn't done.

[HB Vic]

So what was your most memorable race? Which race was the hardest? And where did you come out in both of those?

[gn7]

So what was your most memorable race? Which race was the hardest? And where did you come out in both of those?

The enduro is the hardest by far, and we have never done well in it compared to other classes, but well enough within the GNs too lock up the championships and that's was the main goal in two of them. Being in the points lead going into the enduro forces you to run it differently than you would if in 2nd. Circle boat racing, and GNs in particular is a chess game and that took 3-4 seasons to figure out.
Winning Burely the last 3 years we have gone 2010, 11 and 12 is big for any team. That place is tuff, and its hands down one of the best places we race. Traveling 2400 miles round trip and spending a week doing it, and coming home with the trophy and points beats losing there anytime. Burley is like the hinge point of the season. You need to come out of Burley with the points lead, or its a uphill battle. Biggest disappointment is having never won Long Beach, but we are working on that. Only place we have never won,
Most memorable aside from one race at Burley, the same year, with very similar results was a race that Shooter video'd at Puddingstone in April. This was the race that we served notice that you better bring your A game to Burley in June. At Burley we lapped the entire field twice in 20 laps, in this vid he only laps them once in 10. This was the race where I knew I had the motor program worked out and the boat worked out, and now we could go racing, finally.

I owe Shooter a THANK YOU for getting this on video. Its not cheap for Jerry to do this kind of stuff, and there is virtually no return on his time, and money. If Jerry had not shot this video, this would only be a memory, as would all the races he has video'd. Nobody shoots a boat race like Jerry does. He is the best at what he does because he understands the races. The vid concentrates a lot on my boat, but that's because Jerry was using two cameras, one on the lead boat, one on all the others, but he never edited the two together, and this is the raw footage from the lead boat camera.
Jerry shot a similar video the following year, but Bill held back and stayed on the same lap because we no longer needed to test the boat or engine like we did in this vid. This was an severe acid test of the whole deal, boat, motor and Bill.

This race is a restart of the race the 29 boat flipped in.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hyI_0xlZD4A

This the is the 1st lap of the race prior to the one above.
The first 2 boat you see are gn7 and Robbie Devine(the current leader in SS PS and K for 2013) in GN47 and the boat that flips is Danny Bells GN 29 with Mike Johnson driving. You have no idea how close Mike came to drowning in this flip. His life jacket got hung up in the boat rigging and he was going down with the boat. Luckily he kept his head and freed the jacket. If you watch the 2nd vid you see Mike is lose of the boat, but then the boat scoops him back up, It happens all the time, more times than you can imagine. its weird!!!!, Second to the last frame he is still in the boat under water, then you see him in the last frames when the rescue arrives. But before rescue gets there, Mike is under water and they have no clue where he is.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cou_Bs3Y-8I&feature=related

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wBmyhhlXgVU

[RVR SWPR]

Great posts Bob.

[ChumpChange]

The highs and lows of a thread. Great posts!

[Wendi]

Very cool information and posts thanks GN7

[HB Vic]

I completely get the purse deal. Haven't been to a ton of races, but its evident by the sponsors, not to take anything away from them, but I've yet to see big network TV coverage or General Motors sponsoring a race these days. And I'm with you as far as a few hundred buck purse, not much you can do with that except buy some beer and pizza. Even a grand wouldn't make a noticeable difference on a engine refresh. Maybe a new set of tires for the trailer and a barrel of 110. So the motivator can't be cash, it has to be the kill. The hardware. The bragging rights. I think everyone here can appreciate and understand that. I would certainly like to see some hardware on my mantle, be a heck of a lot nicer than a couple pictures of my dog and some candles. So getting back to this points thing. Obviously points is a big part of any multi-circuit, multi-venue race, I don't think it matters if you're racing road bikes, dirt bikes, or Nascar. Without a points system you may as well just run one race a year. For us who do not understand, can you summarize the sticking points on why this particular race isn't being run on the points system? I think we all have a flavor of personalities involved, so no need really to visit that again :D I ask because I'm interested for future events, as I think many here are. What can be done to overcome this hurdle so more racers will be attracted and want to participate?

[gn7]

I completely get the purse deal. Haven't been to a ton of races, but its evident by the sponsors, not to take anything away from them, but I've yet to see big network TV coverage or General Motors sponsoring a race these days. And I'm with you as far as a few hundred buck purse, not much you can do with that except buy some beer and pizza. Even a grand wouldn't make a noticeable difference on a engine refresh. Maybe a new set of tires for the trailer and a barrel of 110. So the motivator can't be cash, it has to be the kill. The hardware. The bragging rights. I think everyone here can appreciate and understand that. I would certainly like to see some hardware on my mantle, be a heck of a lot nicer than a couple pictures of my dog and some candles. So getting back to this points thing. Obviously points is a big part of any multi-circuit, multi-venue race, I don't think it matters if you're racing road bikes, dirt bikes, or Nascar. Without a points system you may as well just run one race a year. For us who do not understand, can you summarize the sticking points on why this particular race isn't being run on the points system? I think we all have a flavor of personalities involved, so no need really to visit that again :D I ask because I'm interested for future events, as I think many here are. What can be done to overcome this hurdle so more racers will be attracted and want to participate?

Don't get me wrong. we all like money. whether its $1 or 10,000.00. That said I will tell you what the owner of the boat that won the first 300 enduro told Scott Schatz at the meeting we had with him. He told him that he won a check, and he couldn't remember how much it was for, or what he spent it on, but he knows where the flag and the trophy he won is. The flag is in the wall, and the trophy on his desk of his office, and he sees them everyday at work.
I understand why RD thinks money would have boats stampeding to the race. He's never raced and he doesn't get it. He is a businessman, blood in his veins runs green, a racer's smells like gasoline and methanol. They are different people. We also understand prize money and how it works. 6000 or 10,000 sound like a lot of money, until you divide it up, and then it becomes pretty small compared to the expense. At a normal weekend APBA race that costs about 2000 to run, so 1000 is a sizable chunk, but in a race that costs 5000-6000 plus the wear and tear on the boat, its not all that. Add in that the boat has to be ready to turn around and be at the season opener in 4 weeks, and it really begins to strain the wallet. So you need something more. Try to remember, most of the people running this do not race all year. This is their ONLY chance, so they jump on the chance. this race is a big deal to them. They get to run their river boat up and down the river, making a shit load of noise, not worrying about some wave runner or wake boat, not worrying about getting busted, showing off to the buddies, LAM, racing the boat next to them. Its all great fun. The APBA guys race all year, and they are tired, and worn out. Its the end of the season, boats trashed, and the season is starting over in November again. Its a GREAT season capper, but its not something that they are interested in running for shits and giggles. Specially if it looks like the format has them at some disadvantage to winning the over all, and I think there is.
The stumbling block is the speed limits imposed on the classes. You cannot penalize a boat running for championship points for going too fast. There is no provision for it in the rule book. When you do that, its no longer a race. Racing is who gets there first, not who keeps a schedule and arrives on time.

[HB Vic]

I don't want to end this thread with a final question. But I think a lot of people, myself included, want to know what is the solution? Is there a solution? I agree as far as speed limits in a race, what's the point? Isn't that why there are classes? What is the solution?

[gn7]

Its simple, get rid of the divisional speed limits. One course speed limit set by the APBA per insurance for safety reasons, not speed limits for individual classes.

[FormulaZR]

Racing is who gets there first, not who keeps a schedule and arrives on time.

So...in a way, the divisional speed limits turn this into a bracket race?

[gn7]

That's exactly what they do. But in bracket racing it is written into the rules and you have a rule book you can go to, point and say, your out. No such rule exists in APBA circle racing. You can be penalized a lap for going inside a buoy, or starting before the flag drops, but not for going too fast.
The entire race is a bracket race of sorts, because boats take off at different times, or in this race are given handicap laps, as opposed to a longer head start. But that's for the overall win. The overall in this is not how the points are given out for the GN class or CJs. Thats between them. Its a APBA race inside of the enduro. You can be 15th overall, but get 1st place GN points. But speeding because you are racing a GN next to for a lap can get you penalized a lap. or maybe both of you. It is theoretically possible, and even probable with the way some GNs choose to run the race, be to be too fast every lap. Because some GNs find a pace, and some roll the dice and hammer it the whole time and hope it holds up. Each boat runs the race as he chooses and thinks is the best way to win, Its all strategy. Each guy has his way of running the race. Like the rabbit and the hare.

[HB Vic]

GN7, what do the racers want?? Just a guess but I doubt no race/venue/governing body, can or will please all racers, classes or divisions. Someone will always get left out, whether intentional or otherwise. What would you like to see as a racer, keeping in mind we spectators want as much bang (for lack of a better word :D) for our buck.

[gn7]

NO PENALTIES FOR SPEED! It doesn't get any easier than that. Do not penalize a race boat for going too fast. They ran 7 previous 300 with no speed limit other than one limit that applied to all boats for insurance/APBA/safety reasons and that limit applied to every boat on the water, Not individual limits for each class.

[Deeboat]

The enduro is the hardest by far, and we have never done well in it compared to other classes, but well enough within the GNs too lock up the championships and that's was the main goal in two of them. Being in the points lead going into the enduro forces you to run it differently than you would if in 2nd. Circle boat racing, and GNs in particular is a chess game and that took 3-4 seasons to figure out.
Winning Burely the last 3 years we have gone 2010, 11 and 12 is big for any team. That place is tuff, and its hands down one of the best places we race. Traveling 2400 miles round trip and spending a week doing it, and coming home with the trophy and points beats losing there anytime. Burley is like the hinge point of the season. You need to come out of Burley with the points lead, or its a uphill battle. Biggest disappointment is having never won Long Beach, but we are working on that. Only place we have never won,
Most memorable aside from one race at Burley, the same year, with very similar results was a race that Shooter video'd at Puddingstone in April. This was the race that we served notice that you better bring your A game to Burley in June. At Burley we lapped the entire field twice in 20 laps, in this vid he only laps them once in 10. This was the race where I knew I had the motor program worked out and the boat worked out, and now we could go racing, finally.

I owe Shooter a THANK YOU for getting this on video. Its not cheap for Jerry to do this kind of stuff, and there is virtually no return on his time, and money. If Jerry had not shot this video, this would only be a memory, as would all the races he has video'd. Nobody shoots a boat race like Jerry does. He is the best at what he does because he understands the races. The vid concentrates a lot on my boat, but that's because Jerry was using two cameras, one on the lead boat, one on all the others, but he never edited the two together, and this is the raw footage from the lead boat camera.
Jerry shot a similar video the following year, but Bill held back and stayed on the same lap because we no longer needed to test the boat or engine like we did in this vid. This was an severe acid test of the whole deal, boat, motor and Bill.

This race is a restart of the race the 29 boat flipped in.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hyI_0xlZD4A

This the is the 1st lap of the race prior to the one above.
The first 2 boat you see are gn7 and Robbie Devine(the current leader in SS PS and K for 2013) in GN47 and the boat that flips is Danny Bells GN 29 with Mike Johnson driving. You have no idea how close Mike came to drowning in this flip. His life jacket got hung up in the boat rigging and he was going down with the boat. Luckily he kept his head and freed the jacket. If you watch the 2nd vid you see Mike is lose of the boat, but then the boat scoops him back up, It happens all the time, more times than you can imagine. its weird!!!!, Second to the last frame he is still in the boat under water, then you see him in the last frames when the rescue arrives. But before rescue gets there, Mike is under water and they have no clue where he is.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cou_Bs3Y-8I&feature=related

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wBmyhhlXgVU

Enjoy reading your post gnu two thumbs up over here

[78Southwind]

What advantage is there for running the enduro like it was a River Racer/Nostalgic type race (Is it the extra day of racing/qualifying or is a way for them to come up with a start/position strategy)? I just don't get it. Also, how are they keeping track of the Speeds (I know in Jet River Racer they have to have a GPS in the boat)?

[FormulaZR]

That's exactly what they do. But in bracket racing it is written into the rules and you have a rule book you can go to, point and say, your out. No such rule exists in APBA circle racing. You can be penalized a lap for going inside a buoy, or starting before the flag drops, but not for going too fast.
The entire race is a bracket race of sorts, because boats take off at different times, or in this race are given handicap laps, as opposed to a longer head start. But that's for the overall win. The overall in this is not how the points are given out for the GN class or CJs. Thats between them. Its a APBA race inside of the enduro. You can be 15th overall, but get 1st place GN points. But speeding because you are racing a GN next to for a lap can get you penalized a lap. or maybe both of you. It is theoretically possible, and even probable with the way some GNs choose to run the race, be to be too fast every lap. Because some GNs find a pace, and some roll the dice and hammer it the whole time and hope it holds up. Each boat runs the race as he chooses and thinks is the best way to win, Its all strategy. Each guy has his way of running the race. Like the rabbit and the hare.

That's how the run automotive endurance races - like the touring and GT cars. Doesn't make sense to have individual limits, at least not to me.

[gn7]

What advantage is there for running the enduro like it was a River Racer/Nostalgic type race (Is it the extra day of racing/qualifying or is a way for them to come up with a start/position strategy)? I just don't get it. Also, how are they keeping track of the Speeds (I know in Jet River Racer they have to have a GPS in the boat)?

As far as I know they are going to use lap times. You can exceed the speed limit any where on the course, which rules out the idea of it being a safety thing, If you KNOW you are too fast you can slow down before coming to the start/finish line. How you KNOW you are too fast is something else. Rally cars have co pilots that keep track of this stuff. So the enduro racer is suppose to keep track on a stop watch??? I have no clue?
I cannot tell the WHY, only that from the very beginning with this race, even when there were no handicap start, and the slower boats were racing for class win because they had no chance of an over all, there were still speed limits on the lower classes, but NONE on the top class. It pretty much assured that a top class boat would win. I was not intended to be a handicap type race. And that cool and I have problem with it being a heads up race, but why the speed limits on the lower classes?

Some how the idea of limiting the lower classes stuck even when it was changed to a handicap race.
My guess, the start times and speed limits will reflect a bias towards the top division. Won't know that until the times and lap handicaps are set on Friday. But its my guess. From the beginning, RD has shown he doesn't care for the race being won buy something other than the fastest boat on the water. I understand the thinking, but then just have a heads up race and do away with the handicap and no speed limits other than one for all boats for safety reasons, or do what was done in previous 300s and write the rules so boats that fast can't enter. You can't run a Indy car at a Nascar race. Nobody is ever going to allow a Unlimited hydro run the enduro. Limiting the type of boat engine size that can run has been done before. Its done is all forms of motor racing everyday. There are limits to Nascar, Indy, drags, Formula 1. Problem was, he found out vast majority of the entries wouldn't be there if he ran it as a heads up race with no handicap start. The majority of the boats are out there trying to win the overall.

[CampbellCarl]

I just wanted stop by and say hi before the name calling restarted and the thread got locked again.............

CC

[H2oSki2Fast]

My feeling is the handicap deal is a joke. It should be run like they do in off road. In the Baja races a 1-2 1600 car driver knows he doesn't have a chance at overall (unless something truly magical happens), and is racing against his class, not trophy trucks and class 1 cars. They all do so on the same course at the same time. They know if they want a chance to win overall they need to build a vehicle capable of doing that.

If you want to win the race overall, in the enduro, build a boat to compete in a class that has contentions for an overall victory.

If you want to cut down on closing speed, why limit the fastest class? Why not get rid of the slowest class? After all no one is there to watch a 60 mph boat, they can see that on any given weekend in Parker. The majority of spectators come to see the fast class, as with the circle races. Why do you think they put the SS, Gn's and K boats at the end of the day? If they put them earlier in the day, spectators would leave after seeing them run.

[ChumpChange]

Seems there is a lot of interest in this thread.

[HB Vic]

I just wanted stop by and say hi before the name calling restarted and the thread got locked again.............

CC

It's been pretty civil lately. Just a good discussion on racing.

[2FORCEFULL]

It's been pretty civil lately. Just a good discussion on racing.

somethings have to be aired , then get to the real business.... I don't have a boat in the race, or a dog in the fight, but all in all it's a pretty informational thread....I read it...

[H2oSki2Fast]

It's been pretty civil lately. Just a good discussion on racing.

We can change that! :wink:

[HB Vic]

We can change that! :wink:

Oh I know that, in a split second I'm sure :D

[gn7]

My feeling is the handicap deal is a joke. It should be run like they do in off road. In the Baja races a 1-2 1600 car driver knows he doesn't have a chance at overall (unless something truly magical happens), and is racing against his class, not trophy trucks and class 1 cars. They all do so on the same course at the same time. They know if they want a chance to win overall they need to build a vehicle capable of doing that.

If you want to win the race overall, in the enduro, build a boat to compete in a class that has contentions for an overall victory.

If you want to cut down on closing speed, why limit the fastest class? Why not get rid of the slowest class? After all no one is there to watch a 60 mph boat, they can see that on any given weekend in Parker. The majority of spectators come to see the fast class, as with the circle races. Why do you think they put the SS, Gn's and K boats at the end of the day? If they put them earlier in the day, spectators would leave after seeing them run.

I tend to agree with you. I stopped drag racing when bracket and E.T. classes started becoming the norm. But just like drag racing, it you get rid of it, the entries will tumble. Big time.
When the GNs run the enduro, they are too busy and concerned with where the other GNs are, specially if they are in the top 3-4 in the points. They are also too busy playing chess strategy with each other to bother noticing or caring where they are in the overall. The 2 GNs that have won the over all, never knew they were leading untll maybe 10 laps from the end, and then the decision is, do you push it to stay up front at risk of break the thing.

I personally have no problem with a heads up race. I think the fast boats have the right and deserve to win the over all because of the investment in those things. But I can assure you it will impact the entry count considerably. That was the belief RD had originally. Heads up, mass start like the old race, with the fast boats up front on the start. The idea was that class win would be good enough and the prize money would make up for the fact that you have no chance of the overall. Too many people don't see it that way, and that is exactly why the race was set up this way 8 years ago. I don't think you could ever come up eith enough money for somebody to pass on the overall win, and remember, the overall SHOULD get the bulk of the payout. The over all is a double pay out. Division win and overall. If try to pay the classes enough to not care about the overall, then you down play the over all win.

The reason the race died to start with was that in the early days, most of the boats were all pretty much equal. Some where high dollar, but the hulls and engines were all pretty much the same, you mainly had to endure. Then the factory outboards from Merc and Evinrude started showing up and ran away with every race, and the average guy said screw it and stopped coming.
I understand your thinking, and it is the normal thinking of those not racing it, but the reality is, I don't think that many boats will show up for a heads up race. Its something that was kicked around from the very start years ago, and it didn't get much response.
Now flip the thought, and say the top guns say screw this racing with handicaps, we're gone. You lose maybe 5 boats, as opposed to 25. You have to make the most people happy to get the most boats on the water. Most of the boats aren't in the caliber to run heads up for the overall.

[Sharp shooter]

I owe Shooter a THANK YOU for getting this on video. Its not cheap for Jerry to do this kind of stuff, and there is virtually no return on his time, and money. If Jerry had not shot this video, this would only be a memory, as would all the races he has video'd. Nobody shoots a boat race like Jerry does. He is the best at what he does because he understands the races. The vid concentrates a lot on my boat, but that's because Jerry was using two cameras, one on the lead boat, one on all the others, but he never edited the two together, and this is the raw footage from the lead boat camera.



Now that's a wave full of compliments! Thanks Bob!! It's very appreciated! :3:

[Stainless]

Did anyone get the email that came out at 8 PM?
It gives some details and drivers names.


CH3NO2

[HB Vic]

Did anyone get the email that came out at 8 PM?
It gives some details and drivers names.


CH3NO2

Pretty sure I'm not on RD's mailing list lol. You can post it up if you'd like.

[Stainless]

Pretty sure I'm not on RD's mailing list lol. You can post it up if you'd like.

I'll try and post it tomorrow from my PC.
If your interested PM your email and I will forward it tonight.


CH3NO2

[HB Vic]

I'll try and post it tomorrow from my PC.
If your interested PM your email and I will forward it tonight.


CH3NO2

vic@hotboat.com

[Stainless]

vic@hotboat.com

On it's way.


CH3NO2

[GRADS]

Seems there is a lot of interest in this thread.

It was interesting and then people started stating facts and it went down hill. It needs more bullshit and drama!!!

[HB Vic]

On it's way.


CH3NO2

Got it, thank you. For those who are racing, attending, or are interested. I did not copy any links, sorry. For Immediate Release


Parker, Ariz. (Oct, 25, 2013) - The roar of the Parker Enduro 336 will soonsilence the bar room bench racing and Internet chatter. Expanded from a one-dayto a two-day event (because why wait all year for just one day) the stage isset for a rapid-fire modified lemans start that will see seven divisions ofrace boats launch all within the first lap of the contest.

The intensity for this event is still building with a number of inboardpilots looking to upset the outboard drivers as they did two years ago. TheFriday qualifying/practice session and the following "handicap reset"is sure to make this one anybody's race... As the finish times will besynchronized before Saturday's start with the aim of having all divisionsrunning for the checkered flag!

Extending the course from 6-miles to 12-miles (pin-to-pin, excluding thecorners, as measure by (GPS), adds another dimension to the challenge. Inaddition to the slight dogleg at Badenoches, racers will now have to find a wayto navigate the s-bend from Lakeside to Emerald Cove. Set-up and handling willcertainly be a factor and may favor alternative set-ups, boats, or drivers.

Entries for the Parker Enduro 336 continue to roll in for the Oct 25 and 26event. New drivers include Joe Masek in division VI and Todd Stone who istraveling all the way from Oklahoma to race alongside his son in division II,celebrating his 21st Birthday!

BlueWater Casino Resort and the Pirate's Den Resort will certainly providethe best viewing areas and off-track accommodations and entertainment of alifetime. Experienced returning drivers include Chad Hill, Greg Foster, ChipWatkins and Greg Gluck... all Champions of previous Parker Enduro races. Gluckbeing the last Inboard to win.

This year's 28-lap, 336 mile boat race promises to provide 100+ mph racingaction as they enter the turns located at the Blue Water Resort and Casino, andthe Pirates Den creating lasting memories for teams and fans alike. Fans arewelcomed to view the race from the Beach areas of the Blue Water Resort &Casino or enjoy the laid back atmosphere of the outside bar and cabanas of thePirates Den. Drivers, you can't earn bragging rights or win unless you enter,so now is the time to review the official rules and submit your entry. Thedivisional and overall winners will come down to man and machine: driver, boat,motor, prop, and crew.

RACE DATE: OCTOBER 25 (Qualifying/Practice) and 26 (Enduro 336), 2013(Weather make-up date is Sunday October 27, 2013)

REGISTRATION: Must be in before October 25, 2013 (prior to Fridayqualifying) and the race on Saturday. October 25, 2013. Late registration andinspection after this time but before the race is at the sole discretion of theChief Inspector & Referee.

[HB Vic]

Does anyone know the actual schedule?? Qualifying on Thursday, racing Friday and Saturday or? Very slim possibility we might roll out Sat am and watch from the dock. Edit: Looks like qualifying is Friday afternoon and racing on Saturday

[Bobby V]

Blue Water Resort & Casino Parker 336 Enduro

Schedule Of Events

Thursday October 24, 2013

Pit Area Open For Set Up and Race Team Arrival

Registration Open At the Blue Water Cantina 4:00pm to 7:00pm

Friday October 25, 2013

7:30 am Race Course Set Up Begins

Volunteer Meeting 8:00 am At The Blue Water Cantina

Registration 8:00 am To 12:00 noon At The Blue Water Cantina

Safety and Rescue Meeting 10:00 am At The Blue Water Cantina

Drivers Meeting For Stock Outboard 12:00 noon At The Blue Water Cantina

Drivers Meeting For Enduro Testing And Qualifying 12;30 pm At The Blue

Water Cantina

Stock Outboard Racing 1:00pm to 2:30 At Blue Water

Enduro Testing And Qualifying 2:30pm to 5:00 pm Full Course

Scorer Meeting 5:30 pm At The Judges Stand

Event Staff And Race Teams Dinner Party At Pirates Den 6:00 pm

Enduro Drivers Meeting At Pirates Den Stage 7:30 pm

Saturday October 26, 2013

7:30 am Stock Outboard Drivers Meeting At The Blue Water Cantina

8:00 am To 9:30 am Stock Outboard Racing at Blue Water

9:30 am Enduro Warm Up Lap

10:00 am To 3:00 Enduro 336 Full River Course

3:30 pm To 5:00 pm Stock Outboard Finals At Blue Water

7:00 pm Awards Presentation At Blue Water Resort And Casino

[HB Vic]

Thank you. I removed the question marks, I assume that was a copy paste error dealio.

[FormulaZR]

Blue Water Resort & Casino Parker 336 Enduro

Schedule Of Events

Thursday October 24, 2013

• Pit Area Open For Set Up and Race Team Arrival

• Registration Open At the Blue Water Cantina 4:00pm to 7:00pm

Friday October 25, 2013

• 7:30 am Race Course Set Up Begins

• Volunteer Meeting 8:00 am At The Blue Water Cantina

• Registration 8:00 am To 12:00 noon At The Blue Water Cantina

• Safety and Rescue Meeting 10:00 am At The Blue Water Cantina

• Drivers Meeting For Stock Outboard 12:00 noon At The Blue Water Cantina

• Drivers Meeting For Enduro Testing And Qualifying 12;30 pm At The Blue

Water Cantina

• Stock Outboard Racing 1:00pm to 2:30 At Blue Water

• Enduro Testing And Qualifying 2:30pm to 5:00 pm Full Course

• Scorer Meeting 5:30 pm At The Judges Stand

• Event Staff And Race Teams Dinner Party At Pirates Den 6:00 pm

• Enduro Drivers Meeting At Pirates Den Stage 7:30 pm

Saturday October 26, 2013

• 7:30 am Stock Outboard Drivers Meeting At The Blue Water Cantina

• 8:00 am To 9:30 am Stock Outboard Racing at Blue Water

• 9:30 am Enduro Warm Up Lap

• 10:00 am To 3:00 Enduro 336 Full River Course

• 3:30 pm To 5:00 pm Stock Outboard Finals At Blue Water

• 7:00 pm Awards Presentation At Blue Water Resort And Casino

From earlier today.

[HB Vic]

Are the stock outboards running a shortened course? Guess I should find the rules somewhere and read them. And is there a list of entries yet?? I'm interested to see who's running the Enduro.

[Sharp shooter]

Are the stock outboards running a shortened course? .

Yes they are. They will be runnin their usual course in front of the pits Friday afternoon and Saturday morning. This info provided by the Miner Motion racing team. :)

[riverbound]

Are the stock outboards running a shortened course? Guess I should find the rules somewhere and read them. And is there a list of entries yet?? I'm interested to see who's running the Enduro.

I am. Boat 321

[Wendi]

I am. Boat 321Awesome Bill, good luck to you!!!

[HB Vic]

I am. Boat 321

In the Stoker?

[H2oSki2Fast]

In the Stoker?

Lynch's Force.

[HB Vic]

Lynch's Force.

Cool. That's a bad ass boat.

[H2oSki2Fast]

Are the stock outboards running a shortened course? Guess I should find the rules somewhere and read them. And is there a list of entries yet?? I'm interested to see who's running the Enduro.

That's some funny shit right there!

[HB Vic]

That's some funny shit right there!

Is it? Didn't mean for it to be. In the past I'm pretty sure I've seen an entrants list. But I could be wrong.

[Skyskier]

Blue Water Resort & Casino Parker 336 Enduro

Schedule Of Events

Thursday October 24, 2013

Pit Area Open For Set Up and Race Team Arrival

Registration Open At the Blue Water Cantina 4:00pm to 7:00pm

Friday October 25, 2013

7:30 am Race Course Set Up Begins

Volunteer Meeting 8:00 am At The Blue Water Cantina

Registration 8:00 am To 12:00 noon At The Blue Water Cantina

Safety and Rescue Meeting 10:00 am At The Blue Water Cantina

Drivers Meeting For Stock Outboard 12:00 noon At The Blue Water Cantina

Drivers Meeting For Enduro Testing And Qualifying 12;30 pm At The Blue

Water Cantina

Stock Outboard Racing 1:00pm to 2:30 At Blue Water

Enduro Testing And Qualifying 2:30pm to 5:00 pm Full Course

Scorer Meeting 5:30 pm At The Judges Stand

Event Staff And Race Teams Dinner Party At Pirates Den 6:00 pm

Enduro Drivers Meeting At Pirates Den Stage 7:30 pm

Saturday October 26, 2013

7:30 am Stock Outboard Drivers Meeting At The Blue Water Cantina

8:00 am To 9:30 am Stock Outboard Racing at Blue Water

9:30 am Enduro Warm Up Lap

10:00 am To 3:00 Enduro 336 Full River Course

3:30 pm To 5:00 pm Stock Outboard Finals At Blue Water

7:00 pm Awards Presentation At Blue Water Resort And Casino

so now it's just a outboard race ?................

[Wheeler]

Denny, I've seen some inboards on the river practicing for the race.

Has your Father arrived in Parker?

[Skyskier]

Denny, I've seen some inboards on the river practicing for the race.

Has your Father arrived in Parker?

He's leaving Idaho tomorrow , should be in Monday unless he catches a good tailwind , I'm still debating coming in today or tomorrow ? all I can find on the "race" is a bunch of "outboards" running ???? might just stay up on "millionaires" row an start getting ready to paint an get the awning/slab project going.

[Wheeler]

He's leaving Idaho tomorrow , should be in Monday unless he catches a good tailwind , I'm still debating coming in today or tomorrow ? all I can find on the "race" is a bunch of "outboards" running ???? might just stay up on "millionaires" row an start getting ready to paint an get the awning/slab project going.

There are inboards running the race this year, don't be a pussy!

We can always root for lynch and Billdo.:thumb:

[Stainless]

I am. Boat 321
Good luck RB...I would like to see an Outboard win it.

[Wheeler]

Good luck RB...I would like to see an Outboard win it.

He would just invest the money in oil. :wink:

[Skyskier]

There are inboards running the race this year, don't be a pussy!

We can always root for lynch and Billdo.:thumb:

Nothing against outboards, just not my kinda "race boats", kinda like motorcycle racing, some people like supercross/mx racing, me ? I much prefer flat track, I raced both back in the day, and, I grew up on flat bottom boats with the ski racing, going to the Salton City 500, Elsinore 500, Berryesa an the like. Marilyn's "honeydoo list" is getting longer by the minute, MAYBE I'll just stay here at the ranch an mend fences :jumping-smiley-019:

[H2oSki2Fast]

He's leaving Idaho tomorrow , should be in Monday unless he catches a good tailwind , I'm still debating coming in today or tomorrow ? all I can find on the "race" is a bunch of "outboards" running ???? might just stay up on "millionaires" row an start getting ready to paint an get the awning/slab project going.

Go back and reread the post you quoted. There is a stock OB race, before the Enduro starts. Most likely to keep people entertained.

As far as ski racing behind flat bottoms, time to move on, it's a thing of the past. The equipment and skis have, for the lack of a better word, surpassed the flat bottoms' capabilities.

[Skyskier]

Go back and reread the post you quoted. There is a stock OB race, before the Enduro starts. Most likely to keep people entertained.

As far as ski racing behind flat bottoms, time to move on, it's a thing of the past. The equipment and skis have, for the lack of a better word, surpassed the flat bottoms' capabilities.

I read it the 1st time in case YOU missed it : Stock Outboard Racing 1:00pm to 2:30 At Blue Water...8:00 am To 9:30 am Stock Outboard Racing at Blue Water.;..3:30 pm To 5:00 pm Stock Outboard Finals At Blue Water................as far as the flat bottoms being "surpassed" as YOU put it,....when's the last time YOU guy's had to have a "HEAT RACE" you know, because YOU had so many SKIERS entered you couldn't run them all in one race. ?.......so much for progressing the sport huh ?

[Wheeler]

As far as ski racing behind flat bottoms, time to move on, it's a thing of the past. The equipment and skis have, for the lack of a better word, surpassed the flat bottoms' capabilities.

Where are you going to be hanging out at Dennis?

[pvhca1]

I read it the 1st time in case YOU missed it : Stock Outboard Racing 1:00pm to 2:30 At Blue Water...8:00 am To 9:30 am Stock Outboard Racing at Blue Water.;..3:30 pm To 5:00 pm Stock Outboard Finals At Blue Water................as far as the flat bottoms being "surpassed" as YOU put it,....when's the last time YOU guy's had to have a "HEAT RACE" you know, because YOU had so many SKIERS entered you couldn't run them all in one race. ?.......so much for progressing the sport huh ?

SS, give "DirtLot" all the shit you can dish out, that loud mouth needs to quit dropping names, BS and misinformed info, LOL!!

[pvhca1]

Where are you going to be hanging out at Dennis?

Apache Loop!!

[H2oSki2Fast]

Blue Water Resort & Casino Parker 336 Enduro

Schedule Of Events

Thursday October 24, 2013

Pit Area Open For Set Up and Race Team Arrival

Registration Open At the Blue Water Cantina 4:00pm to 7:00pm

Friday October 25, 2013

7:30 am Race Course Set Up Begins

Volunteer Meeting 8:00 am At The Blue Water Cantina

Registration 8:00 am To 12:00 noon At The Blue Water Cantina

Safety and Rescue Meeting 10:00 am At The Blue Water Cantina

Drivers Meeting For Stock Outboard 12:00 noon At The Blue Water Cantina

Drivers Meeting For Enduro Testing And Qualifying 12;30 pm At The Blue

Water Cantina

Stock Outboard Racing 1:00pm to 2:30 At Blue Water

Enduro Testing And Qualifying 2:30pm to 5:00 pm Full Course

Scorer Meeting 5:30 pm At The Judges Stand

Event Staff And Race Teams Dinner Party At Pirates Den 6:00 pm

Enduro Drivers Meeting At Pirates Den Stage 7:30 pm

Saturday October 26, 2013

7:30 am Stock Outboard Drivers Meeting At The Blue Water Cantina

8:00 am To 9:30 am Stock Outboard Racing at Blue Water

9:30 am Enduro Warm Up Lap

10:00 am To 3:00 Enduro 336 Full River Course

3:30 pm To 5:00 pm Stock Outboard Finals At Blue Water

7:00 pm Awards Presentation At Blue Water Resort And Casino

Yep, you got it all figured out! Now GO BACK AND REREAD THE POST YOU QUOTED!

[H2oSki2Fast]

Where are you going to be hanging out at Dennis?

Most likely, Lynch's or Bildo's.


SS, give "DirtLot" all the shit you can dish out, that loud mouth needs to quit dropping names, BS and misinformed info, LOL!!

I guess it's all about reading comprehension?


Apache Loop!!

Not a chance!

[H2oSki2Fast]

I read it the 1st time in case YOU missed it : Stock Outboard Racing 1:00pm to 2:30 At Blue Water...8:00 am To 9:30 am Stock Outboard Racing at Blue Water.;..3:30 pm To 5:00 pm Stock Outboard Finals At Blue Water................as far as the flat bottoms being "surpassed" as YOU put it,....when's the last time YOU guy's had to have a "HEAT RACE" you know, because YOU had so many SKIERS entered you couldn't run them all in one race. ?.......so much for progressing the sport huh ?

You must seriously have a problem with reading comprehension. What does "when's the last time YOU guy's had to have a "HEAT RACE"" have to do with anything I said? At least quote my whole sentence, and not just a part of it, if you are going to quote it.

As far as why the numbers are down, I feel, Mike G (Rex Marine) said it best "A basic problem I think that was mentioned elsewhere is kids now grow up boarding. Water skiing is not the cool thing any more. Most are never even exposed to water skiing now, either in practice or through advertising. Also, there are so many activities to compete with in the southwest it is tough."

Although numbers are down, I am still involved, why aren't you?

[76Bonneville]

Never been here on a Thursday. When do the boats show up. 2 GN'S and some outboards so far.

[gn7]

Probably later today. some people do work for a living. Specially if you are running that race. Plan on seeing a lot more outboards than inboards.

[WESTERNAERO]

Probably later today. some people do work for a living. Specially if you are running that race. Plan on seeing a lot more outboards than inboards.

You're not going to be there??:nutswinger:

[76Bonneville]

Probably later today. some people do work for a living. Specially if you are running that race. Plan on seeing a lot more outboards than inboards.
I'm working Bob. Just delivered some stuff for Terry V. to Phoenix. Thought I would swing by Parker on my way back to San Diego. GN 77 and 92 are here, but other than that all clamp on's. Will hang out for a couple hours and see what rolls in.

[Skyskier]

Go back and reread the post you quoted. There is a stock OB race, before the Enduro starts. Most likely to keep people entertained.

As far as ski racing behind flat bottoms, time to move on, it's a thing of the past. The equipment and skis have, for the lack of a better word, surpassed the flat bottoms' capabilities.


You must seriously have a problem with reading comprehension. What does "when's the last time YOU guy's had to have a "HEAT RACE"" have to do with anything I said? At least quote my whole sentence, and not just a part of it, if you are going to quote it.



As far as why the numbers are down, I feel, Mike G (Rex Marine) said it best "A basic problem I think that was mentioned elsewhere is kids now grow up boarding. Water skiing is not the cool thing any more. Most are never even exposed to water skiing now, either in practice or through advertising. Also, there are so many activities to compete with in the southwest it is tough."

Although numbers are down, I am still involved, why aren't you?

Dipshit quotes above are from YOU ( I made the one really really big so YOU could read it ) since you seem to be such a voracious reader, try to wrap your mind around the article attached here, 180 SKIERS at ONE race over TWO DAY's of racing. It's more than obvious too me that the "FLAT BOTTOMS" were capable of FILLING RACE VENUES. I look at the LOW number of racers that show up at the ski races these day's, hell I doubt you get 180 "skiers" a year in all races combined, yet YOU say the "FLAT BOTTOM's" have been "surpassed" ? AND don't EVEN bring up "the catalina ski race, greatest ski race in the world", shit, back in the day we'd get upwards of 120 or more boat/ski teams, most of them 18 ft. "ski race boats", and an occasional 20 ft. day cruiser type. Run along now son, you ARE too young, too dumb and way UNDER equipped to debate me on the history of waterski racing. I'm NOT into it anymore, I'm old an had my "day in the sun" and ENJOYED it to the fullest. In closing, I would suggest you seek some professional help, I can see my post's on the glory day's waterski racing are just eating at you, just let it go man, it will NEVER be like it WAS, FACT.
22860

[Stainless]

Probably later today. some people do work for a living. Specially if you are running that race. Plan on seeing a lot more outboards than inboards.

Awesome! Hope an outboard wins. :D


CH3NO2

[Skyskier]

:wtf:AND , BTW, there are THREE outboard races, NOT ONE, ..................reading comprehension ?:fsakes:wtf:

[gn7]

Teague (77) has probably been there for little while. Not sure who the 92 is. That number belonged to Rudy Ramos for along time.

[Stainless]

:wtf:AND , BTW, there are THREE outboard races, NOT ONE, ..................reading comprehension ?:fsakes:wtf:

Three outboard races, this is getting awesomer! RD rocks! :D


CH3NO2

[HB Vic]

Well this has been a bit of a surprise. I was sure GN7 would be the one to close up this thread, again, but thank you GN7 for being extremely civilized and generous in providing a ton of good information to all of us. I certainly appreciate it. Now there seems to be some sort of other hair raising battle going on and to be honest, I'm not even sure whats it all about. And I honestly don't want to know at this point. So, unless we can all play, I lock it up once again. Please don't think you're gonna get your last jab in before I do, because I'll just delete it. So, whats it gonna be? :D

[gn7]

22860

Skyskier, the guy that drives my GN owns the Rayson LP (Ponytail)that is in that article. His dad bought it from Dick Williams in 1970 and its been in the family ever since. Still has it.

[Stainless]

Well this has been a bit of a surprise. I was sure GN7 would be the one to close up this thread, again, but thank you GN7 for being extremely civilized and generous in providing a ton of good information to all of us. I certainly appreciate it. Now there seems to be some sort of other hair raising battle going on and to be honest, I'm not even sure whats it all about. And I honestly don't want to know at this point. So, unless we can all play, I lock it up once again. Please don't think you're gonna get your last jab in before I do, because I'll just delete it. So, whats it gonna be? :D

Can you at least give Bob time to read my appreciation of how this is becoming a race for outboards. I wish I could be in attendance now. :D


CH3NO2

[Skyskier]

Skyskier, the guy that drives my GN owns the Rayson LP (Ponytail)that is in that article. His dad bought it from Dick Williams in 1970 and its been in the family ever since. Still has it.

I've been in touch with one of Dick's grandson's, said he hadn't seen a lot of the old pics of Dick sr, Dickie & Leslie, the whole Williams family was one of the families that made ski racing what it once was, absolutely the most fun I ever had in my 66 years.

[gn7]

Well this has been a bit of a surprise. I was sure GN7 would be the one to close up this thread, again, but thank you GN7 for being extremely civilized and generous in providing a ton of good information to all of us. I certainly appreciate it. Now there seems to be some sort of other hair raising battle going on and to be honest, I'm not even sure whats it all about. And I honestly don't want to know at this point. So, unless we can all play, I lock it up once again. Please don't think you're gonna get your last jab in before I do, because I'll just delete it. So, whats it gonna be? :D
Its basically a pissing match about whether flat bottoms are better than the current ski boats.
I can settle pretty easy. Flat bottoms built ski racing. V bottoms will be the death of ski racing. The proof is in the history, not speculation.

Can you at least give Bob time to read my appreciation of how this is becoming a race for outboards. I wish I could be in attendance now. :D


CH3NO2

Personally, I'd rather watch paint dry than watch 100 outboards run the Parker enduro. I lived thru those years. Its why it died, and fizzled into history. Nobody cared.

[Stainless]

Its basically a pissing match about whether flat bottoms are better than the current ski boats.
I can settle pretty easy. Flat bottoms built ski racing. V bottoms will be the death of ski racing. The proof is in the history, not speculation.


Personally, I'd rather watch paint dry than watch 100 outboards run the Parker enduro. I lived thru those years. Its why it died, and fizzled into history. Nobody cared.

Jeez Bob, you didn't even give me a smilie with that kick in the nuts. :D
Btw, I have two OB's on the back of mine, you know to make up for the non-believers. :p


CH3NO2

[HB Vic]

Its basically a pissing match about whether flat bottoms are better than the current ski boats.
I can settle pretty easy. Flat bottoms built ski racing. V bottoms will be the death of ski racing. The proof is in the history, not speculation.


Personally, I'd rather watch paint dry than watch 100 outboards run the Parker enduro. I lived thru those years. Its why it died, and fizzled into history. Nobody cared.

I'm ok with a pissing match, as long as it doesn't get personal. If these two guys are friends and they're just badgering eachother, I'm ok with that too. But it doesn't read that way to me.

[Skyskier]

I'm ok with a pissing match, as long as it doesn't get personal. If these two guys are friends and they're just badgering eachother, I'm ok with that too. But it doesn't read that way to me.

no pissing match, young buck came in , gun's blazing an I put him in his place. I'm over it, actually never was " on " it :smile: , just stated a few "FACTS", nothing more, nothing less, certainly nothing personal on MY behalf.:wink:

[78Southwind]

Awesome! Hope an outboard wins. :D


CH3NO2

Outboards are for Pontoon boats...22863 :wink_002:

[gn7]

I'm ok with a pissing match, as long as it doesn't get personal. If these two guys are friends and they're just badgering eachother, I'm ok with that too. But it doesn't read that way to me.

No, more like a passionate discussion of the "new guard" can kick ass on the "old guard". Not to hard now that the "old guard" in their 60s and 70s.
I'd love to see some of young Turks get their asses towed to Catalina behind a 18ft flat and match the times they were running back then.
The sport was built up by the flat bottom v drives. Its hey day was the flat bottom years.

[H2oSki2Fast]

Dipshit quotes above are from YOU ( I made the one really really big so YOU could read it ) since you seem to be such a voracious reader, try to wrap your mind around the article attached here, 180 SKIERS at ONE race over TWO DAY's of racing. It's more than obvious too me that the "FLAT BOTTOMS" were capable of FILLING RACE VENUES. I look at the LOW number of racers that show up at the ski races these day's, hell I doubt you get 180 "skiers" a year in all races combined, yet YOU say the "FLAT BOTTOM's" have been "surpassed" ? AND don't EVEN bring up "the catalina ski race, greatest ski race in the world", shit, back in the day we'd get upwards of 120 or more boat/ski teams, most of them 18 ft. "ski race boats", and an occasional 20 ft. day cruiser type. Run along now son, you ARE too young, too dumb and way UNDER equipped to debate me on the history of waterski racing. I'm NOT into it anymore, I'm old an had my "day in the sun" and ENJOYED it to the fullest. In closing, I would suggest you seek some professional help, I can see my post's on the glory day's waterski racing are just eating at you, just let it go man, it will NEVER be like it WAS, FACT.


You don't even have the intellect to have this conversation. I never said, as you are inferring, that flat bottoms didn't have an integral part of ski racing, they did, and I am still a fan of flat bottoms as that's what I was raised around. Where are the flat bottoms now? When was the last time you saw one in a ski race? There is a reason for it.

The article you posted, which you seem to re-post every time the subject of ski racing comes up, is just typical of the deflection of what was said and your lack to grasp the understanding of words comprised into sentences.

You want to know when you lose an intellectual debate, when you have nothing else to say except for insults, as you have done.

Your senility has you convinced that there is nothing else in the world, except the way you did it in the past. I guess that's the part I am least looking forward to about getting old, is not being able to embrace what technology has to offer, and being jaded because it wasn't there when I was in my prime.

[HB Vic]

No, more like a passionate discussion of the "new guard" can kick ass on the "old guard". Not to hard now that the "old guard" in their 60s and 70s.
I'd love to see some of young Turks get their asses towed to Catalina behind a 18ft flat and match the times they were running back then.
The sport was built up by the flat bottom v drives. Its hey day was the flat bottom years.
Well that's easy, have you ever seen a "Young Guys Rule" T shirt?? :D

[HB Vic]

Outboards are for Pontoon boats...22863 :wink_002:

Nicely themed pot stirrer :D

[gn7]

They can whip up a kick ass batch of margaritas on a 55 gal drum too.
When I go boating, I want to hear an engine that reminds me of something other than yard work.

[WMC]

Let's get back on track. If see the Hotboat.com banner wave I'll be taking pictures. Location on the river



sent from WMC's phone

[Skyskier]

No, more like a passionate discussion of the "new guard" can kick ass on the "old guard". Not to hard now that the "old guard" in their 60s and 70s.
I'd love to see some of young Turks get their asses towed to Catalina behind a 18ft flat and match the times they were running back then.
The sport was built up by the flat bottom v drives. Its hey day was the flat bottom years.

Bob, I'm pretty sure you knew Bob Nordskog ? He pulled Tim Guckes in the catalina, back "in the old day's", I'm guessing maybe 1965/66, they got out near the breakwater the boat wasn't running up to snuff. They turned around came back dropped Tim an switched boats. Took off AGAIN, BEHIND every other entry that year, made it over AND back in 58 minutes. Un-fortunately Bob did NOT get the official "record" as it was NOT the boat they started with. Tim said he saw Bob some years later an Bob was STILL pissed they didn't get "the record" time. I'm probably NOW gonna have to have this "post" signed in blood by Tim as Bob is no longer here to substantiate this as truth, and, I'll probably have to have it notarized for "the young guns" for them to believe that one of the so called "surpassed" flat bottoms could actually do this record run 25 years BEFORE one of the v-bottoms could. Truth be told, I don't know what year the official "under an hour" time was made, I try to speak only in factual terms so, I'll let one of the " young guns" scurry off to wikipedia or whatever they get THEIR fact's from, or MAYBE he bring his uncle Mike in to speak for him.

[Stainless]

They can whip up a kick ass batch of margaritas on a 55 gal drum too.
When I go boating, I want to hear an engine that reminds me of something other than yard work.

Bob, your pretty hard to match wits with, I'm gonna have to think on this one for a little while. ;)


CH3NO2

[Skyskier]

You don't even have the intellect to have this conversation. I never said, as you are inferring, that flat bottoms didn't have an integral part of ski racing, they did, and I am still a fan of flat bottoms as that's what I was raised around. Where are the flat bottoms now? When was the last time you saw one in a ski race? There is a reason for it.

The article you posted, which you seem to re-post every time the subject of ski racing comes up, is just typical of the deflection of what was said and your lack to grasp the understanding of words comprised into sentences.

You want to know when you lose an intellectual debate, when you have nothing else to say except for insults, as you have done.

Your senility has you convinced that there is nothing else in the world, except the way you did it in the past. I guess that's the part I am least looking forward to about getting old, is not being able to embrace what technology has to offer, and being jaded because it wasn't there when I was in my prime.

Jeseus, this REALLY IS eating at you isn't it ? I posted this what ? 6, 8 YEARS AGO ? ..........glad to see I made such an impression, but sorry to see it's having such an impact on YOUR life. And being jaded ?? puleez, it was ALL THERE in MY prime, I skied with ALL THE BEST that ever put on a racing ski, won a few, lost a few, but RACE we did. I don't think you'll EVER see 8 boats going into that 1st turn down at the Casino at the same time again anytime soon. Like I said, let it go, you'll be a better "old man" for it when you grow up. :wink2:

[Sharp shooter]

I've found that the average modern day boaters don't even know what flatbottom boats are! In fact, I pulled up at the sandbar a good 10 years ago with my buddy Greg Sorenson in his Hondo runner and people were asking us what the hell kind of boat this was. They had never seen one before!!!!

I've had to prove with old literature (more times than I care to mention) articles proving flatbottoms once raced out in the open ocean! Most people don't even believe a flatty can survive on Havasu much less ripping a catalina trip.

Back in the day, whether it was ski racing, endurance racing or simply having fun performance boating- people were less needy, lower maintenance and just plain tougher IMO.

My dad used to tow his boats to the river occasionally uncorked and on slicks (pulling a 4.56 gear)! lol The good old days! :D

http://www.v-drivevideo.net/pictures/albums/userpics/Page_11.jpg

[Wheeler]

Awesome! Hope an outboard wins. :D

What are you, a Democrat? :D

[Stainless]

What are you, a Democrat? :D

Fuck you Bob, that was really low. :D


CH3NO2

[gn7]

I'm working Bob. Just delivered some stuff for Terry V. to Phoenix. Thought I would swing by Parker on my way back to San Diego. GN 77 and 92 are here, but other than that all clamp on's. Will hang out for a couple hours and see what rolls in.


Teague (77) has probably been there for little while. Not sure who the 92 is. That number belonged to Rudy Ramos for along time.

I was just informed that GN92 is Paul "fast lane" Fitzgerald. Makes sense that number would be on his boat. Should be a boat to watch.

[Wendi]

I was just informed that GN92 is Paul "fast lane" Fitzgerald. Makes sense that number would be on his boat. Should be a boat to watch.

We will get some pictures!!!

[WESTERNAERO]

We will get some pictures!!!

Thought you guys weren't going.

[HB Vic]

Thought you guys weren't going.

It depends on which one you ask LOL Be more specific and you might get a yes, or a no :D

[Wendi]

Thought you guys weren't going.

We will be at the best dock on the river taking pics!!

[gn7]

We will be at the best dock on the river taking pics!!

So I take it you either haven't seen the signs, or you are a non conforming rebel. Per the "race director" stay off the docks and beaches during the race. Designated viewing areas only are acceptable.
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/10/24/thumbnail/sa7ujude.jpg

[Wendi]

So I take it you either haven't seen the signs, or you are a non conforming rebel. Per the "race director" stay off the docks and beaches during the race. Designated viewing areas only are acceptable.
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/10/24/thumbnail/sa7ujude.jpg

GN7 I break rules

[gn7]

GN7 I break rules

You and that out of control party animal living in Eli's head. I guess girls just want to have fun.
Let us know if you need bail.

[WMC]

So I take it you either haven't seen the signs, or you are a non conforming rebel. Per the "race director" stay off the docks and beaches during the race. Designated viewing areas only are acceptable.
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/10/24/thumbnail/sa7ujude.jpg

This is funny did they rent all the docks and beaches

[HB Vic]

GN7 I break rules

So are you saying we'll see pics of you on a dock in front of this sign soon??

[Wendi]

So are you saying we'll see pics of you on a dock in front of this sign soon??

I'm going to wear the sign

[Slacker]

GN7 I break rules

That's what i like to hear!!

[HB Vic]

I'm going to wear the sign

I wonder what happened to the letters?? why are they all scratched out?

[Wendi]

I wonder what happened to the letters?? why are they all scratched out?

They are going for the historic look

[HB Vic]

They are going for the historic look

That was intentional? sorry, my bad.

[Slacker]

I'm going to wear the sign


Cammando?

[Wheeler]

This is funny did they rent all the docks and beaches

As I understand it, once you place your dock in the water as a permanent fixture, it is no longer under your control.

[gn7]

That was intentional? sorry, my bad.
I think they call that look 'distressed' :shhh:

[WESTERNAERO]

I think they call that look 'distressed' :shhh:
Are you sure Bob? I thought you might be venting on that flyer with a sharp fork or something.

[WMC]

As I understand it, once you place your dock in the water as a permanent fixture, it is no longer under your control.
What about the beaches?

[HB Vic]

What about the beaches?

Please make sure you are not wearing any Hotboat garb when the Sheriff loads the both of you in the cruiser for breaking the law. The paparazzi will have a field day with that :D

[Stainless]

Please make sure you are not wearing any Hotboat garb when the Sheriff loads the both of you in the cruiser for breaking the law. The paparazzi will have a field day with that :D

Lmfao


CH3NO2

[GotHalos]

The top of the shade over residents beach should be a great viewing spot. :thumbup:

[Wheeler]

What about the beaches?

If your beach area is below mean high water line it does not belong to you.


If the LEO or safety patrol decides you are in harms way you might be asked to move, at least in California! :bat:

[gn7]

Please make sure you are not wearing any Hotboat garb when the Sheriff loads the both of you in the cruiser for breaking the law. The RDPpaparazzi will have a field day with that :D

Oh yeah they will.

[HB Vic]

Triple dog dare you to park this at the Cantina this weekend LOL 22894

[Wendi]

If your beach area is below mean high water line it does not belong to you.


If the LEO or safety patrol decides you are in harms way you might be asked to move, at least in California! :bat:

We will be on the Az side