Troublesome Boat Operation

[KAP]

Well it seems a lot of people are discussing bad driving habits of boaters.

One of the biggest issues I see and other racers whom I have spoken to will agree is proper trim of a boat is not adhered to by most.

This last weekend in Arona Italy two X-Cat boats kited over. No one was injured thank god. They were driven by professional drivers and throttle and trim operators. Certainly they did not intend for this to happen and we discussed what some of the causes are regarding a boat kiting over. Over trimming and following or crossing a faster boats turbulence or vacuum coming off the back of the boat. These are the main ones but I am sure there are others including following to close etc...

We concluded the main one is over trimming the boat to squeeze that last bit of speed out of the boat. A definite recipe for getting into trouble maybe not always but it will catch up to you.

When I run a Shootout for speed. I definitely over trim the boat trying to get every MPH out of the boat. However, when I run in cruise mode or ocean. I run the engines neutral with a slight tick up positive trim from neutral. This will have the boat running level and if you catch air you hopefully will be in control. The boat should fly level and not get out of control i.e...bow coming up while airbourne. I also remind myself to back out of the throttles...if things get too out of control.

When pleasure boating I am especially mindful of HUGE cruiser wakes. These monster wakes may surprise you and next thing you know your being launched. Recently at LOTO I witnessed a cruiser with a unique wake more like crushing rollers coming off of it [the wakes was so big it would swallow a VW]. Several people were hit and it wreaked havoc on unsuspecting boaters. I saw it and steered clear of that monster.

If you have any other good pointers chime in always good to hear some useful tips rather than experience them the hard way.


Note: We are talking about tunnel hulled boats, cats, etc...not mono hull.

[KAP]

Ok here is a crazy photo!

I was going to do a separate thread but thought I would just post it here.

This was a real photo taken at DSPR a couple years back. If you can zoom into the center of the photo.

I received this from a trusted source. I thought it was photo shop but it is not. I said no way and he assured me he witnessed it and a lady friend in the boat took the picture.

Nuts is all I have to say...mindless people.

[HB Vic]

Great insight Kap and very good thread. One thing that helps me is having a foot pedal for trim. My previous boat had the trim on the wheel, and even though that boat really did not respond well to trim, I always found myself fumbling around trying to hit the switch. Especially in turns. My new boat almost overreacts to trim, it really likes to carry the bow. Needless to say, the foot pedal gets used heavily. At times I catch myself saying "down boy, down" while stomping on the pedal. Lol.

[RogerThat99]

That DS pic is unbelievable. thanks for all the info KAP.

[Stainless]

That DS pic is unbelievable. thanks for all the info KAP.
Yea, WTF is that jet ski doing there? Even though he has a right to be there, thats just dumb!

[KAP]

The jet ski photo has to be one of the all time DARWIN award nominations.

I was speechless when I saw it :yikes::yikes::yikes:.

In my boat the trim buttons are always at my finger tips [mounted on throttles]. I would love to get some valuable commentary from racers on techniques to avoid. That would be a good column to read.

KAP

P.S. Getting ready for Bayfair...it is going to be a fun weekend:smile:. I think someone should do a role call on who is going thread:cyberguy:.

[GotHalos]

Thank you for the info.

As far as the jetski picture, I can't even fathom what on earth they were thinking. It seems to me the two passengers in the rear of the Skater are thinking the same thing.

[hpboats83]

Frankly, I think the problem is two fold, the boats are too fast and there's not enough training. I could literally today go and buy a 50' Mystic for 1.5MM (as a hypothetical for this conversation) and they will throw me the keys and I will be on the water tomorrow morning. Could you imagine me doing that with a Cesna with twin turbines? I could still go buy it today but I wouldn't be "on the water or in the air" for quite some time.

Even the best throttle man in the world runs into trouble due to situations out of his control when running at a extremely high rate of speed because he wasn't on a closed course. I'm not a fan of any more government regulation; however, I think that if you want to buy a boat (V or Cat) that runs over X speed, you need to prove some form of "ability to safely operate."


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=umRt_AF1Ikg

[hpboats83]

After thinking about this more, I wonder if you had a cat (let's pick on Mystic for the sake of this discussion) that had some sort of a front wing/canard (similar to the new Al Copeland boat "Phenomenon") that was computer controlled by some sort of a gyro-stabilization (don't think that's a real word) that could receive inputs hundreds of times per second/minute that could help maintain the attitude of a boat and help keep it flying level and when it sensed a blow over possible, make a severe correction to help prevent a blow over and prevent an accident before it happened, might turn into a great safety feature.

[HB Vic]

After thinking about this more, I wonder if you had a cat (let's pick on Mystic for the sake of this discussion) that had some sort of a front wing/canard (similar to the new Al Copeland boat "Phenomenon") that was computer controlled by some sort of a gyro-stabilization (don't think that's a real word) that could receive inputs hundreds of times per second/minute that could help maintain the attitude of a boat and help keep it flying level and when it sensed a blow over possible, make a severe correction to help prevent a blow over and prevent an accident before it happened, might turn into a great safety feature.

I think someone on OSO was talking about that. The only thing I would be concerned with would be that little gizmo causing a stuff. Not sure which would be worse, kite or stuff. Don't think I'd want to do either at 130+MPH.

[Stainless]

After thinking about this more, I wonder if you had a cat (let's pick on Mystic for the sake of this discussion) that had some sort of a front wing/canard (similar to the new Al Copeland boat "Phenomenon") that was computer controlled by some sort of a gyro-stabilization (don't think that's a real word) that could receive inputs hundreds of times per second/minute that could help maintain the attitude of a boat and help keep it flying level and when it sensed a blow over possible, make a severe correction to help prevent a blow over and prevent an accident before it happened, might turn into a great safety feature.

I like how your thinking, kind of like the flaps used in NASCAR that pop up when they go into a spin.

[hpboats83]

I think someone on OSO was talking about that. The only thing I would be concerned with would be that little gizmo causing a stuff. Not sure which would be worse, kite or stuff. Don't think I'd want to do either at 130+MPH.

I don't think that the wing would be enough to make the boat change the attitude that it was flying that drastically but hopefully enough to slow the blow over down so the drives could catch and bring the boat down a little safer. Even if it did stuff the occupants would stay inside the cockpit of the boat and hopefully just have a few missing teeth or a broken back like the guy who spun the Fountain around, atleast they didn't die.

[hpboats83]

I like how your thinking, kind of like the stabilizers used in NASCAR that pop up when they go into a spin.

If I'm not mistaken, the "stabilizers" in NASCAR only deploy if you are backwards or sideways on the track. I'm thinking bigger picture, more like ABS or Auto 4wd which is making 100's of inputs per second to the wheels, this would just be done to the wing.

[Stainless]

If I'm not mistaken, the "stabilizers" in NASCAR only deploy if you are backwards or sideways on the track. I'm thinking bigger picture, more like ABS or Auto 4wd which is making 100's of inputs per second to the wheels, this would just be done to the wing.
Yea, I get what your thinking, great idea IMO.

[HB Vic]

If it'll save lives, maybe it should be invented (if it hasn't already) and tested.

[hpboats83]

Yea, I get what your thinking, great idea IMO.


If it'll save lives, maybe it should be invented (if it hasn't already) and tested.

There you go Mr. Doug Wright West, do it and hook me up later. That could be your niche into making your boat revolutionary and different, just hook me up with a new boat once you make a couple million.

[270]

Ok here is a crazy photo!

I was going to do a separate thread but thought I would just post it here.

This was a real photo taken at DSPR a couple years back. If you can zoom into the center of the photo.

I received this from a trusted source. I thought it was photo shop but it is not. I said no way and he assured me he witnessed it and a lady friend in the boat took the picture.

Nuts is all I have to say...mindless people.

WOW! That could have ended up really bad. :(

[2FORCEFULL]

Yea, WTF is that jet ski doing there? Even though he has a right to be there, thats just dumb!

I would say #2....lol

[Cat & Mice]

That DS pic is crazy.

Here is the problem with some wing to prevent blowing over. If in fact it worked then guys would push it to the point that it can not work. Just like they push the limits of the trim. It would only allow the boat to go faster to get to the edge. If the driver does not know how to stay off the edge then he will fall off eventually regardless of where the edge is.

These boats already go fast enough. We don't need wings to make them more stable at high speeds. They can already be stable at high speeds. You just have to know where the edge is and not get close to it.

MP

[gn7]

That DS pic is crazy.

Here is the problem with some wing to prevent blowing over. If in fact it worked then guys would push it to the point that it can not work. Just like they push the limits of the trim. It would only allow the boat to go faster to get to the edge. If the driver does not know how to stay off the edge then he will fall off eventually regardless of where the edge is.

These boats already go fast enough. We don't need wings to make them more stable at high speeds. They can already be stable at high speeds. You just have to know where the edge is and not get close to it.

MP

When you walk a tight rope, you have to be aware that you can fall off. You can decide to walk the wire 3 feet off the ground, or 300 ft. One might sprain your ankle, the other can get you killed. How much rush to you live for, and willing to give up to do it is your decision to make. Anybody that gets into one of those things and enters a Poker Run, or an actual offshore race and thinks it can't happen to them, shouldn't be getting in it to start with, because they are too clueless about what they are doing.
They have been kiting air packers since the day they were invented, and they will continue to do so for the foreseeable future. Its the nature of the beast.

No wing is going to stop this. Only one thing comes to mind. Some means of relieving the tunnel pressure if the boat's attitude gets to a pre determined attack angle. Not unlike the flaps on the Cup cars that disrupts the airflow over the car.
It would require some type of inertia lever like the Cup cars have, that only allow it to activate when the attack angle of the boat exceeds a given point.
You cannot depend on the driver to do it, or even allow him to have control over it. There isn't enough time, or even the presence of mind to do it 99% of the time.

Unlimiteds have a canard wing to control the front lift, and they still kite REGULARLY. A canard wing is not the answer.

[hpboats83]

When you walk a tight rope, you have to be aware that you can fall off. You can decide to walk the wire 3 feet off the ground, or 300 ft. One might sprain your ankle, the other can get you killed. How much rush to you live for, and willing to give up to do it is your decision to make. Anybody that gets into one of those things and enters a Poker Run, or an actual offshore race and thinks it can't happen to them, shouldn't be getting in it to start with, because they are too clueless about what they are doing.
They have been kiting air packers since the day they were invented, and they will continue to do so for the foreseeable future. Its the nature of the beast.

No wing is going to stop this. Only one thing comes to mind. Some means of relieving the tunnel pressure if the boat's attitude gets to a pre determined attack angle. Not unlike the flaps on the Cup cars that disrupts the airflow over the car.
It would require some type of inertia lever like the Cup cars have, that only allow it to activate when the attack angle of the boat exceeds a given point.
You cannot depend on the driver to do it, or even allow him to have control over it. There isn't enough time, or even the presence of mind to do it 99% of the time.

Unlimiteds have a canard wing to control the front lift, and they still kite REGULARLY. A canard wing is not the answer.

I certainly don't think its THE answer but just a different way of thinking

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