75 Spectra V-Drive

[78Southwind]

I just bought a 75 Spectra 20' V-Drive a month ago from Greg Fuller's (RIP) father. I didn't know Greg on a personal level but I knew him as one of my river buds (someone I always made sure to say Hi to if I saw him at the river). I had only ridden in his boat a couple times once when I saw him at one of our AVI trips and another when he came to one of my Park Moabi trips that I use to throw a couple times a year. He had invited Lisa and I to join him at Parker a couple times but we never made it down with him to his stomping ground. One thing I will always remember about Greg is his smile, that guy always had a smile on his face.

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I didn't really know much about the boat the first time I went for a ride the boat it had an Olds but I knew that Greg bought Danny Donahue's (RIP) old engine and that he had re-rigged the spectra in 2007/2008. I also knew that Greg had done some work to the bottom.

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When I got the boat home I measured the following: The strut angle is 7.8* with a 6" drop. The distance between the transom and strut is 25". The cavitation plates are 9.5" from the transom and end 7.25" from gunnels. The distance between the engine and transom is 20". The centerline of the gearbox is 100" from the transom, 4" from the bulk head and about 15" from the deck/dash.

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I also did a little research via the boards and thru his close river friends Jeremie and Tom.

Jim Lange (High Tech Marine) re-rigged the boat and rebuilt the engine around 2008.

I sent Jim a PM and this is the information he gave me. The strut was replaced with a fabricated steel drop thru and strut braces, new rails and mounts, relocated V-drive replacing the original Champion V drive with a rebuilt Casale split case, new A22 prop shaft, new Menkens prop, installed new "adjustable" cav plates (originally had NO plates). I never drove it, but from what I've been told, it handles well. The transmission was built by a guy that used to work for Art Carr. I believe it has a Crower crank, Manley rods and JE pistons. All new Manley Severe Duty valves, new oil pump, rings and bearings.

Steve Brule (Westech Performance) dynoed the engine in 2002 and 2004

I don't think Greg ever dynoed the engine after Jim rebuilt it but the engine was originally owned by Danny Donahue (RIP) and he dynoed the engine at Westech Performance in 2004. I sent Steve Brule an e-mail and he confirmed that the engine made in the high 900 HP range with 6.5lbs of boost.

Gary Williams (Williams Carburetors) built the carbs in 2002

I called Gary and he said the carburetors flowed over 1200.

Bryan Lewandowski (Valley Propeller Service Ventura)

I sent Bryan an e-mail and they still have one of Greg's old props and they are in the process of researching his file.

I also found some of Greg's old posts...

...Mines a 75, heavy lay up ( bottom is 1 3/8" thick) 4 full stringers. blown 572. I re-rigged it, moved the prop 10" forward, reduced the angle by 3 degrees to alleviate the stern lift problem.

...Whoever builds Hi Tech Marines trannys is the bomb.

...Blown 572 I will trust Danny on the HP, Replaced the champion with a 12 degree casale moved forward right up to the bulkhead with 37, reduced propshaft angle, new custom steel strut, blastplate at the stock strut location prop forward about 10" My prop is not correct but its running about mid 90s and get there in a hurry.

...Gps'ed it today... 50 @ 3000, 65 @ 4k... 85 @ 5k. the prop I'm running doesn't carry the bow worth a shit and I didn't want Wheeler to soil my seat so that was it...The way I see it if I can ever get my Menkins prop duplicated I should hit at least 107 at 6k : )

...I rode in Lynch's boat at 113, felt faster than mine, but I wasn't driving... my pile has around 1000 hp, 37's in the box, 11.75 X 16.5 Menkins 3 blade. I can hit 5400 with a little more than half throttle, I've stood on it from there a few times but not about to look at the tach?

...I have a new Menkins 2 blade that was originally a 11 3/4" X 17. I ran it once and it vibrated my boat. I just got it back from Valley Prop service after having it cut down to 11 1/2 X 16 1/2". You are welcome to give it a try. I also have a Kindsvater 3 blade 11 1/2" X 16 1/2" with only last season on it, does not work well on my boat it gets squirrely above 80, I have Brian At VPS working on that one now to try and match a 3 blade Menkins that works perfectly but is about done hour wise. I had no luck getting in touch with Dallas @ Menkins last year that is why I bought the Kindsvater. I would bet you would be happy with the 3 blade Menkins, I am going to try to Get Dallas to duplicate the one I have.

[hbchgirl]

Makes me sad reading this... missed seeing Greg on the river this summer. He was such a nice guy and always made it a point to stop by our place in Parker to say hi if he knew we were there... and of course to give us a little show in his Spectra! Greg loved his boat! Congrats 78southwind! Take care of his baby!

[WESTERNAERO]

Congratulations on the purchase. Seemed like Greg had a lot of friends on the river, I never met him, wish I would have. I'm sure they will be happy to see this boat back out there and to meet it's new owner.

[Cole Trickle]

Cool boat....I'm glad it went to a forum member that knew the history:)

[McRib]

Greg was a good dude. Got to ride in that thing a couple of times in parker before the rebuild. Holy shit! is that a go fast boat. That hull has seen more air time then a pan am 747. Lol. He def drove that mother effer.

[78Southwind]

Makes me sad reading this... missed seeing Greg on the river this summer. He was such a nice guy and always made it a point to stop by our place in Parker to say hi if he knew we were there... and of course to give us a little show in his Spectra! Greg loved his boat! Congrats 78southwind! Take care of his baby!

Yep...Greg loved his boat... He use to kid with me saying he would take me for a ride and all it would cost me is $5 (it reminded me of the E-Tickets at Disneyland). It took me a while to decide to put this thread up. But in the end I think Greg would have enjoyed it. Greg was doing some repairs and up-grades to the boat when he passed so I am going to put her back together.

[78Southwind]

Greg was a good dude. Got to ride in that thing a couple of times in parker before the rebuild. Holy shit! is that a go fast boat. That hull has seen more air time then a pan am 747. Lol. He def drove that mother effer.

Greg was a driver for sure...I don't think the Spectra will see the air time with me driving. However, the boat is built like a tank and can handle it.

I remember seeing Wheelers pictures years ago of Greg getting air. It was so funny it looked like Greg was trying to steer with one hand and hold down his ice chest with the other hand. I think he was still smiling too. ;)

[78Southwind]

Congratulations on the purchase. Seemed like Greg had a lot of friends on the river, I never met him, wish I would have. I'm sure they will be happy to see this boat back out there and to meet it's new owner.

Thanks...I got a lot of support from his dad and friends before I made the purchase.

[78Southwind]

Cool boat....I'm glad it went to a forum member that knew the history:)

Thanks...

[78Southwind]

In the near future:

I am going to take it to Lew Larson to have the engine freshened up and then to West Coast Marine Interiors to have them build a back seat, they built the front two buckets. I will put more picture in this thread when that takes place.

For now I will put up some pictures of some of the work Greg did a couple years ago.

In winter of 2010 Greg replaced the floors and bulkhead.
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In 2011 Greg finished the Balsa Veneered floors, added bucket seats, Calgo steering, a down pedal and polished clear powder coated the aluminum fuel tanks.
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[WESTERNAERO]

Any chance you could post a pic of the strut from the bottom and the inside?

[hbchgirl]

Yep...Greg loved his boat... He use to kid with me saying he would take me for a ride and all it would cost me is $5 (it reminded me of the E-Tickets at Disneyland). It took me a while to decide to put this thread up. But in the end I think Greg would have enjoyed it. Greg was doing some repairs and up-grades to the boat when he passed so I am going to put her back together.

Looking forward to seeing the boat back on the water some day 😎enjoy!

[GotHalos]

Very cool boat and nice purchase :thumbup:

[Wendi]

Very cool 78SW thanks for sharing here! We will certainly enjoy seeing the transformation. Greg was a great guy and sorely missed in Parker.

[Just Electric]

nice to see it go to a good home many hr wrenching and tuning that thing at piru lake with greg:thumbup:
http://vimeo.com/61688968

[78Southwind]

Any chance you could post a pic of the strut from the bottom and the inside?

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[78Southwind]

nice to see it go to a good home many hr wrenching and tuning that thing at piru lake with greg:thumbup:
http://vimeo.com/61688968

Yeah...that was a great tribute that Brad put together of Greg. I am going to see if Brad has any raw video of the boat.

I found this one on Youtube.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L9JtW1gldh8&feature=share&list=FLTs6yrwFLQioBfo8KYja6nw


http://youtu.be/OEWodnd1r2s

[Stainless]

78, V-drives are kinda Greek to me, but this looks like a fun boat! The history alone makes it intriguing. ;)

[78Southwind]

78, V-drives are kinda Greek to me, but this looks like a fun boat! The history alone makes it intriguing. ;)

I had no clue about v-Drives until Jeremie and I bought a 72 Hallett back in 2007. Now I know just enough about them to get me in trouble.:) This link will give you the basic understanding about V-Drives (http://www.glen-l.com/wordpress/outfitting-your-inboard-boat).

[hbchgirl]

nice to see it go to a good home many hr wrenching and tuning that thing at piru lake with greg:thumbup:
http://vimeo.com/61688968

Cool video!

[HB Vic]

I remember seeing Greg (didn't know him, never met him) run his boat up and down the river. Proud boat owner for sure. Nothing but smiles when he went by. Sad deal. But happy to see his boat will be running familiar waters. That's pretty cool :thumbsUp:

[78Southwind]

The Spectra has a fill plate where the old strut was (acting like a small blast plate). I am trying to find out what a reasonable price would be to install and make a bigger blast plate for the Spectra.

I sent Jim Lange a PM and he said to do it right it would run about $500 but he really didn't get into details. I tried calling him but he must be busy. So has anyone had a shop router out the area, build a Blast Plate and install it for them? If so, what was the material used Aluminum or Stainless Steel and what was the cost?

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-aB1HXE1Z--o/Ui9x0O-ZbgI/AAAAAAAABuc/QHZNtKuIQKU/s640/BlaastPlate1.JPG

[78Southwind]

Pulled the engine yesterday.

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For Westenaero here's a better picture of the strut brace.

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[78Southwind]

Arrow Trailer is going thru the trailer for me.

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[Sanger_Spectra]

188451884618847I would do a little glass work on that old strut hole, and then run the blast plate over. Did mine a few years back but I had the boat upside down, not very difficult to do but it looks like snow when you are done. I used 1/8 stainless plate for mine, BIL is a machinest so i made patterns and he cut them then i did final fit.

[78Southwind]

Ok, got the boat back from Arrow Trailers. They installed a new complete rear axle and repacked the bearings in the front axle.

Next, I am going to take the boat to Scott Schatz at S&S Performance and Marine to have him make me an aluminum blast plate and do the install. He seems like a fair/good guy from talking to him on the phone and talking to a couple guys that recommended him. His shop is also local since he's in corona.

[Skee]

Greg at the Tom Papp memorial at Lake Elsinore in 2010.....I got alotta crap for posting this video from my cell phone....LOL! :wink2: http://youtu.be/SIPg1SXl5N0

[Skee]

A little cruise along and in Parker with Greg Fuller and your new boat.....This man loved that boat and the River like no other.... http://youtu.be/3xk3hb6QTp8

[Cigalert]

I got the pleasure of spending some time with Greg on a couple occasions....always had a smile as big as him every time we talked. He's got to be grinning again just see this thing getting done. Very cool.

[WMC]

Cool video:3:

[78Southwind]

I started polishing some of the rails and brackets.

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[WESTERNAERO]

Hey, slow down. At the rate I'm getting shit done you're gonna win.

[78Southwind]

Hey, slow down. At the rate I'm getting shit done you're gonna win.

Yes, I may win but your build is going to be bad ass...

[WESTERNAERO]

What did you decide to do with the broken boss on the block?

[78Southwind]

What did you decide to do with the broken boss on the block?

Just going to run it...this was the fix.

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[WESTERNAERO]

yeah, I wouldn't worry about it. When you first talked about it I didn't realize your motor plates were connected to the water bolts also.
Oh, and all that polishing you're doing, most miserable job on the planet. I hate doing that shit. Looking good though.

[Sharp shooter]

The first time I met Greg he was sitting in the back of his truck with a smug little smile. I was walking by and he says; "Hey, you gonna run that trailer queen?" I responded with my usual; "of course not". lol
About 20 minutes later he was out on the water doing what he loved most. I didn't know him well, but I knew several of his friends and everybody seemed to love him. :)

[78Southwind]

yeah, I wouldn't worry about it. When you first talked about it I didn't realize your motor plates were connected to the water bolts also.
Oh, and all that polishing you're doing, most miserable job on the planet. I hate doing that shit. Looking good though.

Yep, I am getting my butt kicked right now. I think this will be the last time I do it myself. I paid to have my Southwind parts polished and I found out the hard way that it's worth every penny to have it professionally done. I cleaned the parts with steel wool, sanded with 220, 500 & 1,000 grit sandpaper, then I used a grinder and drill polisher with medium and fine polish. I am trying to get mirror polish out of it.

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[78Southwind]

I dropped the boat of with Scott Schatz at S&S Performance and Marine. Here's a couple pictures of his shop and some of his projects. :cool

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[Wendi]

I dropped the boat of with Scott Schatz at S&S Performance and Marine. Here's a couple pictures of his shop and some of his projects.

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He looks pretty busy and that is a good thing! What are you having done?

[Paul65K]

I dropped the boat of with Scott Schatz at S&S Performance and Marine. Here's a couple pictures of his shop and some of his projects.

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[78Southwind]

He looks pretty busy and that is a good thing! What are you having done?

I think he is working on five boats right now. The rest are there for storage. There's three or four guys there that sublease from the guy that does the boat storage. One guy does welding, Scott said he does all of his custom header work. Scott is pretty much a one man band and does all the other work himself. He has an engine build room too. I'll see if I can get some pictures of the engines he's working on next time I head out there.

I am getting an Aluminum blast plate built and installed.

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[78Southwind]

What happened to the pictures??

I am not sure. I posted them again and they're back up.

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[78Southwind]

I went by Scott's shop today and he started routering out the bottom for the Blast Plate.

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Scott said that the strut hole where the prop shaft goes thru is somewhat oblong but he is going to fix it so I shouldn't have any problems. It's kind of interesting because I was told that Greg would go thru strut barrings every year. This was probably why he was having this problem. You can see it in this picture.

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Here's a picture of the filler plate where the old strut was that was used to act like a small blast plate. Maybe I can get some money for it if I recycle it. ;)

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[78Southwind]

Here's a couple more pictures of Scott's shop and some engines he's working on.

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[78Southwind]

Kind of funny thing today...When I was talking to Scott he told me one of his customer's came in and said that the reason he bought his 1981 Spectra is because of this Spectra. To top it off this is one of the guys from another forum that recommended me to use Scott. He didn't know that I had bought Greg's old Spectra so he was kind of surprised when he saw it at the shop. Here's his 1981 Spectra.

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[WESTERNAERO]

So what's going on with the prop, shaft, or alignment to wear that bore oval like that? What material is that strut? Has Scott given you any clue as to why that's happening?

[78Southwind]

So what's going on with the prop, shaft, or alignment to wear that bore oval like that? What material is that strut? Has Scott given you any clue as to why that's happening?

He said he thought it might have been from too much heat when the steel strut was welded together. I will talk to him more about when he get's done with the blast plate.

[WESTERNAERO]

He said he thought it might have been from too much heat when the strut was welded together. I will talk to him more about when he get's done with the blast plate.

So the bore warped/oval'd when it was welded, not from some odd side load or vibration or something like that. He thinks it was like that from day-one, right? Just being curious, is all.

[78Southwind]

So the bore warped/oval'd when it was welded, not from some odd side load or vibration or something like that. He thinks it was like that from day-one, right? Just being curious, is all.

Yes, from day one.

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[WESTERNAERO]

Yes, from day one.

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Well that's shitty!

[WMC]

Cool thread keep the update coming



sent from WMC's phone

[78Southwind]

Got the boat back today. The Blast Plate is finished and Scott blended the bottom of the boat. I will finish the bottom up with some speed coat.
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[WMC]

:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:



sent from WMC's phone

[Wheeler]

I remember seeing Greg run his boat up and down the river. Proud boat owner for sure. Nothing but smiles when he went by.

Always a good time when Greg showed up in Parker. :thumbsUp:

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[78Southwind]

Great pictures Wheeler...:thumbsUp:

[WESTERNAERO]

Got the boat back today.
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Looks Great!!!

[78Southwind]

I stopped by Lew Larson's on Friday. He let me know that everything looked good except the timing chain, a couple rod bushings, a rod bearing and the harmonic balancer. The rod bearings were original from when Danny had the blower engine built back in 2000. He also had a concern about the crank since it only had a single keyway and that could be the reason for the bad balancer. It's kind of strange because the balancer is a blower balancer that is machined for dual keyways. I am pretty sure we are going to get the crank machined for another keyway. I have a call into The Blower Shop to have one of their techs call me.

Edit
Eric from The Blower Shop got back with me and said that they always recommend that the customer go with dual keyways. He did say though with lower boost (6 PSI or less) you may be able to get away with it.

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[78Southwind]

In 2012 when Greg owned the boat the dampener plate broke a spring which ended up cracking the transmission case. Greg had the transmission case welded up and painted. He decided to go with a flexplate with a TCI Front Pump Drive Kits (spline drive). However, the boat has never been ran with this new set-up. I have the old Centerforce steel flywheel and the old Spline Drive Unit for the transmission. I am considering going with the old set-up (flywheel) and just buying a Heavy-Duty Dampener Plate.

Does anyone have any suggestion why one set-up is better than the other? From research on other forums I have seen some that like the TCI Front Pump Drive Kits and some that don't. Here's a couple pictures of the different set-ups.

Flexplate with a TCI Front Pump Drive Kits

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Centerforce steel flywheel and the old Spline Drive Unit

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[Wheeler]

Looking good! Hope to see it on the water soon. :thumbsUp:

[WESTERNAERO]

In 2012 when Greg owned the boat the dampener plate broke a spring which ended up cracking the transmission case. Greg had the transmission case welded up and painted. He decided to go with a flexplate with a TCI Front Pump Drive Kits (spline drive). However, the boat has never been ran with this new set-up. I have the old Centerforce steel flywheel and the old Spline Drive Unit for the transmission. I am considering going with the old set-up (flywheel) and just buying a Heavy-Duty Dampener Plate.

Does anyone have any suggestion why one set-up is better than the other? From research on other forums I have seen some that like the TCI Front Pump Drive Kits and some that don't. Here's a couple pictures of the different set-ups.

Flexplate with a TCI Front Pump Drive Kits



Centerforce steel flywheel and the old Spline Drive Unit


You should get a hold of Bob/GN7 about this. There was a discussion about this somewhere before also, maybe on PB. Try a search over there. I'm assuming you're trying to find out so you can get the engine re-balanced.

[78Southwind]

Yes, that was the thread I was referring to. GN7, Rexone and a couple others had some good info. I just thought some others like yourself may have some thoughts...

[78Southwind]

I sent an e-mail over to the Pro Race Tech in Australia and also talked to their Senior Consultant here in the US about the Harmonic Balancer and they are offering to send me a new one for $150 out the door. That should save me at least $200 in the cost of a new supercharger rated balancer.

From Ren @ Pro Race

Thanks for your email; based on the information you provided, this #74267 balancer was built 13 years ago, in 2000.

The rubber that appeared at the back of the balancer would be a result of ‘tear and wear’ after a long term operation under a harsh condition (such as a high-horsepower marine application like yours, as Ed Lyons our senior consultant had mentioned to you). However we are happy to offer you a replacement Pro/Race #74267 at a heavily discounted purchase price of $150 (more than 50% off).

[GotHalos]

Very cool of them to offer that heavy of a discount :thumbup:

[78Southwind]

Last week a couple parts showed up at my house. My flexplate and balancer.

Meziere Flexplate Steel Flexplate that is one piece billet.

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Pro Race Steel Blower Balancer machined for two keyways

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[WMC]

You got some good stuff. Christmas early?



sent from WMC's phone

[78Southwind]

Here's a couple pictures of the block it's a Merlin II CNC Block with a 4.5" bore and 4.5" stroke to make it a 572. There has also been some work done to the block. The deck height is 10.188, the block has been O-ringed and bronze lifter bore sleeves have been installed.

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[78Southwind]

You got some good stuff. Christmas early?


sent from WMC's phone

You could say that...Have you ever heard of The Twelve Days of Christmas?:speechless-smiley-0

[78Southwind]

I also got the Crower Crank back from being polished. However, It still needs to be machined for the additional keyway. The Manley Rods are getting resized and new bushings. The JE Blower Pistons look good but Jim Lange had three left over from Gregs rebuild so he is sending those out to me this week. Hopefully, everything will go to the balancer by the end of this week.

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[78Southwind]

I got the pistons today so everything went to get balanced.

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[78Southwind]

I spoke with Eric at TBS to find out some information about the blower and he asked me to measure the case and it was 17" long. He said that 8-71 Blower Cases are 16" long while 10-71 Blower Cases are 17" long. So the Blower is a 10-71 not an 8-71 that we originally thought it was. He also looked up the serial number and said it was built in March of 2001 and was in for service in Feb. of 2010.

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[Deeboat]

badass

[Wheeler]

[QUOTE=78Southwind;70395]I spoke with Eric at TBS to find out some information about the blower and he asked me to measure the case and it was 17" long. He said that 8-71 Blower Cases are 16" long while 10-71 Blower Cases are 17" long. So the Blower is a 10-71 not an 8-71 that we originally thought it was.

QUOTE]

Very Cool!

Will you be running the flower pots? :hmmm:

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[rvrmom]

Cool thread to follow:thumbsUp: Few years ago I met Greg and my son Ryan was eyeing his boat. I went up and introduced myself. Greg was such a sweetie and said do you want to go for a ride? I got the can I go Mom look LOL. Greg said you want to come too? I said sure.. Ry go grab your vest. When we got in the boat Ry asked me you think we are gonna go fast? LOL. I'm pretty sure we are sweetie. Did a quick hot lap up to Echo and back.

[WMC]

[QUOTE=78Southwind;70395]I spoke with Eric at TBS to find out some information about the blower and he asked me to measure the case and it was 17" long. He said that 8-71 Blower Cases are 16" long while 10-71 Blower Cases are 17" long. So the Blower is a 10-71 not an 8-71 that we originally thought it was.

QUOTE]

Very Cool!

Will you be running the flower pots? :hmmm:

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Lol

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[Wheeler]

Cool thread to follow:thumbsUp: Few years ago I met Greg and my son Ryan was eyeing his boat. I went up and introduced myself. Greg was such a sweetie and said do you want to go for a ride? I got the can I go Mom look LOL. Greg said you want to come too? I said sure.. Ry go grab your vest. When we got in the boat Ry asked me you think we are gonna go fast? LOL. I'm pretty sure we are sweetie. Did a quick hot lap up to Echo and back.



What's up Jamie! :wink2:

Too bad you didn't have your camera out when Mini Kat towed us past your place during the tube float.

[Wheeler]

[QUOTE=WMC; Lol
][QUOTE]


What you laughing at Dude!

Greg loved them stacks! :smile:


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[rvrmom]

What's up Jamie! :wink2:

Too bad you didn't have your camera out when Mini Kat towed us past your place during the tube float.

Hi Wheeler :) I think I got a pic of that. Or I saw a pic.... That was f'n hilarious!!! I gotta dig. See you this Spring???

[Wheeler]

Hi Wheeler I think I got a pic of that. Or I saw a pic.... That was f'n hilarious!!! I gotta dig. See you this Spring???

That was some "Funny Shit Right There"

I will be here waiting for the sun! Hope to see you then. :)

[78Southwind]

Very Cool!

Will you be running the flower pots? :hmmm:

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To be honest I am not a huge fan of them. (But Greg looks like a proud father in your picture next to them.) I am sure they will be on there for at least a little while...:popcorn:

[WESTERNAERO]

Are you still going to run the serpentine blower pulleys or are you going to some 8mm's?

[Wheeler]

To be honest I am not a huge fan of them but I am sure they will be on there for at least a little while...:popcorn:


I think Greg left 'em on just to piss Ginger off. :wink_002:

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[78Southwind]

I think Greg left 'em on just to piss Ginger off. :wink_002:

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lol...I hear ya...

[78Southwind]

Are you still going to run the serpentine blower pulleys or are you going to some 8mm's?

I haven't really thought about it. I will probably keep the serpentine blower pulleys if I go with full interior.

[78Southwind]

Anyone have a clue who's cam Greg was running? Jeremie said he thought it was a Chris Straub grind but I e-mailed Chris and he said that it wasn't his.

It's 00K2A 139456. I was thinking it might be a Crane Cam.

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[WESTERNAERO]

Anyone have a clue who's cam Greg was running? Jeremie said he thought it was a Chris Straub grind but I e-mailed Chris and he said that it wasn't his.

It's 00K2A 139456. I was thinking it might be a Crane Cam.

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Look at the end of the cam, if it's crane it should say crane. The 13 indicates that it's for BBC, 945 will be the type of cam/grind it is. The copper paint or die between the lobes also looks like a crane. Call crane they'll tell you exactly what it is. With a number like that it's not a custom grind it's a catalog piece.

[78Southwind]

We looked at it pretty good. I don't think it's the original cam just a new grid of the original cam.

edit: You can identify a genuine Crane cam core by the distinctive copper plating between the lobes.

[WESTERNAERO]

We looked at it pretty good. I don't think it's the original cam just a new grid of the original cam.

Is it a solid or hydraulic roller?
I run a hydraulic roller crane PN 139651. The number on yours is close.

[78Southwind]

So here's some food for thought.

I have decided to run a direct drive set-up but I am not sure which way I want to go. I can run what I have which is the TCI Front Pump Drive which is a (2) piece or I can run a (1) piece A 1 type deal.

I really don't have any negatives thoughts about running a (1) piece A 1 type Front Pump Drive since I will be running a Billet Steel Flexplate. The only down side I can see is the cost to buy one.

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What I don't like about the 2 piece TCI Front Pump Drive is that since the motor plate is 3/8" thick I would have to run an adjustable slip collar. There needs to be 1/8 to 3/16" travel from where the pump drive is bottomed out in the transmission to where the slip collar is bottomed out in the flange. I guess I just don't like the fact that the slip collar is spinning inside the trans case and I am just wondering how likely it would be for the collar to loosen up and create some damage?

TCI 162000 - TCI Circlematic Front Pump Drive Kits
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TCI 745050 - TCI Circlematic Front Pump Drive Kits
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I measured the flange internally and the spline gear in the flange doesn't start until about 5/16 into the flange (I believe the spiral lock rides in this area). But since I am using the 2 piece lock collar that rides on the outside of the flange then I think I would just subtract 5/16" from the motor plate size 3/8" which equals 1/16". So if I start at (b) which is the spiral lock slot for no motor plate and measure 1/16" towards the engine that would be the starting place for the lock collar. Then set 1/8" to 3/16" for travel.

[78Southwind]

Is it a solid or hydraulic roller?
I run a hydraulic roller crane PN 139651. The number on yours is close.

It's a solid roller.

[WESTERNAERO]

I wouldn't be worried about the collar. The diameter of the collar isn't large enough to have any rotating mass that would cause vibrations or anything to loosen the bolts if torqued properly and locktite is used. There's no end thrust applied to move the collar forward so that's not an issue either. If your really worried about it coming apart, assemble it, tighten the collar in place and then remove the drive and tack the two pieces of the collar together. I'm not a fan of doing something like that but it would give you the peace of mind you looking for.

[WESTERNAERO]

Do you really need the collar? You're going to shorten the splined end of the shaft, why shorten per the instructions? The PTO coupler is splined thru, so why not machine the that end so it has 1/8 - 3/16 off the end of the crank? If you chunk it up in a lathe so the face is square to the splines then there is no need for the collar. The collar is there so the shaft doesn't move too far forward and comes out of the trans. If you set the end-play to the crank, the collar is useless.

[78Southwind]

Look at the end of the cam, if it's crane it should say crane. The 13 indicates that it's for BBC, 945 will be the type of cam/grind it is. The copper paint or die between the lobes also looks like a crane. Call crane they'll tell you exactly what it is. With a number like that it's not a custom grind it's a catalog piece.

I spoke with a Crane Cams Tech and they said they made it but didn't finish the Cam. So it is a custom grind. Basically they sold the cam to another company and that company finished it so Crane doesn't have the specs to it. The Crane Tech said the number 139456 means BBC solid roller.

[78Southwind]

Maybe that's why it has a "6" at the end of the P/N. I wonder who finished it?

I thought it was Chris Straub's cam but he said no.

[78Southwind]

Do you really need the collar? You're going to shorten the splined end of the shaft, why shorten per the instructions? The PTO coupler is splined thru, so why not machine the that end so it has 1/8 - 3/16 off the end of the crank? If you chunk it up in a lathe so the face is square to the splines then there is no need for the collar. The collar is there so the shaft doesn't move too far forward and comes out of the trans. If you set the end-play to the crank, the collar is useless.


I wouldn't be worried about the collar. The diameter of the collar isn't large enough to have any rotating mass that would cause vibrations or anything to loosen the bolts if torqued properly and locktite is used. There's no end thrust applied to move the collar forward so that's not an issue either. If your really worried about it coming apart, assemble it, tighten the collar in place and then remove the drive and tack the two pieces of the collar together. I'm not a fan of doing something like that but it would give you the peace of mind you looking for.

Thanks...I will think this through.

[WESTERNAERO]

Thanks...I will think this through.

I think the TCI's idea with the collar is if some guy is doing this in his garage and the only thing he has is a chop saw to cut the shaft to length. The cut won't be square, but by putting that split collar on there it will provide a perpendicular shoulder for the end play. The PTO becomes part of the crank when it's bolted on. So what's the difference if the end play is set from the PTO face or inside the PTO on the crank. Hope I'm making sense here.

[78Southwind]

I think the TCI's idea with the collar is if some guy is doing this in his garage and the only thing he has is a chop saw to cut the shaft to length. The cut won't be square, but by putting that split collar on there it will provide a perpendicular shoulder for the end play. The PTO becomes part of the crank when it's bolted on. So what's the difference if the end play is set from the PTO face or inside the PTO on the crank. Hope I'm making sense here.

I get what you're saying...

[WESTERNAERO]

I get what you're saying...

GN7 will probably chime in and tell me I'm wrong though. :happy:

[WESTERNAERO]

You should move this to the V-drive section. You'll have GN7, 2MM, Mitch and I'm sure plenty of others to get some sound advice from.

[HB Vic]

ask and you shall receive :D

[WESTERNAERO]

ask and you shall receive :D

I wasn't asking, I was suggesting. This isn't my deal.

[78Southwind]

I wasn't asking, I was suggesting. This isn't my deal.

I PMed him. Good Idea...

[78Southwind]

Great news. Greg's Dad (Gary) called me today and he found some of Greg's old paperwork for the Spectra. Hopefully, this will put some of the missing links together for me.

[78Southwind]

I think I got a good idea on the Compression Ratio and Effective Compression Ratio. Thanks goes out to WESTERNAERO for proof reading and helping me grunch some of the numbers. :biggrin:


With .043 Gasket

ECR = ((Boost / 14.7) + 1) * compression ratio

((6.5 / 14.7) + 1) * 8.26 = 11.91

[78Southwind]

I found some of Danny's old posts on www.riverracer.net. Shaun the owner of the site had saved a lot of the old Hotboat.com posts and threads prior to the magazines meltdown. The following posts lead me to Greg Shoemaker. I am working with Greg to get the Cam Card and the Dyno Sheet. It's a long shot but Greg did put a call into Dan Douglas and he said he would look for them.

...Well, looks like my boat sold less power so I have a motor that needs a new home. Looking to get rid of it. Motor has 1 hour of dyno time since it was torn completely down, checked out, and rebuilt. Motor maybe has 30-40 hours on it TOTAL. It has all of the best parts in it.

...World Industries block
...Dart Pro 1 polished CNC Heads
...The Blower Shop 10-71 Blower
...MSD 6M Ignition
...Super Chiller
...Two Gary Williams Dominators
...Billet Crank
...ARP fasteners
...Etc.

...Motor put out 989h.p. on 6.5lbs of boost on pump gas. The motor is way over built for where it was running. A duplicate motor on Race Gas put out well over 1200h.p. and there was still room to go. There are no issues with this motor and it starts, idles, runs, perfectly. I can produce dyno sheets and will pay for an independent mechanic to go through the motor and sign off on it. Once that is done, that is where the warranty stops. I am 100% confident in this motor or I would not be selling it. As with anything high performance, there is NO WARRANTY what so ever once your mechanic gives it the green light.

...I can also help whoever buys this motor install it in their boat. You get the motor complete marine (less headers & motor mounts). Everything else is there and is ready to drop it in the boat. This would be a great re-power or something for a new boat awaiting production.

...Just FYI, I am looking to get somewhere around $18-20K for this motor. Call up Pfaff, GT, or Teague. For something similar, you are looking between $40-50K

...Initial is about 8 or 8.25:1. When I say pump gas, I mean 91 octane. That is what we ran it on the dyno at and no problems. Knock sensor didn't detect anything. Just to be on the safe side, I always splashed between 5-10 gallons of av gas into the tank prior to running it. Cheap insurance on the motor. They say that fuel looses between 1-2 octane points per month. Last thing you need is to have the fuel sit in the tanks (either in the boat or gas station) and pump bad gas through a high performance motor. It would live on 89, but I DO NOT suggest running it on 89 (much less running it hard)!

...Nope. You didn't miss it, I forgot to add it. It is a 572cid and it was built by Dan Douglas from GS Marine. He owed me a favor and did this motor for me. We worked with a bunch of different builders to get the ideal combination. Tom Papp was in on it, Dougans Machining, PFM, Westech, etc. I ordered the parts and had them delivered to me. We then got together and I watched as it was assembled. Dan Douglas did all of the assembly and then it was dialed in by Steve Brule over at Westech.

...By the end of the day, I was very happy where the motor ended up. It puts out 946@5600 and the lowest we pulled was 4500rpm and at 4500rpm the motor was making 954ft/lbs of torque. (And I was wondering why I keep going through drives). Steve Brule from Westech said that I could get an additional 100-200 H.P. if I wanted to run race gas, but I opted to stop there. I am only running 6.5lbs of boost and the motor is fat and happy.

[78Southwind]

Greg Shoemaker called me yesterday saying Dan Douglas found the Cam Card and the Dyno Sheet. Dan's on vacation right now but he should be back this week so hopefully I have that information by next week.

Also, Greg's Dad pulled through for me and found some of Greg's old paperwork. This is some of the work Hi Tech Marine did on the Spectra.

30006

30007

[WESTERNAERO]

Update?????

[78Southwind]

No real updates at this point. Greg Shoemaker told me Dan is still on vacation so no cam card or dyno sheet. Lew Larson told me that the machine shop is waiting on rod bushings.

[78Southwind]

Dan Douglas faxed me over the first Dyno Sheet from 2002 with 5 PSI. He didn't find the one they did with 6.5 PSI.

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[78Southwind]

Lew got the rotating assembly back from the machine shop. The engine is now an internally balanced engine instead of internally balanced on the front an externally balanced on the back of the engine.

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[78Southwind]

We took the heads to JMS Racing to get pressure checked and cleaned up.

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We used SCE Titan Copper Head Gaskets

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The bitch is home.
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Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2

[WESTERNAERO]

:thumb:

[Sharp shooter]

Looks mean!!

[78Southwind]

Most of the engine components are installed. The transmission is in and Scott is working on the wiring. Hopefully, I will get her back home this week and finish up a couple small things like headers and plumbing. Then back to Lew's to light her up.

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[WESTERNAERO]

Awesome! :thumb:

[WESTERNAERO]

Update?

[78Southwind]

She's Alive!...:yikes:

Hopefully, water test next week.


http://youtu.be/1UrtN7YyuLQ


http://youtu.be/MnobbHGtLR8

[78Southwind]

We water tested the Spectra at Lake Elsinore.

38802


http://youtu.be/aCaYcBdLPaw

However, we have a problem (you can hear it in the video) as pressure builds the TCI Pump Drive is being pushed and disengaged from the trans pump. In the following picture you can see the Pump Drive was pushed over a 1/4 towards the engine.

38803

I called TCI Auto and one tech told me that the TCI Pump Drive wouldn't work with and 3/8 mid plate and another told me it would work (they really couldn't give me a explanation of why or why not). So I starter thinking what would cause the adjustable slip collar to not hold the drive in place and I am wondering if it's because of the tapered spline. The 3/8 mid plate is causing the slip collar to be placed on the downward slope side of the spline. Therefore, only a portion of the slip collar is actually locking down on the pump drive. Give the drive 250 lbs of pressure and it pushes the slip collar down the slope. So to make it work I would think we would have to make a spacer for the slip collar so it would place it off the spline at a level part of the Pump Drive. Also, I started thinking about what else could go wrong using the TCI Pump Drive and it appears that there would only be about .625" of spline in the flange when using a 3/8" mid plate. So to over come that we would need to used a 3/8 plate spacer behind the flange that is bolted to the flexplate. This would allow us to use the no motor plate slot (b) on the TCI Pump Drive with the spiral lock. Then add adjustable slip collar with a spacer for added safety. This would put the spline in the geared part of the flange about an inch. To be honest though I hate doing all these workarounds.

I was reading on the boating boards and a lot of the guys have had good luck with the Heavy Duty Hughes Performance Direct Drive Assembly. I talked with a tech today at Hughes Performance and he said that the build time is about 2 days since they custom build each one. They build them to the mid plate size (3/8) and it's one piece so no workarounds. It's $269 and I am pretty much ready to order one of these deals and be done with it. It's the three prong type set-up on the left.

38804

[WESTERNAERO]

So it was the drive and not the pump. I would never have thought that the collar would slip like that. Are you sure you tightened it?

[78Southwind]

So it was the drive and not the pump. I would never have thought that the collar would slip like that. Are you sure you tightened it?

Well he said he did and when I put my hand up inside the housing it was tight. I even tried to pull it forward to see if I could move it back in place by hand. Those pumps make about 250 lbs of pressure.

[WESTERNAERO]

Well he said he did and when I put my hand up inside the housing it was tight. I even tried to pull it forward to see if I could move it back in place by hand. Those pumps make about 250 lbs of pressure.

But that's 250 lbs of line pressure(fluid psi) not thrust. If the pump drove itself forward 1/4" the trans would be junk. That looks like an aluminum collar. It heated up, swelled, lost clamp pressure and the vibration from the engine allowed it to work loose.
Get on Mcmaster Carr, order a steel collar, reset your drive adapter spacing (about .050" i'm assuming), clamp the the steel collar on, remove the assembly, weld the collar and re-install. It should be good forever.

[78Southwind]

If the pump drove itself forward 1/4" the trans would be junk. That looks like an aluminum collar. It heated up, swelled, lost clamp pressure and the vibration from the engine allowed it to work loose. The pump drive went backwards towards the engine not forwards towards the trans. I am pretty much over this and I am going with the Hughes Performance Direct Drive. I hate doing this to my wallet but I hate workarounds.

[WESTERNAERO]

The pump drive went backwards towards the engine not forwards towards the trans. I am pretty much over this and I am going with the Hughes Performance Direct Drive. I hate doing this to my wallet but I hate workarounds. I am just hoping I didn't screw the trans up.

I saw that it went towards the engine, I didn't think it went into the pump. A steel collar welded on can be done cheap and right away. Just trying to save you some money is all.

[78Southwind]

I saw that it went towards the engine, I didn't think it went into the pump. A steel collar welded on can be done cheap and right away. Just trying to save you some money is all.

I hear ya Kevin it makes sense what you're saying and I appreciate the help. But I am looking into other problems that might come up as well. Some have said they have lost splines probably since they didn't use a spacer behind the flange. Other's (besides GN7) have said it could be an alignment problem with the flexplate. Scott is helping me and his time is what I am starting to get worried about (I don't want to take advantage of him and his time).

[WESTERNAERO]

I you lived closer I'd tell you to just bring here and I'm sure we could get it fixed up so you could take it to DS tomorrow.

[78Southwind]

We got the Hughes Performance Direct Drive installed. It seems like a nice piece.

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[78Southwind]

http://youtu.be/L1zM7QNT3Qc

[WESTERNAERO]

Jerry, I hate to tell you this because you've got it all together. But, your bolts holding the drive to the flex plate should have a few threads showing. They're not fully engaged into the nylok area of the nut.
It's good to have 3 threads showing on everything that gets thru bolted with a nut and always use washers on the nut end.

[WESTERNAERO]

So what kind of mph were you getting? Looks like it was running good.

[78Southwind]

So what kind of mph were you getting? Looks like it was running good.

Didn't GPS it. It was just a shake down run to get the bugs out. I think there is a slip in the transmission so I am going to test it again.

[WESTERNAERO]

Jerry, I hate to tell you this because you've got it all together. But, your bolts holding the drive to the flex plate should have a few threads showing. They're not fully engaged into the nylok area of the nut.
It's good to have 3 threads showing on everything that gets thru bolted with a nut and always use washers on the nut end.

Jerry, did you see this? Not trying to harp on you but you really need longer bolts in there. I'd hate to hear that it came apart and tore some shit up after all the time and money you have in that boat getting it back together.

[msmeads]

Please put a cover over that drive shaft.

[Sharp shooter]

Sounds nice and smooth! I really like this boat.:thumbup:

[78Southwind]

Jerry, did you see this? Not trying to harp on you but you really need longer bolts in there. I'd hate to hear that it came apart and tore some shit up after all the time and money you have in that boat getting it back together.

I saw it Kevin thanks for looking out. I will talk to Scott about it. The transmission may have to come back out because it felt like there was a slip in 3rd gear. We have another bug I have to get out of it first then I will go back and address the transmission and direct drive.

[78Southwind]

Trans needs to be fixed. Third gear is done.

[78Southwind]

Trans is pulled hope to get it back in a couple weeks.

41535

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2

[78Southwind]

I had the trans rebuilt and changed the valve body to a TCI Reverse Order Shift Pattern: Park–Reverse–Neutral–First–Second–Third.

All I can say is the boat is absolutely insane. I got it up to 4,800 - 5,000 RPM's in Havasu chop and we had to be doing 80 - 85 MPH. It gets there right now too. Need to track down some more gremlins but hopefully she will be gremlin free in a month or so. BTW Kevin, Scott used longer bolts on the direct drive so no worries.

42937

[WESTERNAERO]

I had the trans rebuilt and changed the valve body to a TCI Reverse Order Shift Pattern: Park–Reverse–Neutral–First–Second–Third.

All I can say is the boat is absolutely insane. I got it up to 4,800 - 5,000 RPM's in Havasu chop and we had to be doing 80 - 85 MPH. It gets there right now too. Need to track down some more gremlins but hopefully she will be gremlin free in a month or so. BTW Kevin, Scott used longer bolts on the direct drive so no worries.

42937

Good deal Jerry! Glad you finally got that thing going.

[74 Howard 21rc]

Jerry glad to see Greg's boat in good hands and getting the treatment that Greg always wanted to do to it. Greg was always to busy running it instead of doing better repairs lol. YES! You better keep those flower pots on that boat, Greg loved those and said said there would be bad juju for those that remove them! Like jermie lol

[78Southwind]

Jerry glad to see Greg's boat in good hands and getting the treatment that Greg always wanted to do to it. Greg was always to busy running it instead of doing better repairs lol. YES! You better keep those flower pots on that boat, Greg loved those and said said there would be bad juju for those that remove them! Like jermie lol

Now that I am broke the flower pots will definitely be staying ☺ so no bad juju.

Looks like I have to replumb the dumps. If you have any pictures of where your dumping your water from post them up.

[74 Howard 21rc]

I plumbed everything to dump out by the drivers seat. Flatty style but it makes sence to do it that way. All them dump out that side that way i can check the temp with my hand and also see that there is water coming out.

[2manymustangs]

Lets see some pics yall... :)

Hey Westernaero, lets see some updates on your project... PLEASE??? ;)

["Uncivilized"]

Nice boat, Make me want to uncover my Raysoncraft.

[RogerThat99]

I definitely loved watching Greg run that boat. I am glad to hear you aren't removing the flower pots... They make the boat identifiable. Can't wait to see it run when you get the gremlins worked out. Maybe you will be in Needles and I can get some pictures.