Accident at Lake Cumberland PR

[Patyacht]

40' Skater - green

[Patyacht]

A Picture.

[WMC]

That's not good. I hope everyone is alright. Barrel roll?

[Patyacht]

Some say roll some say stuff. Rumors flying now. Let the dust settle 1st.

[Patyacht]

Got this from another site:
Some say rolled some say stuffed. Got this from another site:

Serious Crash During Poker Run on Lake Cumberland; Initial Reports of Two Victims Being Airlifted

Posted by Laker Country in Lake Cumberland's Best Country on September 7, 2013 | no responses
WJRS NEWS has confirmed a single boat crash occured near Ramsey Creek around 10:35 a.m. during one of the first flights of Poker Run on Lake Cumberland. Initial reports from emergency personnel of two persons being airlifted by emergency helicopter services. WJRS NEWS will continue to follow this developing story and we will have more details during our 4:05 p.m. edition of WJRS NEWS on-the-air at 104.9 fm and on-line at lakercountry.com?.

Prayers out to everyone...

[Wendi]

Our prayers go out to the boat drivers and their families. As boaters we never want to hear this type of news. I hope they will be ok!!

[WMC]

Airlifted... not good... We hope everyone comes out alright

[Patyacht]

Another picture. Reports from no official source are 2 deceased

17419

[Patyacht]

Saw this on OSO & RDP:
Brad's brother Brian just confirmed that Brad and Jeff did pass away. Already there is some shit happening at the Smith shop with Tyson Garvin.

This is from Brian-

Terrible news has come from the Lake Cumberland poker run today, my brother Brad Smith and Jeff Asbell crashed, and both passed away. Tyson Garvin, immediately upon learning this news, called the Joplin Sheriff's Department. Tyson is currently standing outside the gates of the Smith Power shop, Brad's father is standing on the inside of the gates with them locked. Tyson is claiming that he has property on the perimeters of Smith Power and that he is there to "claim" them. Tyson Garvin has had nothing to do with Smith Power in the recent years and has NO PROPERTY on the perimeter. Tyson Garvin is a DIRT BAG, NO ONE in powerboating should associate with him. He has launched an attack on my family during a very tragic time. His life is nothing but lies. His true colors are shining now, and hopefully everyone around the nation can get a true taste of his character.

Courtesy of JW. Thanks JW.

[Patyacht]

Just got this:
http://speedonthewater.com/in-the-news/1487-two-dead-at-lake-cumberland-poker-run

[Wendi]

Our sincerest condolences to their family and friends. May they RIP and Godspeed. Very tragic news so sad.

[HB Vic]

Patyacht - I moved your thread. For some reason it was in the offroad section.

[gn7]

Some say roll some say stuff. Rumors flying now. Let the dust settle 1st.

Some say.......hear say....even some saying it was caused by a wake of a rouge boat crossing in front of them.
It was none of those.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=brBTPnREiKA

[Stainless]

Terrible accident! :(
I would like to hear what experts think about how lives might be saved in this situation. Enclosed cockpits? HANS type equip? I don't know much about these and never have I gone that fast.

[Patyacht]

Patyacht - I moved your thread. For some reason it was in the offroad section.
Thanks. So sad but this is the 2nd accident of this type this year. Time to learn for all of us. Was the lead - red boat angling right or did the green boat angle to the left or a little of both. Why was there a spectator boat so far out and so close to the action? Wonder if there was any helo shots so we can see a different angle and learn.

[Slacker]

To me it looks similiar of the DCB that went down during Desert Strom this past spring, according to the video.

[hpboats83]

To me it looks similiar of the DCB that went down during Desert Strom this past spring, according to the video.

Agree, looks extremely similar, RIP

Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk 4

[GotHalos]

Never like reading/hearing stories like this. Sad deal all the way around.

[rschap1]

:(
VERY sad

[Cat & Mice]

Super sad, RIP!!

From the video the red skater was overtaking the green skater. so I can't imagine the green skater had to turn to avoid a boat that just passed. after the flip you can see a third large cat pass between the wreck and the spectator boat so there seems to be plenty of room. It does not appear that the green boat was forced to go behind the red skater. Only aerial shots can give the whole story.

Its possible that when the green boat saw the red boat pass he was looking at it and naturally started to turn the way he was looking. at those speeds a very small turn at the wheel can make a huge difference in position. Its like when you go to change lanes on the freeway and look over your shoulder, its easy to slightly turn the way you are looking.

Either way its clear that cats going fast do not like to run in someones roost. Water does not compress like air and the water will lift the bow. Just like the DCB at DS. Although in that case it seems like the driver was forced or pinched. with just this video its hard to say the green Skater was forced to turn into the roost.

The one thing I hope happens from this is we start getting serious about proper safety gear. Its possible in this case proper neck restraints, jackets, and helmets would have saved two lives.

Disclaimer- this post is completely my own speculation.

MP

[Stainless]

Super sad, RIP!!

From the video the red skater was overtaking the green skater. so I can't imagine the green skater had to turn to avoid a boat that just passed. after the flip you can see a third large cat pass between the wreck and the spectator boat so there seems to be plenty of room. It does not appear that the green boat was forced to go behind the red skater. Only aerial shots can give the whole story.

Its possible that when the green boat saw the red boat pass he was looking at it and naturally started to turn the way he was looking. at those speeds a very small turn at the wheel can make a huge difference in position. Its like when you go to change lanes on the freeway and look over your shoulder, its easy to slightly turn the way you are looking.

Either way its clear that cats going fast do not like to run in someones roost. Water does not compress like air and the water will lift the bow. Just like the DCB at DS. Although in that case it seems like the driver was forced or pinched. with just this video its hard to say the green Skater was forced to turn into the roost.

The one thing I hope happens from this is we start getting serious about proper safety gear. Its possible in this case proper neck restraints, jackets, and helmets would have saved two lives.

Disclaimer- this post is completely my own speculation.

MP
Good insight! It does look alot like the incident at DS.

[Wendi]

Boating victims rememberedhttp://www.wkyt.com/news/headlines/Friends-in-Missouri-remember-boating-victims--222909291.html

[Cat & Mice]

after seeing the second video its pretty clear they turned left to avoid a cruiser crossing the lake in front of them. Its just a horrible accident. I am sure the cruiser had no idea that boats were approaching at those speeds. Not really anyones fault, just a series of things that ended up going wrong.

you never really know what happened unless you see everything from all angles.

MP

[Wendi]

after seeing the second video its pretty clear they turned left to avoid a cruiser crossing the lake in front of them. Its just a horrible accident. I am sure the cruiser had no idea that boats were approaching at those speeds. Not really anyones fault, just a series of things that ended up going wrong.

you never really know what happened unless you see everything from all angles.

MP I haven't seen the other video. So very sad just breaks my heart.

[Mitch]

I haven't seen the other video. So very sad just breaks my heart.


after seeing the second video its pretty clear they turned left to avoid a cruiser crossing the lake in front of them. Its just a horrible accident. I am sure the cruiser had no idea that boats were approaching at those speeds. Not really anyones fault, just a series of things that ended up going wrong.

you never really know what happened unless you see everything from all angles.

MP

You are so correct very tragic ..

[gn7]

I haven't seen the other video. So very sad just breaks my heart.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hvZdPk9Mgzw

[Stainless]

From that angle looks like the roost from the boat they attempted to overtake got under them?
Wonder if there is any scientific information about how much pressure is exerted by boat roost?
Just asking to generate healthy discussion, not applying blame to anyone.

[HB Vic]

Cats, unlike V's, want to fly. They are designed to pack air and lift the boat out of the water, at higher speeds. Even at slow speeds, Cats will launch off rollers and wakes. Where a V would more than likely plow through that same wake or roller. I've aired my little boat out a couple times where all I saw was sky for a split second. Makes you gasp for that split second, but then the boat lands and all is good. That was going less than 100. I would imagine, the smallest disturbance in the water, at the speeds those boats roll, can cause any number of things to happen. And more than likely there was absolutely nothing the driver could have done to prevent it. I agree with not placing blame. Two souls were lost and their families and friends are devastated. We may never know the true cause. For most of us, machines like that are probably not in our future. Just as in owning any exotic vehicle, there are inherent risks involved with operating them. For me personally, I would prefer to leave this earth doing something I love to do vs getting into a traffic accident on the freeway. Hopefully their families can find some solace in that. RIP guys.

[Stainless]

Cats, unlike V's, want to fly. They are designed to pack air and lift the boat out of the water, at higher speeds. Even at slow speeds, Cats will launch off rollers and wakes. Where a V would more than likely plow through that same wake or roller. I've aired my little boat out a couple times where all I saw was sky for a split second. Makes you gasp for that split second, but then the boat lands and all is good. That was going less than 100. I would imagine, the smallest disturbance in the water, at the speeds those boats roll, can cause any number of things to happen. And more than likely there was absolutely nothing the driver could have done to prevent it. I agree with not placing blame. Two souls were lost and their family and friends are devastated. We may never know the true cause. For most of us, machines like that are probably not in our future. Just as in owning any exotic vehicle, there are inherent risks involved with operating them. For me personally, I would prefer to leave this earth doing something I love to do vs getting into a traffic accident on the freeway. Hopefully their families can find some solace in that. RIP guys.

Good analogy HB, I have a small Daytona and I've had a couple of pucker moments with it too.

[gn7]

From that angle looks like the roost from the boat they attempted to overtake got under them?
Wonder if there is any scientific information about how much pressure is exerted by boat roost?
Just asking to generate healthy discussion, not applying blame to anyone.

Its not so much the pressure of the spray. Its that so much water goes into the entrapment tunnel that it can literally plug the exist out the back of the boat. The water isn't compressible, so it reduces the volume of the entrapment area as well. As the water stacks up in the back it plugs the exit for the air and to it builds up enough pressure to kite the boat. The effect is aggravated by the fact that at some point the boat had one sponson on each side of the lead boats wake, which in effect created a crest or ridge of water under the boat, taking up even more entrapment volume. Add in the fact that the boat became a little upset crossing the wake, it was enough to make the whole thing totally unstable. Who knows, 25-30 further back, 25-30 mph slower, and its just a bump in the water.

It looks from the 2 videos that the crossing boat was not in his view until he made that move, and it may have been a knee jerk reaction to move left to create more space/time between him and the crossing boat.
although the crossing boat was not as close as it appears in the second video, as evidenced in the first, (its out of the frame), at that speed stuff happens quick and he probably did what he thought was the safest thing to do. Sadly, its was safe for everybody involved but them.
If he had gone straight he probably would have cleared the boat with a slight move to the left if at all. But you have a split second to make that decision, and he did what he thought was the safest thing to do. One thing is certain, Asbell was more aware of his speed than the driver of the cruiser was, or he would have never crossed in front of those 2 boats. I bet once he was dead in their line he was wishing he was somewhere else.

I always wondered about some sort of pressure hatch in the deck that would allow the air to escape if it builds to high, or the nose exceeds a given angle of attack. Like the flaps on Cup car, that disrupt the airflow over the car to keep it from going air borne.

Sadly, this kind of thing is going to happen when you hold a Poker Run with boats that fast on an open lake. Nobody would consider allowing boats to cross the course at a drag race or a circle race. But Poker Runs are not considered "races", regardless of the speeds. You can't have a Honda Civic crossing the track at Indy or Daytona. Why do they continue to think they can allow it at a Poker Run when the boats are capable of those speeds?
Every time something like this happens, fewer and fewer sponsors, cities/lakes are going to be willing to have their name attached to them.

[rivrrts429]

Another angle. Not sure if posted already.

I believe the green Skater is off to the left at the beginning of the video.

http://youtu.be/2AoHBQNqNSg

[GotHalos]

Another angle. Not sure if posted already.

I believe the green Skater is off to the left at the beginning of the video.

http://youtu.be/2AoHBQNqNSg

Is it just me or is that way too close for comfort? If I was the guy in the fishing boat I think I would've bailed.

[rivrrts429]

Is it just me or is that way too close for comfort? If I was the guy in the fishing boat I think I would've bailed.

Yeah.. He's just a tad to far out there lol. I definitely would be hugging the shore.

Not sure who to point the finger at though.

[GRADS]

Poker runs are bullshit which is made clearly obvious by the last video. You want to have a "fun run" then limit the speeds to -80 mph. If you want to go any faster than that, have it on a closed course with all the safety equipment/training needed.

[In Awe]

Poker runs are bullshit which is made clearly obvious by the last video. You want to have a "fun run" then limit the speeds to -80 mph. If you want to go any faster than that, have it on a closed course with all the safety equipment/training needed.

This might be a first, but I agree with Grads. An open coarse puts the responsibilities right back on the driver that is going to fast for the conditions.

Again my thoughts and prayers go out to the family and friends.

[She's Mine]

Cats, unlike V's, want to fly. They are designed to pack air and lift the boat out of the water, at higher speeds. Even at slow speeds, Cats will launch off rollers and wakes. Where a V would more than likely plow through that same wake or roller. I've aired my little boat out a couple times where all I saw was sky for a split second. Makes you gasp for that split second, but then the boat lands and all is good. That was going less than 100. I would imagine, the smallest disturbance in the water, at the speeds those boats roll, can cause any number of things to happen. And more than likely there was absolutely nothing the driver could have done to prevent it. I agree with not placing blame. Two souls were lost and their families and friends are devastated. We may never know the true cause. For most of us, machines like that are probably not in our future. Just as in owning any exotic vehicle, there are inherent risks involved with operating them. For me personally, I would prefer to leave this earth doing something I love to do vs getting into a traffic accident on the freeway. Hopefully their families can find some solace in that. RIP guys.

Very well said... Such a sad and unnecessary loss. God Speed!

[Wendi]

Another angle. Not sure if posted already.

I believe the green Skater is off to the left at the beginning of the video.

http://youtu.be/2AoHBQNqNSg
Those spectators are way to close! That is extremely unsafe for all!!! They are squeezing the poker runners in my opinion.

[Tom Slick]

Those spectators are way to close! That is extremely unsafe for all!!! They are squeezing the poker runners in my opinion.

I have to completely disagree. Watch from the beginning of the clip. The rest of the poker run fleet continues down the center of the lake. This red skater turns left away from the fleet and heads straight toward the shoreline and the spectators. In fact you will see at the point where the red skater turns toward the spectators, the boat to the left of him cuts back across behind the red skaters line to hold a straight line down the lake with the rest of the fleet. This red skater is reckless and completely endangered himself and everyone else around him. Watch the video again and you'll wee what I'm talking about.

[rivrrts429]

Those spectators are way to close! That is extremely unsafe for all!!! They are squeezing the poker runners in my opinion.

The camera operator obviously knew about the PR, perhaps not the boat in the middle of the lake when the accident occurred?

Then the question becomes...

How many people are aware of the PR on a lake this size? How many casual boaters are aware during Desert Storm?

The why's and how's are endless. A lot less answers to this than there will be questions.

With the speeds these boats are routinely seeing maybe a heightened awareness to get the word out at the launch ramps, fuel stations, etc... may be a requirement from insurance and sanctioning bodies moving forward.

Regardless... The whole situation sucks and a lot of families are devastated. Godspeed to these men.

[Stainless]

I have to completely disagree. Watch from the beginning of the clip. The rest of the poker run fleet continues down the center of the lake. This red skater turns left away from the fleet and heads straight toward the shoreline and the spectators. In fact you will see at the point where the red skater turns toward the spectators, the boat to the left of him cuts back across behind the red skaters line to hold a straight line down the lake with the rest of the fleet. This red skater is reckless and completely endangered himself and everyone else around him. Watch the video again and you'll wee what I'm talking about.
Was the Red Skater trying to get some advantage on the rest of the fleet? I'm kind of like Wendi, it seems scary the way things are in the vid. Either the course is not well known or the red boat is trying to get an advantage. I dont see the green one in this video.

[Slacker]

Poker runs are bullshit which is made clearly obvious by the last video. You want to have a "fun run" then limit the speeds to -80 mph. If you want to go any faster than that, have it on a closed course with all the safety equipment/training needed.

Sorry I disagree. here in Havasu boats go 100 plus on a consistent basis, poker run or no poker run. No big deal.

[Slacker]

Was the Red Skater trying to get some advantage on the rest of the fleet? I'm kind of like Wendi, it seems scary the way things are in the vid. Either the course is not well known or the red boat is trying to get an advantage. I dont see the green one in this video.

It looks to me that operator cut the corner thru the spectator boats, bad move. Operators like that make Poker Runs look bad.

[Wendi]

I have to completely disagree. Watch from the beginning of the clip. The rest of the poker run fleet continues down the center of the lake. This red skater turns left away from the fleet and heads straight toward the shoreline and the spectators. In fact you will see at the point where the red skater turns toward the spectators, the boat to the left of him cuts back across behind the red skaters line to hold a straight line down the lake with the rest of the fleet. This red skater is reckless and completely endangered himself and everyone else around him. Watch the video again and you'll wee what I'm talking about.

I agree now, I watched it a second time and your are absolutely correct.

[gn7]

Its my guess there is some slight shortening of the course that the red Skater took, like there is a bend in the course ahead. The red Skater went INSIDE the spectator boat and the shoreline! None of the others did.

You cannot ever blame a spectator boat in a situation like this. Its paramount to holding the Long Beach Gran Prix on open streets. You enter the thing knowing the streets will have grandpa and the grand kids out for a Sunday drive out there. There is no difference between a Poker Run and any other weekend, except more boats traveling at high speeds than a normal weekend.

One of these days one of these boats is going to kill a boat full spectators, and the lawsuits are really going to fly.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0NGi5yU0FOs

[SummerO]

If you get a "regatta" permit at LOTO now (a poker run is considered a regatta by the state of Missouri), the Water Patrol mandates a 65 MPH speed limit. This was in part due to a few incidents similar to the video above and others.
That said, the spped limit is not always strictly adhered to by all the participants, but it does eliminate the very high speed runs such as Lake Cumberland that has no speed restriction. It also makes for a miserable day on a cat that doesn't lift out of the water until 90+ MPH.
It hasn't seemed to reduce the number of participants significantly, but those that choose not to run under the guidelines usually have plenty of choices of other places to go that day.
I didn't run the Shootout poker run for two reasons: The first being all the trash in the lake and I wanted to save my skegs and props for the Shootout runs, but also running around the lake at 65 MPH going from the same bars all day and not drinking anything really isnt a lot of fun for the driver!
Personally I would participate in a poker run without speed limits but you won't catch me up front trying everything to out run everyone else. I will save it for the shootout and early in the mornings when very few other boats are around.
I guess I'm old enough now I don't feel i have to prove anything to anyone but myself, so it's no big deal to me.
This was a tragic accident and I hope the families can eventually find peace.

[Stainless]

If you get a "regatta" permit at LOTO now (a poker run is considered a regatta by the state of Missouri), the Water Patrol mandates a 65 MPH speed limit. This was in part due to a few incidents similar to the video above and others.
That said, the spped limit is not always strictly adhered to by all the participants, but it does eliminate the very high speed runs such as Lake Cumberland that has no speed restriction. It also makes for a miserable day on a cat that doesn't lift out of the water until 90+ MPH.
It hasn't seemed to reduce the number of participants significantly, but those that choose not to run under the guidelines usually have plenty of choices of other places to go that day.
I didn't run the Shootout poker run for two reasons: The first being all the trash in the lake and I wanted to save my skegs and props for the Shootout runs, but also running around the lake at 65 MPH going from the same bars all day and not drinking anything really isnt a lot of fun for the driver!
Personally I would participate in a poker run without speed limits but you won't catch me up front trying everything to out run everyone else. I will save it for the shootout and early in the mornings when very few other boats are around.
I guess I'm old enough now I don't feel i have to prove anything to anyone but myself, so it's no big deal to me.
This was a tragic accident and I hope the families can eventually find peace.

Great post!

[gn7]

If you get a "regatta" permit at LOTO now (a poker run is considered a regatta by the state of Missouri), the Water Patrol mandates a 65 MPH speed limit. This was in part due to a few incidents similar to the video above and others.
That said, the spped limit is not always strictly adhered to by all the participants, but it does eliminate the very high speed runs such as Lake Cumberland that has no speed restriction. It also makes for a miserable day on a cat that doesn't lift out of the water until 90+ MPH.
It hasn't seemed to reduce the number of participants significantly, but those that choose not to run under the guidelines usually have plenty of choices of other places to go that day.
I didn't run the Shootout poker run for two reasons: The first being all the trash in the lake and I wanted to save my skegs and props for the Shootout runs, but also running around the lake at 65 MPH going from the same bars all day and not drinking anything really isnt a lot of fun for the driver!
Personally I would participate in a poker run without speed limits but you won't catch me up front trying everything to out run everyone else. I will save it for the shootout and early in the mornings when very few other boats are around.
I guess I'm old enough now I don't feel i have to prove anything to anyone but myself, so it's no big deal to me.
This was a tragic accident and I hope the families can eventually find peace.

Excellent post. Thank you. :thumbsUp:

[Powerboat Girl]

17874

Regardless how it happened, it happened and we are here today missing the great friends we once had .. May they rest in peace and thier names carry on as legends in the power boating industry. To really understand who these two men are not only to me and my husband but the rest of the power boating industry read at this link...

http://www.powerboatnation.com/content/353-jeff-asbell-brad-smith-s-lake-cumberland-boat-crash-reaches-beyond-life-itself.html

[HB Vic]

Boz, thank you for posting this. I saw it earlier on IG and was going to ask you if I could post it. I'm not 100%, but I believe I met Jeff & Brad at LOTO. Seemed like very nice guys, pretty reserved considering their passion. Horrific event and I wish their families and friends the best through this very difficult time. God speed guys.

[Powerboat Girl]

Boz, thank you for posting this. I saw it earlier on IG and was going to ask you if I could post it. I'm not 100%, but I believe I met Jeff & Brad at LOTO. Seemed like very nice guys, pretty reserved considering their passion. Horrific event and I wish their families and friends the best through this very difficult time. God speed guys.

Entirely possible they both come off as very reserved and quiet guys, you would know them anywhere by sporting the infamous smith power shirts...however they both had the biggest hearts!! They would help anyone.. It just saddens me that everyone is speculating to how this happened and not focusing on the two incredible and talented men the boating industry lost. Brad was fixing to take engines to a whole new level and was simply a genius when it came to motors,turbos and superchargers. May they both rest in peace and the drama come to a close so we can simply have time to mourn over the loss of these TWO LEGENDARY MEN 1787517876

[HB Vic]

Loved the Smith shirts. Very cool for sure. Sad deal all the way around.17877

[GotHalos]

Entirely possible they both come off as very reserved and quiet guys, you would know them anywhere by sporting the infamous smith power shirts...however they both had the biggest hearts!! They would help anyone.. It just saddens me that everyone is speculating to how this happened and not focusing on the two incredible and talented men the boating industry lost. Brad was fixing to take engines to a whole new level and was simply a genius when it came to motors,turbos and superchargers. May they both rest in peace and the drama come to a close so we can simply have time to mourn over the loss of these TWO LEGENDARY MEN 1787517876

Nicely stated.

[Wendi]

17874

Regardless how it happened, it happened and we are here today missing the great friends we once had .. May they rest in peace and thier names carry on as legends in the power boating industry. To really understand who these two men are not only to me and my husband but the rest of the power boating industry read at this link...

http://www.powerboatnation.com/content/353-jeff-asbell-brad-smith-s-lake-cumberland-boat-crash-reaches-beyond-life-itself.html
What a beautiful photo. Thank you for sharing this with us.

[hbchgirl]

Great photo... very sad. Prayers and condolences to their families and friends.


17874


Regardless how it happened, it happened and we are here today missing the great friends we once had .. May they rest in peace and thier names carry on as legends in the power boating industry. To really understand who these two men are not only to me and my husband but the rest of the power boating industry read at this link...

http://www.powerboatnation.com/content/353-jeff-asbell-brad-smith-s-lake-cumberland-boat-crash-reaches-beyond-life-itself.html

[Powerboat Girl]

17881 god speed brothers god had a big rebuild upstairs he needed you for.. Your time here was just to short.