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View Full Version : Sundance Saloon… Rumors, myths, and truths



HB Vic
10-27-2012, 09:39 AM
Back in the day, Sundance Saloon was the “hot spot” on theParker Strip. Sundance preceded most ofthe bars on the Parker Strip, and it was certainly the most well-known. The Shubin brothers built Sundance from the ground up in 1972. Sundance opened for business in 1972 and remained open through the early 2000’s.

For those of you who do not remember Sundance in its heyday, just imagine the legal drinking age being 19, an almost anything goes atmosphere, and hot girls and guys elbow to elbow in one of the largest party clubs in the West. In its prime,Sundance Saloon was the destination place whenever a trip to the Parker Strip was in order.

We recently had an opportunity to tour the saloon and meet with Jim Shubin. While the saloon is currently in disrepair, I could not help but remember what it was like when the saloon was open. I could hear the band playing, I could see people gathered around the large bar, tons of boats parked at thedocks, and people from wall to wall having a good time. It was almost more than a flashback, I had to pinch myself and gather my thoughts.

Sundance has somewhat of a checkered recent past. The property was sold and operated for several years until its final closing around 2005/2006. The previous owners returned the property tothe Shubins early in 2012. Faced with atremendous task of either renovating the property or marketing it for sale, the Shubins have decided to do both. A taskI could not imagine doing considering the current condition of the property.

Rumors circulated over the years that Sundance had various infrastructure issues including a rumored sewer system issue. These same rumors are what eventually forced Sundance to close its doors. Absolutely untrue according to Shubin. In fact, Shubin tells us that same sewer system can and has been approved for use today. Shubin goes on to say abigger/better sewer system will eventually be installed that will allow the property to be multi-use including potential condominiums and or a restaurant.

Currently the Shubin brothers are working very hard to bringback the icon of the Parker Strip. New docks have been installed and work is currently being done to reopen what was once the most famous saloon on the West Coast. Work will continue in preparation for a May2013 opening while the property is on the market or the Shubin’s find a suitable partner to potentially run the saloon.

When talking to Jim Shubin, one can’t help but sense the tremendous pride he has for the Saloon. One can’t help but also sense the sadness he feels for the Saloon in its current condition. Nonetheless, Shubin seems driven and excited for the future of the Saloon, taking the time to pointout some of the changes and improvements that are in the works for the Saloon.

Some might say, why do we need another Saloon on the Parker Strip?

I would simply respond, Sundance Saloon isn’t just another bar on the river. It is a world famous destination point that just happens to be on the Parker Strip.

We look forward to the grand reopening of the Sundance Saloon sometime in May 2013 and will certainly be there in support of the Shubins hard work.

-HB

http://www.hotboat.com/frm/attachment.php?attachmentid=628&stc=1&d=1351356159

http://www.hotboat.com/frm/attachment.php?attachmentid=624&stc=1&d=1351356070

HB Vic
10-27-2012, 09:43 AM
Few more

GotHalos
10-27-2012, 10:09 AM
Great pics! Can't wait!

big warlock
10-27-2012, 10:21 AM
That was a great write up!!! Lives the pics! Anything can be made right with money. How to capitalize it and create it over again is the ticket. Maybe when the economy turns around?

BoatsandBees
10-27-2012, 10:29 AM
Awesome!!!! Counting down the days till it re-opens!! :Banane21: Party on!

HB Vic
10-27-2012, 02:37 PM
For those who may not know, Sundance Saloon is located in Parker Arizona.

Mitch
10-27-2012, 03:03 PM
Great right up ...... If walls could talk .......

RioShock25
10-27-2012, 04:04 PM
Oh hell yeah! Nice write-up and best of luck to the Shubin's

HB Vic
10-27-2012, 05:04 PM
We could have spent the entire day there. Mr Shubin is a wealth of knowledge and is very passionate about the Sundance. We thoroughly enjoyed our time with him.

Skyskier
10-27-2012, 06:35 PM
As I recall, it was a big circus style tent the 1st couple years ? those day's are kinda "hazy" to me now :grey::confused-new:
http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd289/skyskier/sundanceposter1.jpg

GoFastRacer
10-27-2012, 08:00 PM
I remember when they had wet T-shirt contests on the balcony on a Sat afternoon and it was solid boats all across the river, the good days...

Mitch
10-27-2012, 11:27 PM
How many cans of coors beer were consumed during its run,

Mitch
10-27-2012, 11:33 PM
I remember when they had wet T-shirt contests on the balcony on a Sat afternoon and it was solid boats all across the river, the good says...

Arthur wasnt the tent called Sundance Revival after the original Sundance burnt down .

RiverRacer
10-27-2012, 11:50 PM
Well, when Sundance opened most of us were 19 or 20(too young to drink in CA). We'd come over from the Californian to AZ with some Coors beer(NOT available in AZ at the time) and drink. When it was gone we'd wind up either at Sundance, or the Rock Palace, were we could drink legally.

Spent MANY weekends at both those places. Parker was the 'RIVIERA' of the West at that time. Royalty, Movie Stars, Rock Stars, Billionaires and guys like us all thrown in the mix. A time unlike any other before, or since.

Hope it returns. Too many stuffed shirts with 50' boats there now. I hang below the bridge, but I'd come back for a visit if Sundance reopened. Hope it does.

Thanks for the article and the pictures.

RR

GoFastRacer
10-28-2012, 06:16 AM
How many cans of coors beer were consumed during its run,
A whole shit load, I can vouch for that, LOL...

GoFastRacer
10-28-2012, 06:17 AM
Arthur wasnt the tent called Sundance Revival after the original Sundance burnt down .
Hmmm, I believe it was???...

framer1
10-28-2012, 07:32 AM
Great pictures, i used to go there when it was the Rumrunner. Fun place for sure.

Mitch
10-28-2012, 08:02 AM
Great pictures, i used to go there when it was the Rumrunner. Fun place for sure.

Rum Runner Nice 68-69? Place was off the hook.

framer1
10-29-2012, 10:05 AM
Rum Runner Nice 68-69? Place was off the hook.



Probably was around 68 or 69. It was the old hippie days, lot of free loving going on....makes me feel old;)

WMC
10-29-2012, 10:28 AM
The place is gonna be off the hook when it re-opens.

rioracr
10-29-2012, 07:32 PM
the days when hot boats had the morning and afternoons for racing, alot of tubing and floating before jet skis tore up the water, then afternoon fun that started at RR wet-t and ended at Sundance wet-t and there were not many cameras so it was a much looser time for all.........great memories :smilies_mit_hut008:

WMC
10-29-2012, 09:01 PM
the days when hot boats had the morning and afternoons for racing, alot of tubing and floating before jet skis tore up the water, then afternoon fun that started at RR wet-t and ended at Sundance wet-t and there were not many cameras so it was a much looser time for all.........great memories :smilies_mit_hut008:

I think everthing was LOOSER back then.:smilies_mit_hut012:

WMC
10-29-2012, 09:25 PM
More pic's

Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk 2

WMC
10-29-2012, 09:39 PM
1993

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G3Jgrl2yMPc

GotHalos
10-29-2012, 10:05 PM
Well, when Sundance opened most of us were 19 or 20(too young to drink in CA). We'd come over from the Californian to AZ with some Coors beer(NOT available in AZ at the time) and drink. When it was gone we'd wind up either at Sundance, or the Rock Palace, were we could drink legally.

Spent MANY weekends at both those places. Parker was the 'RIVIERA' of the West at that time. Royalty, Movie Stars, Rock Stars, Billionaires and guys like us all thrown in the mix. A time unlike any other before, or since.

Hope it returns. Too many stuffed shirts with 50' boats there now. I hang below the bridge, but I'd come back for a visit if Sundance reopened. Hope it does.

Thanks for the article and the pictures.

RR

Great insight, must have been one good time back then. How come Coors wasn't available in AZ at the time?

Cigalert
10-30-2012, 06:09 AM
How many bars were in operation at peak times and how many bartenders/servers/bouncers did it take to control that much crap?


Great insight, must have been one good time back then. How come Coors wasn't available in AZ at the time?

The bandit can only do so much.

WMC
10-30-2012, 06:14 AM
They would have 32 bartenders on big weekends and sold more tequila then the casino

Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk 2

Cigalert
10-30-2012, 07:18 AM
Based on my math, that's about 240 free drinks being given away every shift. But that also means, any good bartender (based on 80's pricing) should be able to turn and burn $750-1200 in sales per shift (that's low in my estimation) while bringing down about $150-300 a shift during peak season. A good place to visit and a good place to work.

I don't think it's going to be what it was for many reasons outside of ownership control...it could be cool but the days of old are just that.

It would be nice to visit a place of such legendary status if it's restored to anywhere near what it was for both ambiance and clientele.

Mitch
10-30-2012, 08:47 AM
Great insight, must have been one good time back then. How come Coors wasn't available in AZ at the time?

I do remember my dad bringing many cases at a time because they couldnt get it at the river .

rioracr
10-30-2012, 01:28 PM
if I remember right the Buckskin Fire boat use to film every weekend and then used the films for training, what a life if those films were still around, would be alot of explaining...:Banane21:

SBS933
10-30-2012, 02:46 PM
Awesome news, i remember seeing all the RumRunner shirts around Parker as a kid. I also remember partying down at Sundance then heading to Havasu. It was a mandatory stop, and after spending 2 weeks at Parker this month i was wondering what was going on with the work start-up at Sundance. I figured they were tearing it down.

Cindy Lou
11-01-2012, 02:20 PM
I seem to remember that the Sundance also had a big party barge on the river that would advertise the bar and the wet tee shirt contests. Does anyone else remember that?

obnoxious001
11-01-2012, 02:27 PM
I seem to remember that the Sundance also had a big party barge on the river that would advertise the bar and the wet tee shirt contests. Does anyone else remember that?

I think that was the pontoon boat that was tied to the dock for years, partially sinking the last times I saw it.

RVRKID
11-01-2012, 11:05 PM
I seem to remember that the Sundance also had a big party barge on the river that would advertise the bar and the wet tee shirt contests. Does anyone else remember that?

I remember that boat going up and down river with girls on the top in the late 70's.

GoFastRacer
11-02-2012, 05:55 AM
I remember that boat going up and down river with girls on the top in the late 70's.
And the 80's..:D

GoFastRacer
11-02-2012, 05:57 AM
I think that was the pontoon boat that was tied to the dock for years, partially sinking the last times I saw it.
Yep, that's the one..

Mitch
11-02-2012, 09:13 AM
I believe it was a laughlin casino crossing boat in its first life?

niceguyeddie
11-02-2012, 12:38 PM
This is awesome!!

Take The Long Way Home
11-02-2012, 05:49 PM
I will try to find my pic's when I was there in the eary 80's

Baja Bill
11-03-2012, 08:32 PM
10221023
I think that was the pontoon boat that was tied to the dock for years, partially sinking the last times I saw it.

Here ya go. 2011

GotHalos
11-03-2012, 08:42 PM
The boat was there for the longest time, such a shame.

rioracr
11-03-2012, 09:00 PM
they had a two story boat at first and when they would cruise up and down the river it only had girls on it and jim drove it, then they got the pontoon, what a party
:smilies_mit_hut029::Banane21:

Mitch
11-03-2012, 09:07 PM
they had a two story boat at first and when they would cruise up and down the river it only had girls on it and jim drove it, then they got the pontoon, what a party
:smilies_mit_hut029::Banane21:

got a any pictures ?

boatnam1
11-04-2012, 08:22 AM
they had a two story boat at first and when they would cruise up and down the river it only had girls on it and jim drove it, then they got the pontoon, what a party
:smilies_mit_hut029::Banane21:

When i was 17 my buddy and i were staying at ah villa or la paz(PIRATES DEN) for you newer guys and got picked up by this boat and we said we would do the macho man contest. The boat was loaded with hot chicks and boones farm wine and the titties i got to see that day were incredible. Of course when we got to Sundance we confessed to not being of age and that we couldn't be in contest.....We magically got let in finished most the day in Sundance. Finally left the place minutes from passing out in the bushes out front of the place and got lucky my other buddy drove by to check on us and picked us up, it was 115 out I don't think we would of lived lol...One of the best days of my life.

Mitch
11-05-2012, 05:38 AM
The water side is starting to look good still alot to do ,I counted ten half finished projects on the water side .

WMC
11-05-2012, 07:28 AM
When i was 17 my buddy and i were staying at ah villa or la paz(PIRATES DEN) for you newer guys and got picked up by this boat and we said we would do the macho man contest. The boat was loaded with hot chicks and boones farm wine and the titties i got to see that day were incredible. Of course when we got to Sundance we confessed to not being of age and that we couldn't be in contest.....We magically got let in finished most the day in Sundance. Finally left the place minutes from passing out in the bushes out front of the place and got lucky my other buddy drove by to check on us and picked us up, it was 115 out I don't think we would of lived lol...One of the best days of my life.
That's a great story

Mitch
11-05-2012, 08:42 AM
A friend and his wife came to our place shes all proper in a good way and she kept asking questions about the place across the river from us "La Paz" I thought the many questions were odd but no big deal.When we were alone she asked is that place across from you Ah Villa and I told her it used to be she asked if Sundance was still there I told her just the building. So i asked her what the attraction was to all this she turned red and said me and my boy friend in high school used to sneak down here to go to Sundance to hear the bands and dance ,we had no money for food or a room so we slept in a tent in the dirt and ate canned soup ,warmed it by setting it in the sun . She said she was 16 lol

Spam
11-05-2012, 09:01 AM
http://fliiby.com/file/339612/m5a73qhdel.html

WMC
11-05-2012, 09:02 AM
A friend and his wife came to our place shes all proper in a good way and she kept asking questions about the place across the river from us "La Paz" I thought the many questions were odd but no big deal.When we were alone she asked is that place across from you Ah Villa and I told her it used to be she asked if Sundance was still there I told her just the building. So i asked her what the attraction was to all this she turned red and said me and my boy friend in high school used to sneak down here to go to Sundance to hear the bands and dance ,we had no money for food or a room so we slept in a tent in the dirt and ate canned soup ,warmed it by setting it in the sun . She said she was 16 lol
Nice... You can't make that stuff up.

mbrown2
11-05-2012, 09:45 AM
Cool write up....used to go there in the 90's and even the last couple of years of the foam party....it was not one of the stops of the day, it was the stop and the last stop of the day. If you got parking on a 3 day weekend, you were lucky. Still have trophy's in the river house from the hot body and macho men contests....Not sure it could ever be the same, but it does not hurt to try...heck RR and Foxes have lasted...

GotHalos
11-05-2012, 05:00 PM
LOL, lot's of great stories in here, gotta wonder how many people started going to the river just because of SUNDANCE.

Baja Bill
11-05-2012, 10:23 PM
http://fliiby.com/file/339612/m5a73qhdel.html

Love the part where they are skiing behind the truck. We used to do that in the 70's at Glamis behind VW buggies on the canal.

Cole Trickle
11-06-2012, 10:38 AM
cool thread.....:)

I was "accused" of BUI leaving a sundance foam party. Cop said I had been drinking and my eyes were glassy.

I told him I had an alergic reaction to the suds and the judge liked my story:D

Stainless
11-06-2012, 11:47 AM
cool thread.....:)

I was "accused" of BUI leaving a sundance foam party. Cop said I had been drinking and my eyes were glassy.

I told him I had an alergic reaction to the suds and the judge liked my story:D

:D:D

GotHalos
11-06-2012, 05:56 PM
cool thread.....:)

I was "accused" of BUI leaving a sundance foam party. Cop said I had been drinking and my eyes were glassy.

I told him I had an alergic reaction to the suds and the judge liked my story:D

LOL :D Now that is how you do it!

Tamalewagon
11-15-2012, 11:47 AM
Oh what memories (or the lack thereof).

HB Vic
11-15-2012, 11:55 AM
Oh what memories (or the lack thereof).

Did you say memories or mamories?

Welcome to www.hotboat.com

HB

GotHalos
12-09-2012, 10:07 PM
http://gigland.com/journeys/images/Bluewater/Sundance1.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploads18/sundance1281976669.jpg

BUMP :D

GoFastRacer
12-10-2012, 06:37 AM
http://gigland.com/journeys/images/Bluewater/Sundance1.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploads18/sundance1281976669.jpg

BUMP :D
The good ole days..:thumb:

Wendi
12-10-2012, 07:50 AM
The good ole days..:thumb:

Holy crap that is alot of people.

GoFastRacer
12-10-2012, 08:38 AM
Holy crap that is alot of people.
It was a popular place..:biggrin:

HB Vic
12-10-2012, 08:41 AM
I remember those days 😁

rioracr
12-10-2012, 10:03 AM
all those river rats were watching the boats shows before the Wet-T contest, alot of winners picked before the contest ever started :beguiled:

K-034
12-10-2012, 02:12 PM
2441

My dad and uncles use to raise hell there.
We usualy stop by everytime we go to cali, can't wait to see it reopened

fasterthebetter
12-10-2012, 03:42 PM
I was to young back then, but these look like the good ol days

http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i109/19chrissy/3456496611.jpg

dj bill
12-11-2012, 11:28 AM
cannot wait for this summer.sundance here we come,sorry foxs and roadrunner.

NRI
12-11-2012, 05:35 PM
Wet T shirt, Live bare nuckle boxing like back in the day ?

HB Vic
12-11-2012, 09:35 PM
I was to young back then, but these look like the good ol days

http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i109/19chrissy/3456496611.jpg

Yeah thats kind of what I remember. Lol

GoFastRacer
12-12-2012, 06:46 AM
I was to young back then, but these look like the good ol days

http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i109/19chrissy/3456496611.jpg
Yes they are, should have seen at night time,LOL..

GotHalos
12-18-2012, 09:17 PM
cannot wait for this summer.sundance here we come,sorry foxs and roadrunner.

It's going to be a fun one! Will be interesting to see how busy it gets, now that there is competition from Pirates and the Casino.

Offishial Business
12-18-2012, 09:40 PM
would love to see that place open again

GotHalos
12-19-2012, 04:24 PM
would love to see that place open again

Your wish will come true this summer I believe. Sundance 2013.

Mitch
12-19-2012, 04:33 PM
Your wish will come true this summer I believe. Sundance 2013.

With the foam machine and peder meter ?

WMC
12-19-2012, 05:34 PM
With the foam machine and peder meter ?

the 80's are long gone. But pasties are in.:barbershop_quartet_

rivergames
12-20-2012, 04:44 PM
I really hope it opens up this Summer. Hit up Fox's for some afternoon passes and Sundance for the late nite party :devilish:

Wendi
01-09-2013, 02:08 PM
Just got off the phone with Nick Shubin and they are still looking to open Memorial weekend 2013. They are awaiting the liquor license (already approved) and working on completing the docs now with the new swim up area and bar area where you will have your feet in the water. Next time we are in town, we will go by and get some current pictures. Fingers crossed they get all details completed and we will all be partying at the "New" Sundance Saloon Memorial weekend.

Wendi
01-09-2013, 02:09 PM
With the foam machine and peder meter ?

Mitch you crack me up! The Shubin bros. have calmed down alot since the 80's. But who knows what's up their sleeves for fun in 2013; )

Mitch
01-09-2013, 07:47 PM
cant wait ..... W/W when you guys go can I go with ?

dj bill
01-09-2013, 08:04 PM
just got off the phone with nick shubin and they are still looking to open memorial weekend 2013. They are awaiting the liquor license (already approved) and working on completing the docs now with the new swim up area and bar area where you will have your feet in the water. Next time we are in town, we will go by and get some current pictures. Fingers crossed they get all details completed and we will all be partying at the "new" sundance saloon memorial weekend.

hell yes !!!

SBS933
01-10-2013, 08:27 AM
Drove past Sundance last week on the water, they are working everyday to get it open. Got a pic and will post it tonight.

WMC
01-10-2013, 08:30 AM
cant wait ..... W/W when you guys go can I go with ?
Yes you can. How about a hotboat.com drink special? Wendi make it happen:applause:

WMC
01-10-2013, 08:56 AM
Drove past Sundance last week on the water, they are working everyday to get it open. Got a pic and will post it tonight.

Great thanks SBS933

SBS933
01-11-2013, 10:49 AM
3127

WMC
01-11-2013, 11:28 AM
3127


Looking good, nice banner at the top too :)

HB Vic
01-11-2013, 11:49 AM
Looking good, nice banner at the top too :)

Hard to believe those chinese tywraps are hanging in there.

Mitch
01-11-2013, 05:06 PM
To floor HB world headquarters ....

WMC
01-11-2013, 05:41 PM
To floor HB world headquarters ....

Yup. :D

Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk 2

78Southwind
01-11-2013, 09:28 PM
Nice pictures and write-up.

Mitch
01-12-2013, 09:09 AM
Arizona needs to make it a Historical land mark , Tequilla was the number one drink in the day what do you think it will be when it opens ?

WMC
01-12-2013, 10:01 AM
Arizona needs to make it a Historical land mark , Tequilla was the number one drink in the day what do you think it will be when it opens ?

:barbershop_quartet_ Fireball. Told Wend to make sure to give the brothers a heads up on Fireball

Wendi
02-19-2013, 02:50 PM
Stopped by sundance yesterday did another tour with Jim Shubin looks like the opening is on schedule. They have staffed up to get the place complete. Liquor license approved and fireball will be plentiful as we told Jim it is the new tequila.
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/02/20/2ajasepa.jpg
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/02/20/a8y7u9u2.jpg
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/02/20/6upesyju.jpg

Deranged
02-19-2013, 08:22 PM
Every time I hear about Sundance it makes me think I was born a decade too late!! Sounds like I missed a great time...

riverratmike
02-19-2013, 08:30 PM
wow great news! I had some drunkin times at that place over the years.

HB Vic
02-19-2013, 08:32 PM
Every time I hear about Sundance it makes me think I was born a decade too late!! Sounds like I missed a great time...

For some odd reason we have a bottle of that stuff sitting on our counter. I've had it before, but dont remember what it tastes like :D

Welcome to www.hotboat.com

HB

GotHalos
02-19-2013, 08:39 PM
Every time I hear about Sundance it makes me think I was born a decade too late!! Sounds like I missed a great time...

LOL, I'm with you on that :smile:

rioracr
02-25-2013, 02:17 PM
some early pic's of the bar and two of their party boats, if you could put some pasties on the girls on last boat then we can add it to the record of Sundance
493649374938

Mitch
03-04-2013, 09:26 PM
Shubin was denied this feb.on his app for a Liquor license and does not have one . Also he did not pull any permits on his remodel / cleanup work it appears building officials have been watching the progress with no permits .

WMC
03-04-2013, 09:52 PM
Don't count it out yet. I read the parker pioneer. They have not been denied.
Here's the link
http://parkerpioneer.net/articles/20...a493369949.txt (http://parkerpioneer.net/articles/2013/03/04/news/doc51352c05837ea493369949.txt)

EMBRACETHEHATE
03-04-2013, 09:59 PM
Reminds me of a place where my dad used to race on thursday nights. Its called blarneys island on the fox lake in Illinois. Went there last year, first time to go since i was 5.

You would watch the races from the island or your boat, then after you would park at the island. Great time i had.

sent from my galaxy tab 2

Mitch
03-04-2013, 10:10 PM
Don't count it out yet. I read the parker pioneer. They have not been denied.
Here's the link
http://parkerpioneer.net/articles/20...a493369949.txt (http://parkerpioneer.net/articles/2013/03/04/news/doc51352c05837ea493369949.txt)

So you think the state will overide the recomended denial ? Highly unlikely ,the purpose of the board is to recommend to the state as what to do ?

WMC
03-04-2013, 10:18 PM
So you think the state will overide the recomended denial ? Highly unlikely ,the purpose of the board is to recommend to the state as what to do ?
It was do to back taxes. Open Sundance and pay back taxes win win and win for Hotboat. I want to have a Hotboat party there:party1:

hbchgirl
03-04-2013, 10:42 PM
Great write up! Looking forward to the Sundance re-opening!

GotHalos
03-05-2013, 12:47 AM
Reminds me of a place where my dad used to race on thursday nights. Its called blarneys island on the fox lake in Illinois. Went there last year, first time to go since i was 5.

You would watch the races from the island or your boat, then after you would park at the island. Great time i had.

sent from my galaxy tab 2

Sounds rad! Any pictures? Don't want to thread jack, in a new thread of course :smile:

GotHalos
03-05-2013, 01:00 AM
I am by no means an expert on this, but it has happened before. It is ultimately the states decision as to whether or not they want to override the board, city council, and/or the mayors decision in such matter.

You have to think, as long as the courts get what they want ($$$) and all necessary preconditions are met for the application process it will be approved? My .02 anyway.

Mitch
03-05-2013, 09:14 AM
gothalos

They applied for a liquor license as in bar . Fyi there is not one Liquor only license on the Parker strip they are restaurants that serve alcohol .They had the only liquor only license 30 years ago . See you there on the 15 ill buy the first round.

WMC
03-05-2013, 09:46 AM
What about me? :jumping-smiley-019:

Mitch
03-05-2013, 10:14 AM
What about me? :jumping-smiley-019:

We have a bottle of Fireball un opened waiting for you Wendi and Vic when you stop by . This weekend ? Dark beer for Nick !

GotHalos
03-05-2013, 10:22 AM
gothalos

They applied for a liquor license as in bar . Fyi there is not one Liquor only license on the Parker strip they are restaurants that serve alcohol .They had the only liquor only license 30 years ago . See you there on the 15 ill buy the first round.

Oops lol. In that news article it says they are going to sell food as well? No wonder the parties there were off the hook, they only served liquid lunch and dinner lol.

I'll see you there!! :biggrin:

Mitch
03-05-2013, 10:31 AM
:smiley-fish:

Wendi
03-05-2013, 12:34 PM
I've printed the article and am going to talk to Shubin Friday. Let's see what he has to say. I can't see him putting all this work and $$$ into the place for no reason. It won't sale without a liquor license (which is his ultimate goal), so I'm sure he will come up with the money owed to bring Sundance alive. We shall see.

:goodluck:

EMBRACETHEHATE
03-06-2013, 09:54 PM
Sounds rad! Any pictures? Don't want to thread jack, in a new thread of course :smile:

Only one i have me in the thong bar. My sister joked with me that my Mothers panties maybe hanging in there from long ago.

Sorry to hijack, no more :)


sent from my galaxy tab 2

NRI
03-07-2013, 12:06 PM
Thanks Joe!
We have a bottle of Fireball un opened waiting for you Wendi and Vic when you stop by . This weekend ? Dark beer for Nick !

WMC
03-14-2013, 09:24 PM
#TBT shared on our Facebook page. Shared by Jerry Vander Loop
5742

RiverRenegade
03-18-2013, 05:01 PM
Oh yeah!!! Watch out, Let the fun begin. Opening day can't come soon enough. This will be the place to be come summer. The Shubin's are definately the icons of the Parker strip. We cant wait to be a part of the insanity that will arise at the Sundance! This is truly where the statement "what happens at the river stays at the river" was born.

GotHalos
03-18-2013, 05:07 PM
Oh yeah!!! Watch out, Let the fun begin. Opening day can't come soon enough. This will be the place to be come summer. The Shubin's are definately the icons of the Parker strip. We cant wait to be a
art of the insanity that will arise at the Sundance! This is truly where the statement "what happens at the river stays at the river" was born.
Looking forward to it as well! Before you know it, summer.will be here. Welcome to the hotboat.com as well!

WMC
03-18-2013, 05:32 PM
X2 welcome

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dj bill
04-01-2013, 04:10 PM
any update on how its going,opening day,pics ?

WMC
04-02-2013, 07:31 AM
We will go by this week and give up date

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Wendi
04-04-2013, 12:58 PM
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/04/05/8a9ysuty.jpg[/IMG
[IMG]http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/04/05/by4amaty.jpg

Wendi
04-04-2013, 01:00 PM
Still working new banner up days open in May unfortunately Shubins were not there to talk about grand opening or the liquor license / committee issue.

Wendi
04-04-2013, 08:57 PM
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/04/05/buvyrypy.jpg

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/04/05/2e9udaqa.jpg

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/04/05/a8yvujad.jpg

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/04/05/by2adasy.jpg

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/04/05/7ety7ary.jpg

Autophysn
04-08-2013, 09:09 PM
My goodness does this bring me some memories. I was too young to enjoy the good ole days. Then when I became of age, I had other things going on in my life. I have noticed that the entire Parker Strip is much calmer than I remember it. I very clearly remember being a kid on the beach, waiting for the Sundance boat to come by and pick up the girls. Being a pre-teen back then, it was awesome!
I truly do hope they open this place back up. Now that I am in my mid 30's, I would love to see it again. I stopped by a few years ago, and took some photos of what was left, and came up to the road being closed. We use to head out there around 6 to 7 times per season. So I remember hearing lots of stories. Mainly accidents of the par-tiers coming back from the Sundance. We always stayed at Buckskin, So awesome back then. Now I hear they tore down the cabanas and leveled it out. Argh, hopefully this comes back. I can't wait! Thanks for the article!

GotHalos
04-08-2013, 09:13 PM
My goodness does this bring me some memories. I was too young to enjoy the good ole days. Then when I became of age, I had other things going on in my life. I have noticed that the entire Parker Strip is much calmer than I remember it. I very clearly remember being a kid on the beach, waiting for the Sundance boat to come by and pick up the girls. Being a pre-teen back then, it was awesome!
I truly do hope they open this place back up. Now that I am in my mid 30's, I would love to see it again. I stopped by a few years ago, and took some photos of what was left, and came up to the road being closed. We use to head out there around 6 to 7 times per season. So I remember hearing lots of stories. Mainly accidents of the par-tiers coming back from the Sundance. We always stayed at Buckskin, So awesome back then. Now I hear they tore down the cabanas and leveled it out. Argh, hopefully this comes back. I can't wait! Thanks for the article!

Thanks for sharing! Hopefully it opens as planned on schedule, we'll see. Welcome to the site!! :thumbup:

Wendi
05-08-2013, 09:14 AM
Just got off the phone with Nick Shubin and I have an update on Sundance grand opening Memorial Weekend. Last week they received approval from the County for their liquor license. Meeting minutes have been sent to Liquor Control so they can get the actual Liquor license. Everything is looking good. They are working hard so they can get final approval from Health & Safety and Building & Code. We also discussed VIP passes for our members for Memorial Weekend. I will keep you all posted on that. I did mention to him FIREBALL Whiskey must be on hand. He is meeting with the Bar Manager this weekend and will make sure there is plenty :party1::party1:

Mitch
05-08-2013, 10:57 AM
Wendi thanks for the update ......

Stainless
05-08-2013, 12:07 PM
Fireball yea!;)

RioShock25
05-08-2013, 12:39 PM
Awesome news! Thanks

hbchgirl
05-08-2013, 01:25 PM
Thanks for the update... looking forward to it's re-opening and Memorial Day weekend! :party-smiley-020:

Just Electric
05-08-2013, 03:54 PM
nice cant wait to go down memory lane :)

GotHalos
05-09-2013, 12:55 AM
VIP? :hmmm:

Wendi
05-11-2013, 08:17 AM
Don't think Memorial will happen as they still have to go through health code inspections and building and safety. They are hoping for Tube Float weekend June 8th!!

GotHalos
05-11-2013, 01:51 PM
Don't think Memorial will happen as they still have to go through health code inspections and building and safety. They are hoping for Tube Float weekend June 8th!!

Bummer.

WMC
05-12-2013, 07:40 AM
Bummer.

Tube Float is still a great weekend.

WMC
05-20-2013, 12:11 PM
Had a chance to go by Sundance this past weekend. They are working hard but still a lot to do. .1105211053110541105711059110601106111062110631106 41106511066

riverbound
05-21-2013, 09:26 AM
Cant wait.

H2oSki2Fast
05-21-2013, 10:01 AM
Cant wait.

Just what you need, another bar to hang out at.

Hammer
05-21-2013, 07:44 PM
So it won't be opening this weekend ?

WMC
05-21-2013, 08:05 PM
So it won't be opening this weekend ?

No not happening this weekend.

Wendi
05-21-2013, 08:14 PM
So it won't be opening this weekend ?

They still have quite a bit of clean up, finishing the docs, and all the health and code inspections to pass. Liquor license approved.

riverbound
05-21-2013, 10:11 PM
Just what you need, another bar to hang out at.

What did you say kettle? ;)

Hammer
05-21-2013, 10:23 PM
No not happening this weekend.

That's unfortunate. Hope to see the HB crew this weekend !

Hammer
05-21-2013, 10:24 PM
They still have quite a bit of clean up, finishing the docs, and all the health and code inspections to pass. Liquor license approved.

Is my GF going to he around Parker this weekend ? Lol :D

Wendi
05-22-2013, 06:29 AM
Is my GF going to he around Parker this weekend ? Lol :D

Yep she will be haha

Wendi
05-29-2013, 08:33 AM
It's official grand opening June 7th, Parker Tube Float weekend. Got a call from Nick Shubin telling me how excited they are. The main bar and docks will be open and serving. Nick and his girls were cruising up and down the river this weekend with the "Bull Horn" telling everyone about the grand re-opening. Felt like old times again. We are working on VIP passes for Hotboat.com members. Hope you all go by and say hello and support Sundance! It's gonna be a great place on the water and lots of history and old school pictures will line the walls for your viewing pleasure. They have also purchased two very large cooling systems that will be placed in the main bar area to help cool you off from the outside heat! 11625

WMC
05-31-2013, 08:36 AM
Running up and down the river Memorial. Like the good ole days11724

hbchgirl
05-31-2013, 11:36 AM
Can't wait!!! :party1:

Wendi
06-07-2013, 11:45 AM
Not opening this weekend new grand opening June 28th!!

dj bill
06-07-2013, 12:14 PM
perfect for me,at echo july 2 thru 7th

Wendi
06-17-2013, 02:54 PM
Due to electrical issues Sundance will not be opening July 4th. They still have a lot of work to do with regards to inspections and are going to extend a grand opening date to Labor Day weekend. I will keep you all updated as I get updates from Mr. Shubin.

admin
06-17-2013, 03:40 PM
Testing 123

foxfam312
06-17-2013, 05:27 PM
Make it happen sundance


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WMC
06-18-2013, 09:43 AM
working now

dj bill
06-18-2013, 10:09 AM
Goddamit !

hbchgirl
06-18-2013, 11:22 AM
Due to electrical issues Sundance will not be opening July 4th. They still have a lot of work to do with regards to inspections and are going to extend a grand opening date to Labor Day weekend. I will keep you all updated as I get updates from Mr. Shubin.

Bummer :cry2:

Mitch
06-18-2013, 10:12 PM
Bummer :cry2:

Sheeeeeet.

GotHalos
06-18-2013, 10:32 PM
I forsee all the hype and minor setbacks building up to an even bigger grand opening (:

dj bill
06-19-2013, 07:43 AM
for the snowbirds

Bobby V
06-19-2013, 08:28 AM
for the snowbirds

Some of the snowbirds may have partyed there back in the day. :angry-smiley-018:

dj bill
06-19-2013, 04:26 PM
I am sure the shubins are shittin their pants watching the prime time weekends roll by without opening the roll ups but I understand. Looks like it'll be done for the last weekend of summer. Guess I will have to ride the mc out there for the day just to have a brew like the old days. Wish them nothing but the best and always reminisce when motoring by there.they were my first floating bar experience on my first river trip back in 1986.

RyanPartridge
06-20-2013, 09:14 AM
Stopped by there a while back and grabbed a couple goodies...

GotHalos
06-24-2013, 11:52 AM
Stopped by there a while back and grabbed a couple goodies...

Good stuff! :thumbup: :partytime:

HB Vic
07-02-2013, 10:10 AM
Ran in to Mr. Shubin yesterday in town. Looks like things are on hold for a bit. Sounds like the liquor license is a done deal, no issue there. Part of the issue may be locating and hiring staff. So for now he is looking at Labor Day Weekend. We'll get more information as soon as possible.

Brian
07-02-2013, 11:26 AM
Saw the for sale sign back up a few days ago.

HB Vic
07-02-2013, 12:49 PM
Saw the for sale sign back up a few days ago.

I think the Shubins have always been in the market for a partner(s). So I think the sign will stay until they find one.

dj bill
07-07-2013, 05:17 PM
wensday they were working on the new roofs on the outside bars

HB Vic
07-07-2013, 06:18 PM
Yes it looks like the outdoor bar areas are covered now. So progress!!

aguilar84
07-15-2013, 05:07 PM
did the sundance re-open?

HB Vic
07-15-2013, 05:10 PM
did the sundance re-open?

Negative. Last I heard Labor Day. We'll have to check in with the Shubins and find out for sure

dj bill
08-07-2013, 08:05 AM
so whats the delio,still on track for labor day ?

WMC
08-07-2013, 08:30 AM
so whats the delio,still on track for labor day ?

We will be in Parker tomorrow. Update soon

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Wendi
08-07-2013, 09:50 AM
so whats the delio,still on track for labor day ?
I spoke to Nick Shubin yesterday and I would assume after my conversation they will not be opening Labor Day. Liquor license check, soda dispensers being installed check. But they still have quite a bit of work to do for boat parking and finishing touches on the downstairs bar area. They've been working on the front entrance and cleaning that up. They also need to hire employees to run the place. It's been a very slow process that they did not anticipate. He didn't want to give me another date that would come and pass. He felt it best to go there personally and talk with Jim Shubin who is there at the location running the job. We will post an update after we meet with Jim.

rivermobster
08-07-2013, 11:18 AM
Hopefully the snowbirds will get to enjoy it!

rivergames
08-07-2013, 11:31 AM
Hopefully the snowbirds will get to enjoy it!

Us year round boaters will enjoy it this fall/winter if she opens up :action-smiley-035:

rivermobster
08-07-2013, 01:28 PM
Us year round boaters will enjoy it this fall/winter if she opens up :action-smiley-035:

Right there with ya on that one. :thumbup:

dj bill
08-07-2013, 01:30 PM
when its open,im riding the bike out there with some friends to support.during the week.boat or no boat ! whats 3 hours one way anyway.lol

thanks wendy !

WESTERNAERO
09-26-2013, 11:31 AM
Update? Are they still working on this, or has it been abandoned?

Wendi
09-26-2013, 11:41 AM
Update? Are they still working on this, or has it been abandoned?
I will get you an update.... There is not way it is abandoned, I'm just sure they are taking there time now because summer to them is over.

Wendi
09-26-2013, 11:43 AM
UPDATE: It's not open yet! haha, j/K

WESTERNAERO
09-26-2013, 11:49 AM
Very funny.....:spanks:

SBS933
09-26-2013, 11:54 AM
UPDATE: It's not open yet! haha, j/K That is so Fucked Up Man ! DAMN

WESTERNAERO
10-01-2013, 10:49 PM
UPDATE: It's not open yet! haha, j/K

Well, what's the verdict?

HB Vic
10-02-2013, 06:45 AM
We'll cruise over this weekend and check it out

WESTERNAERO
10-02-2013, 09:08 AM
We'll cruise over this weekend and check it out

I'll just do that then, smartguy.:D

Wendi
10-02-2013, 09:13 AM
I'll just do that then, smartguy.:D
He meant "We Will" cruise by there LOL!!! I have a call into Nick Shubin.

WESTERNAERO
10-02-2013, 09:17 AM
He meant "We Will" cruise by there LOL!!! I have a call into Nick Shubin.

Haha, I'm either getting old or I jackoff too much, I'm going blind. Didn't see the ' in We'll. :lmao:lmao:lmao

Wendi
10-02-2013, 09:28 AM
Haha, I'm either getting old or I jackoff too much, I'm going blind. Didn't see the ' in We'll. :lmao:lmao:lmao

Wear your googles :realitycheck:

WESTERNAERO
10-02-2013, 09:39 AM
Wear your googles :realitycheck:

Googles? or goggles? or beer goggles? Nah, that's the rib-fat suckers' job.

Wendi
10-02-2013, 09:44 AM
Googles is slang for eye glasses LOL!! EWWW "rib-fat sucker".....:puke:

svlperry
10-21-2013, 06:10 PM
What's going on with this did it open or not. Wendi can u pm me shubin phone number got a friend that knows him from the old days and lost contact with him and she is trying to get ahold of him again


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SBS933
10-21-2013, 07:20 PM
Jeez, I'll be in AA before they open the doors. Comon already

WMC
10-21-2013, 07:59 PM
Jeez, I'll be in AA before they open the doors. Comon already Me too. Will get an update to you all tomorrow. svlperry I will PM you Nick's number as well. Wendi

Wendi
02-17-2014, 06:19 PM
http://www.sundancesaloonaz.com/

Looks like they are preparing to open

HB Vic
02-17-2014, 06:46 PM
I enjoyed looking at the old photos.

nowski
02-17-2014, 07:48 PM
The old pictures brought back some great memories. I started going there in the mid 70's. My buddies parents had a place across the river, I believe it was Echo Lodge. We use to swim across the river to go to The Sundance not thinking how dangerous it really was. We even use to hang in the old tent in the mid 80's if my memory is correct. One of my favorite places in Parker was The Rock Palace, does anyone remember this place??? The craziest place by far to camp in Parker IMO was The Ah Villa... Those were some crazy times in my life...

boatnam1
02-17-2014, 08:05 PM
I hit rock palace, i remember seeign snowman play there kind of a kiss spin off....Ah villa was rowdy and fun....

rioracr
02-18-2014, 08:02 AM
the first time to Ah Villa was early 70's and the place was packed, the line to get in ended at the RoadRunner driveway, and what happen there noone would believe ya unless they were there.........:biggrin: :omg: :thumbsUp:

RyanPartridge
05-22-2014, 01:01 PM
Any news on the Saloon?

Looks like it's still getting cleaned up...

ColeBoater
05-22-2014, 01:49 PM
Any news on the Saloon?

Looks like it's still getting cleaned up...

I read that it will be back open tomorrow 5/23/14.

Stainless
05-22-2014, 06:54 PM
Great memories from the glory days of Sundance. It's surreal to hear of people that frequented Sundance in the'80's and '90's that you never met and then post their experiences 25 years later on the Internet that Al hadn't invented yet.


CH3NO2

HB Vic
05-22-2014, 07:40 PM
I hope they open and I wish them all the luck in the world. I know they've worked hard to get the place open and I'm sure they spent a ton of cash in the process. Hopefully it will all work out well for everyone.

ColeBoater
05-23-2014, 08:08 AM
I hope they open and I wish them all the luck in the world. I know they've worked hard to get the place open and I'm sure they spent a ton of cash in the process. Hopefully it will all work out well for everyone.

Guess everyone will know at 12:00pm today. That is when they are supposed to open! Hope to see some pics of people there today.

SFV2RVR
05-23-2014, 08:39 AM
Guess everyone will know at 12:00pm today. That is when they are supposed to open! Hope to see some pics of people there today.

Sundance Facebook post stated it was opening at 5pm today! 👍

CampbellCarl
05-23-2014, 08:47 AM
Sundance Facebook post stated it was opening at 5pm today! ��

Hopefully the breakfast burritos will still be served.....RD will need some breakfast about then.....

SFV2RVR
05-23-2014, 09:16 AM
Hopefully the breakfast burritos will still be served.....RD will need some breakfast about then.....

I'm sure RD will be drinking plenty of Beer-itos while he's there! Lol

HB Vic
05-25-2014, 10:32 PM
So did they open??


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Mrs.K034
05-25-2014, 10:53 PM
So did they open??


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No! They are still up for sale and still working on it when we drove by yesterday.

CampbellCarl
05-26-2014, 09:29 AM
Well, there are pix of it open on other sites......and on FB

spike morelli
05-26-2014, 01:39 PM
I remember the bartenders having this device on the bar that they would place two cans of beer under ( usually upside-down , so they didn't have to mess with a pull-tab), then punch open the cans in one motion. At certain times of the day, beer was a two-for-one special, and they were doing "land office' business with the beer special. The late sixties/early seventies were one heck of a good time there. Good people, really bitchin' boats, music everywhere. I have a story which includes the Sundance.....One particular afternoon I took my Dad's hydro upstream to meet some friends already at the Sundance. Just before I came around the bend to have Sundance in view, I stood on the throttle, and roared wide open past the Sundance, knowing the place would be packed. I was 18 or 19. After passing the place, I turned around and went back and idled up to the dock, and tied up. Figuring that all eyes would be on me, wondering who this young throttle jockey was, I started walking across the dock, chest out, like the cock-o-the-walk. A second later my right foot found a mossy spot on the dock, and I bounced down on my ass and went into the water. I don't know if anyone laughed...I sure would have. I got out of the water and got back on the dock and walked in, butt full of algae and having just had eaten humble pie. Oh well...so much for being Mr. Big Shot! Beer please...

HB Vic
05-26-2014, 01:48 PM
Well, there are pix of it open on other sites......and on FB

On rdp? Will and Wendi no doubt. That's cool. Glad they opened after all.


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Mrs.K034
05-26-2014, 02:01 PM
Well, there are pix of it open on other sites......and on FB

If they did, then they must have opened after we went by, they had all kinds of construction equipment and all locked up Saturday morning. If they really are open, we will be stoked! Been waiting for years! 😜

mouzer
05-26-2014, 02:01 PM
damn spent alot of summers there hangin out and drag raceing in front as people watched...............the 70.s at the river..great times good times.......all went down the crapper.....with all the ....jet skiis.wake board boats and boats over 24 ft.............

Bobby V
05-26-2014, 02:24 PM
If they did, then they must have opened after we went by, they had all kinds of construction equipment and all locked up Saturday morning. If they really are open, we will be stoked! Been waiting for years! Yes they are open. The reviews that I have read haven't been great.

Mrs.K034
05-26-2014, 02:34 PM
Yes they are open. The reviews that I have read haven't been great.

That sucks, I'm sure once they get everything done, it will be different. 😃

riverbound
05-27-2014, 06:52 PM
I went in twice over the weekend. They were open but have a ton of work to do to make it where people will stay and have multiple drinks. Both times it was one beer and out for my crew.


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HB Vic
05-27-2014, 07:54 PM
I went in twice over the weekend. They were open but have a ton of work to do to make it where people will stay and have multiple drinks. Both times it was one beer and out for my crew.


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Hope they get it all worked out. I think it has potential.


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Mrs.K034
05-27-2014, 07:58 PM
Hope they get it all worked out. I think it has potential.


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X3! Love hearing all the old stories about that place! And there are plenty of them to go around!

SBS933
05-28-2014, 12:33 PM
Wasn't much there to stay for, we went to foxes and hung out. watched a Birthday boy put down 4 fireballs down at a time, then chase it with a beer. He did this 3 or 4 times before we left and he was headed for lights out status.

riverbound
05-29-2014, 07:25 PM
Hope they get it all worked out. I think it has potential.


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Me too.


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ColeBoater
09-11-2014, 05:31 PM
http://orangecounty.craigslist.org/bfs/4657593790.html

Stainless
09-11-2014, 06:00 PM
http://orangecounty.craigslist.org/bfs/4657593790.html

Hmm, wonder if it's worth $2.9M? Would you keep renovating or start over?


CH3NO2

Stainless
09-11-2014, 06:01 PM
http://orangecounty.craigslist.org/bfs/4657593790.html

CB, didn't mean to quote you, it was a general response to the masses .


CH3NO2

ColeBoater
09-11-2014, 06:03 PM
CB, didn't mean to quote you, it was a general response to the masses .


CH3NO2
No worries. I think it is a good deal for $2.9mill. I would tear down and start over.

riverrunner1984
09-11-2014, 06:54 PM
I'm thinking "Hotboat bar and grill on the Parker strip" has a nice ring to it!

Stainless
09-11-2014, 06:55 PM
I'm thinking "Hotboat bar and grill on the Parker strip" has a nice ring to it!

Yup, I almost posted the same thing. :D


CH3NO2

riverrunner1984
09-11-2014, 06:57 PM
Yup, I almost posted the same thing. :D


CH3NO2

After all it could be Vic's part time home/part time job lol.

Stainless
09-11-2014, 06:59 PM
After all it could be Vic's part time home/part time job lol.

...and HB members get happy hour pricing all night long. ;)


CH3NO2

riverrunner1984
09-11-2014, 07:00 PM
...and HB members get happy hour pricing all night long. ;)


CH3NO2

And complimentary fireball shots!
I like where we're going with this...

riverrunner1984
10-06-2014, 03:17 PM
I'm thinking "Hotboat bar and grill on the Parker strip" has a nice ring to it!

Yup, I almost posted the same thing. :D
CH3NO2

Doesnt look like it is going to be "Hotboat bar and grill"
Someone from Long Beach bought it.....

http://www.parkerliveonline.com/2014/10/06/sundance-sold/

Stainless
10-06-2014, 03:37 PM
Shucks, I guess we'll be paying full price for drinks. 😒


CH3NO2

HB Vic
10-06-2014, 03:40 PM
Yeah my quicken loan didn't go through. I'm beside myself :D

Stainless
10-06-2014, 04:31 PM
Yeah my quicken loan didn't go through. I'm beside myself :D

Should have went for a payday or vehicle title loan, they'll take anyone depending on how far you're willing to bend over. 😉


CH3NO2